Needing help re: virginity and relationships

I would seek some help in how to establish relationships. I don't mean to be cruel or anything, but someone sondetermined to have sex, even to the degree that they would consider ending thier life is in need of help. I think if you got to talk things out with someone you may get some feedback that is helpful.

I don't know you that well, but I think sex is just masking another basic need, and that is the need to feel loved, cared about and feeling like you are accepted. To have meaningful relationships that bring purpose to your life. I can imagine the emotional burden that would place on a person, and I too would question if life has any meaning.

Speaking from personal experience, I never learned the skills as a child that I need to be able to make connections with people. Neglect/family issues that I don't need to go into. But my point is sometimes we never learned how to do some of life's simpliest things like make a connction with someone and develop a relationship. I struggled for a long time, as a young child to being shy and withdrawn, to a depressed teen that could barely cope. Eventually things got so bad I had to make improvements in my life. To take care of basic needs and develop a group of people that brought a sense of belonging. I'm not happy and estatic with life, but I am able to have some hope, worked on myself to be able to learn the skills I was never taught.

My advice is to try and build some self confidence. People general like people who are sure of what they want and achieve thier goals. Presenting yourself in a very pessimistic or constant self doubt, or putting yourself down is a turn off for a lot of people. Try to curb this feelings to just thoughts and not say things that make it seem like you aren't good enough or that they shouldn't care.

Figure out what you want from a relationship? Is it sex, love, a child, someone be there, a trophy wife. People get into relationships for a lot of reasons. Being unsure what you want can send of message of not being interest or the other person gets a vibe of they just aren't into me and gives up. Sometimes it is ok to be selfish and want things, like sex. You can ask for it, and all she can do is say No. When I say ask, I mean tell her what you want, not "can we have sex?". Not demanding, just tell her how you feel and what you would like.

If it is just sex you are after then there are ways to get that. For better or worse, there are women that will exchange sex for money. If it is just the act you are after that is a sure way to get it. I get the feeling that it is not sex, but the lack of a meaningful relationship that is causing you heart ache. I wish luck and hope you find a way to address this issue.

No, I use the forum to give advice, sometimes people don't like the advice I give and take it the wrong way, sometimes they get so offended they stalk me into other threads and start picking away at my posts in passive aggressive ways like you are doing.

You may want to re-read your own posts before you give me a lecture on the standards a poster should present on this forum.

Now leave it at that.

First off, I didn't realize my words could spark THIS much debate

Adam: what you said is correct. I don't want sex as a mere action but as the ultimate symbol of a loving and meaningful relationship. I simply am caught in the circular logic which states that those who haven't engaged in the act of sex (whether meaningful or not) at my age are pathetic little boys. I go into a date with a very positive attitude and keep the mood as light as possible, but apparently it isn't good enough.

I noticed you say you've brought up with some women you're a virgin and not with others. Did you notice any difference in attitude to the one's who you told and the ones you didn't? The best thing to do is not bring it up at all.

See -

So Adam got it and posted a long, thoughtful response addressing all the issues that were presented plus additional issues that he sensed existed, without being presented. You were giving advice that was unneeded - ak482 was clear on that. It is not that he did not like the advice - he tried to preempt that kind of "advice". So, I am sorry to say, but your ideas about fk buddies and paid sex, while brilliant in and of themselves, were derailing the thread (which is something you accused me of doing). Your last post is back on topic, though, so we can leave it at that.

Regarding passive aggressiveness - you just said that you wanted to hurt me, which means that you were being openly, actively aggressive (I am yet to read the openly aggressive language of yours). So why is passive aggressiveness wrong? You do not need to answer, that was just an observation in passing.

ak482, sorry about this.

To the original poster: so have you tried an olderish woman? Maybe the 20-somethings don't wanna hafta teach you or whatever, but an older woman might... you know...

Oh okay, so now you're trying to praise Adams post and at the same time put mine down. Hoping then I'll say something negative about Adam so then you can win your petty little point scoring exercise. Well I'm not falling for it. Adams post was very well thought out and intelligent, the complete opposite to everything you type. You're derailing the thread everytime you respond to me and I'm doing no better to be honest.

No I never said I wanted to hurt you, but then you know that really. Butthurt means you've got the grump about something. Actually maybe you don't know that. you don't seem to know a lot.

How old are you thinking? I'm generally comfortable with someone no more than 4/5 years older/younger?

I would definitely say do not tell her until you are about to have sex. It's not something any woman needs to know about you until you are literally just about to have sex with her. Technically, she doesn't even need to know then, but if you feel like you have to tell her, that would be the time.

Furthermore, I'm a little confused when you say you want a woman who will accept this part of you. Why does she have to accept it? Presumably after you find her, that part of you will soon go away. Nothing to accept.

It's obviously your decision, but I concur with those who have suggested you just have sex with basically anyone at this point and get the big elephant out of the room. Go to a bar and hit on drunk girls if you're not into prostitutes, although prostitutes can be pretty reasonably priced if you shop around and a lot of them will haggle.

I can think of the 19 year old me and the 27 year old me now and I have a different view on sex.

The 19 year old self was just getting to understand what sex is, and figuring out what it meant. I may have had a overly grandiose idea that sex was a pinanncle of romance. Yes in a way it is. The me now has a different view on it. Being married and having sex with the same person a lot, it isn't always about love, sometimes it is just about satsifying an urge. Maybe that is our brains yelling at us "MAKE BABIES". Sometimes it is full of passion, love and caring. Sometimes it gets wierd and you do things, and afterwards you say I'm not doing that again. Sometimes it just lacks passion and feels mechanical.

I've have had one sexual partner, so all of these experiences happened with the same women. Early 20's women may be a little jaded when it comes to sex, because they have so many guys trying to get in thier pants that thier first instinct is to say no.

I think a women in her 30's would have a much different view on it. Maybe a little more responsible and wants to find a deeper relationship that doesn't jump right to sex.

The only way you are going to find that meaningful relationship is to get out there and find someone that likes you and you like at the same time. You have to open yourself up and speak from your heart, fall in love. Get infatuated with someone that you wonder how you lived without them. It's not easy, but that is what we have to do.

Having prospects doesn't hurt either. A car, house and some nice clothes. Not vein, but like you carry yourself with pride. Not a requirement, but it tends to help. Its not really about money, but a statement that you are capable of putting forth effort and can reach your own personal goals.

Think of it this way. You only have to really find one person that digs you, and somewhere out there is a person that can look at you and fall in love. Yeah it sucks going on date after date, and coming out short handed, but you are just trying to find someone who is into.

If it is any glimmer of hope, my experience with my wife has told me that closer women get to thirty the more they want children. Since I dont have a ticking clock on when I can make sperm in can't really relate, but it is could be a motivation for some women who will willing to form.a relationship. Just food for thought.

No offense, but you don't sound that comfortable with hardly anybody. Have you seen the movie Harold and Maude? okay, after that - ANY age younger than maude will seem fine! It seems like it's more about removing restrictions, letting yourself go out and live life. Does your first have to be the last woman you sleep with? If the answer is that would be nice, then isn't there a virgins website? We should be able to find a creative solution to this. Btw, I'm a terrible matchmaker, just so you know! But a good problem solver.

AK, do forgive my off topic post here, but I feel it's in the best interest for you getting helpful advice in my attempting to try to reconcile the brewing little argument here. It would be unfortunate for your thread to be lost to this.

With the utmost respect Lycan, I don't think Hamster was trying to "score points" with anyone. Rather, I think Hamster's aim was to try to synthesize and understand your point. Clearly, Hamster differentiates from your point. Thus, I believe her post on page four wasn't a quip at you as much as it was to point out what she felt was a point that needed to be addressed. Ideally, had you two reached a consensus on AK's point, you would both be able to provide constructive points to AK in regards to his dilemma. Hamster, am I incorrect there?

Additionally, given the connotation given to "butthurt" and the high amount of LGBT posters here, I would recommend a different word choice. Granted, I know that's common internet parlance (lol I post on Gamefaqs...I get it, promise ), but I'm not sure it's a good fit here.

Additionally (speaking to Hamster), it may be in, on occasion, your best interest and the interest of others to just let some things go. Your attention to detail, while impressive, can occasionally prove problematic in that, on occasion, you can pick up details that aren't there, or aren't meant to be there. lol I myself have fallen "victim" to that on occasion.

Ultimately, my point isn't to call either one of you out or to pick any sort of side. Simply, I believe it's in the best interest of AK that the "debate," for lack of better word, be cut out, or taken away from AK's thread, as it isn't conducive to his dilemma or helpful to him.

Hugs to all,
Harley

Does this language seem similar to yours:

"Brush her hair back and let your fingertips hover over the surface of her skin."

?

Read up, this is a classic source and I am sure you will get the minimal know-how from reading - she must have answers for most of the questions that can possibly be asked since she has been around for decades, working in the field.

15 tips to make your girl cum (from Men's Health) | Betty Dodson with Carlin Ross

Thanks, Harley, all points taken. I have received similar feedback regarding attention to detail in performance reviews once, so you are in good company reiterating that. Thanks also for making us aware of the connotation of the LGBT-unfriendly term - I will erase the newly acquired word from my database. There are limits to vocabulary expansion. You are clearly quite attuned to sensitive connotations, because when I made a brief search online, I did not pick up on the distasteful part of it.

Back on track for AK482 suggesting a classic route (Betty Dodson) for - not quite "resolving" the issue, but "getting closer to resolving it and becoming more prepared to resolve".

OK, AK482, I think I have an idea if you do not mind being in a non-exclusive relationship. I have spent some time on a national polyamorous email list in the past two weeks, and the following has become apparent:

- people there write voluminous emails - nothing compared to the longest posts on here. Pages and pages and pages of text that consists of a mixture of the hardest GRE words and their own coinages

- people tend to be older, having tried other arrangements first

- people are very touchy-feely and hippie-like

- people are into everything "conscious" - eco-wise, sex-wise, everything-wise. Very conscious - conscious is the word that stands out the most.

- people are used to less-than-usual arrangements and configurations.

- people advertise on OKC as looking for love rather than casual sex (out of consciousness, as far as I have been able to guess)

- some believe in karma

So, I am thinking that if you sign up:
Ohio Valley Polyamory Network

and write an email (however long) with an introduction that openly and honestly states the case, reiterating that you are looking for a conscious connection rather than casual sex, and that you have lots of gifts to share (you do), and leave it at that - I am pretty positive that out of all those people, there would be a kind soul or two, or more, who would want to improve their karma and/or have fun and/or develop a deep connection, and then it would be up to YOU to decide if you like the kind soul(s).

My main points in offering that are:

1) getting away from the societal rigidities - the people on the network will be much more open minded and accepting of all aspects of human sexuality, including, I would say, that of delayed sexual debut.

2) you are currently either turning off women by disclosing lack of experience or are withholding something by not disclosing - either way is bad. If you post an open and honest introduction, you will not be lying so you will not be burdened by the weight of your under-disclosures.

Finally, people who identify as polyamorous do not necessarily have many partners - they identify in a philosophical sense, and many happen to have one partner or even none, and still identify, as a matter of principle, so it is not the case that anybody who responds to you would have an entourage of lovers. Not at all.

So think about it - since your situation is non-standard, a non-standard approach may be the order of the day.

Finally, in terms of learning the know-how, I bet some of those people would be a supreme source of know-how ranging from basic sex acts to Tantra, many-somes, meditative masturbation, etc.etc (not that you want all of those fringe benefits - just stating that they might be available).

Not all the people on the network are old, though. But in general adding to your movie list after Hankster - The Graduate (1967) - IMDb

OP it comes down to this. You have these options.

1. Prostitutes/callgirls. You don't want that that's fine.
2. Sexual surrogate. Too expensive for you
3. Casual sex off the internet.
4. Hit on drunk girls at the bar.
5. Just keep trying your luck at the dating game.
6. Get some counselling
7. Maybe try one of those silly PUA courses.

Considering you don't want to do option 1, can't afford option 2, you don't seem to have the confidence for option 3 4 or 5. And option 7 may get you laid but you want more then just sex.

Your best bet would be to choose option 6. Because you say you want sex and you don't want to be a virgin, but as was mentioned by someone else, it seems like a more underlying problem. If it was purely about sex you can get that.

It's not just about sex though. You do come across as someone who maybe has self-esteem or lack confidence. A good psychotherapist or counsellor could help with that. If you're contemplating suicide over this then it's a concern and you need to find out more about yourself over why this whole thing is such a big issue for you.

I will say, it's your life and you can do what you want and choose to live how you want. But as things stand, it's not working out for you and things probably won't change unless you try something different. I think just going on dates and hoping to get sex and love with that isn't working and the way things are going it may never work.

Sorry I did not explore it enough before recommending. Betty Dodson is an extremist who equates male circumcision with FGM. Take her with a grain of salt - probably most of what she writes is good stuff, but not all - some stuff is extremist.

I am currently working with a therapist right now focusing on self-esteem issues and developing more self-worth and confidence. Right now it's more about me as a person than it is trying to figure out what I need to do to find happiness with another person. I'm also working on trying to not personalize things so much (as I mentioned in the original post, I view public displays of affection as middle fingers to me knowing I've never had that in my life or when people use '40-year old virgin' as a slur).

I have also taken the plunge and gone to a semi-casual hook-up site for people who are really interested in sex. However, the early indications don't seem so great since again the women want a man who knows his way around the bed. And I do want some physical attraction, not just settling for any female who would screw any guy because she's lonely too if she doesn't have some form of physical attraction to me.

Don't tell any of these women you're a virgin, I assume you haven't put that on your profile? If you're on a casual hook up site they won't suspect anyway. And if you do end up having sex with a woman from that site, even if you're terrible, (and let's be honest, almost everybody isn't very good their first time) chances are she won't kick you out of bed at least not before the deed is done.