How to bring back passion

hamster-bamster

I see. Can you explain to her, in rational terms and using numbers, that if she keeps a damn job and, consequently, does not have enough time to hunt down every little discount, she would be better off financially, in the end? Meaning, that she loses more via sitting home than she gains via getting the absolute lowest prices/bargains?

hamster-bamster

Sitting all day long, not getting sunlight, not getting exercise, not having any social interactions except with you, and not having orgasms will eventually make her depressed even if she currently does not meet the DSM criteria for depression.

Maybe you can impress on her that you need sex for longevity, if all else has failed?

Benefits of Sex - Health - MensJournal.com (the studies are unclear on causality, so take them with a grain of salt).

High Treason

It is indeed the case that sex is not the only issue in our relationship. You were absolutely right that she has lost the passion for life, but she seems perfectly happy that way. The sex issue is one of the biggest wedges driving itself into our relationship, but close on its heals is the fact that she won't even go out to dinner with me or do anything normal people do. I'm only 35 years old, and I feel like I have the relationship of a 70 year old. I'm not content to just sitting around waiting to die. I don't want a girlfriend who waits at home for me while I live my life. I want someone to live life with me. Together.

Your last couple suggestions are very reasonable, but she doesn't listen to reason. I have long since stopped attempting to reason with her. I don't tend to think of her as particularly dumb... but I don't know if she's incapable of reason or just simply doesn't pay attention to me.

hamster-bamster

HT, I think you need to pose that to her and see how she responds:

"I'm not content to just sitting around waiting to die. I don't want a girlfriend who waits at home for me while I live my life. I want someone to live life with me. Together."

This is very eloquent, straightforward, and clear, and, it bypasses the rational side of things, so to the extent that she is incapable of reason, she might still be capable of comprehending your message in this form, because it is unequivocal and poignant.

If she does not respond to that (and, THAT is way more important than the calculations about wages vs. coupon savings), then I do not really know what you can do.

hamster-bamster

Betty Dodson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - not all 70 year olds stay home all day long.

Do not say the part about age to your gf - just say the part about your wanting to have a gf who lives your life with you - it would be clear, concise, and on topic.

hamster-bamster

Had you not said what you said (on another thread) about the inability of your musician friends (males) to find suitable partners, I would have suggested that you try a relationship with a woman from your musician circles as another attempt at keeping your current relationship. Sex with random women in bars did not work out, but in general the gf was not super upset, nor changed her ways in response to your denouncing sex with random women, so maybe try a deeper relationship with somebody from your social circle? It would be, sort of, in-between what you want - meaningful monogamy - and what you did not like - sex with random women. A compromise.

adam_k

Someone doesn't have to outwardly show depression for them to be depressed. I just kept things inside a lot, even though I was really depressed. When it started causing problems in my marriage I finally told my spouse after a few years of struggling. She said she didn't realise it at the time, but afterwards when I told her she could piece it together. To me it sounds like she is withdrawing, that is a good indicator.

Depression is kind of a broad term and it could mean a lot of things to different people. On the low end it is a state of boredom. A type of monotony. Where you just kind of exist. Your not happy, but your not miserable. Just bored and kind of existing.

After that there is a state of sadness and hopelessness. You are completely withdrawn from most things. You lost interest in most areas of your life. Possibly consider that life is meaningless and contemplate suicide.

Beyond that there is apathy. You just give up on even caring. You don't do much in the way of personal hygine, extreme fatigue, excessive sleep, or very little sleep. You are completely disinterested in everything. Even self preservation is diminished.

There are levels of depression, and she doesn't have to be ready to jump off of a bridge to be affected.

It sounds like you want things to work out and are stuck. That is because you sort of are. You can't make her care about the relationship. You can voice your concerns and try to talk and tell her you are unhappy. She can either address the issues or not. If she doesn't you have to decide if the relationship is worth it to you.

It sounds like she doesn't want to fix anything, or is unwilling. If I were in your position I would be honest with her and tell her all of the things that are bothering you. If she is unwilling to address any issues then tell her you will leave the relationship.

It could be depression, or it could be she just doesn't care that much and is content in how she is living her life. If that is the case you have to decide if that works for you or not and make your decision. Unfortunately we can't make anyone be the person we want them to be. We eventually have to accept who the person is and he happy with that. You can't make her care or be passionate about your relationship, that has to be her decision. Good luck to you. It sounds like you are in a delicate situation.

__________________
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy."

anneo59

Is she maybe becoming more unemployable??? Definitely an issue these days, unfortunately!

anneo59

great link!!!!!

anneo59

Can relate, for sure, Adam!

hamster-bamster

HT,

I think you should stop talking about sex altogether, and instead have her focus on using physiological means to get out of her depression or whatever you call the state she is in. Then if she improves her physiological response, you can perhaps hope that she can get some drive back.

So: she will need a regular sleep schedule, with Melatonin at night and going outside in a sleeveless top and shorts, wearing a hat and sunglasses, each morning to be in the sun for 20-30 minutes, moderate coffee consumption before 3PM, no sitting in front of the computer (she should be on her tummy on the floor or couch), limit the total hours in front of the screen, in bed by midnight at the latest, getting up same time each day, preferably on her own without an alarm clock. Sounds draconian, but she has basically self-imprisoned, so she needs to get herself out of her current state.

And if she gets better, then maybe resume your conversations about sex, since, right now, she is, basically, half-dead, and you cannot expect much passion from a person who is half-dead - you might as well try getting blood out of a stone.

hamster-bamster

She is actually right .

Not that she means it that way, but she is right - you have a problem with triage/prioritization.

Imagine yourself a nurse or an MD working a shift in ER, triaging new arrivals - imagine some big, understaff county hospital.

So a woman is admitted with breathing difficulties, abnormally low pulse, dangerously low blood pressure, and, non-existent libido.

What would you treat first?..

It is unfair to you that you have found yourself in the position of her ER nurse, aka her only contact with the world around her and her only hope for improvement, and you did not ask for that status in any way, but rather, wanted to be her boyfriend, but the reality is that there is nobody else to help her but you.

anneo59

Hamster-bamster, as a woman, I really tend to agree w this, as I know that many other issues take precedence over the sex, so those ought to be dealt with first. Then, things have a better chance of falling into place, more smoothly. Hub doesn't always see this though, I have found!!! We sure are two different "animals" as well as beings!

High Treason

Since I am not a doctor, nurse, or therapist, I guess what you are suggesting is that I just leave her because things aren't going to get any better and there's nothing I can do about it.

hamster-bamster

Not to that extreme.

What I am suggesting is as follows:

suppose that mental health were taken seriously in Korea (counterfactually, according to OP).

What would you expect from a doctor/nurse/therapist who takes MH seriously?

You can expect medications from a doctor/nurse but not a therapist.

You can also expect a doctor/nurse/therapist to advise your gf to use non-pharmacological tools to get out of her depression (exercise, sun exposure, etc.)

Since it is not rocket science to - exercise, walk in the sun, etc. - and the advice of a (non-existent in Korea) doctor/nurse/ therapist to use those tools can be predicted, you might as well suggest them to her. You cannot prescribe medications but you can tell her to go outside and spend 20-30 minutes in the sun.

And if that fails, I think there is nothing you can do - she appears resigned to leading a non-life as a hermit who plays video games.

PS Since she responds to your sexual overtures by citing her being tired, you can try:

1) make those overtures first thing in the morning rather than at bedtime, and/or
2) explain to her that all you want (I assume this is true) is basically advanced hugging - you do not expert cardio marathons from her, nor do you expect sex in unusual, contortionist positions, nor will you spank her tush to the point of her being unable to sit on the tush and play her video games (mentioning that since playing video games seems to be one of the only two things that she likes - that, and extreme couponing). So... what is that big of deal? I just do not get it. I mean, there is an undeniable gender difference that will not go away with technological progress - men do need an erection/arousal for intercourse and women do not. So, OK, she is not aroused, that is fine. But, it is not that she is actively repulsed by you - right? If she cares enough to kiss you in a non-sexual fashion, that means that she is not repulsed by you. So... what is such a big deal with letting you hug her a bit more, with a few thrusts added for good measure? Or, would you not engage in intercourse unless she is actively passionate with you? What exactly is the problem?

Unless I am missing something obvious... You are her long-term boyfriend and she wants to live with you and wants it badly. So what is the big deal? If she allows you some advanced hugging with a bit of thrusting, the experience will be neutral for her - NOT NEGATIVE, but neutral. So there will be what is called a "Pareto improvement" in Economics - you will be better off and she will be no worse off, and overall there will be an improvement. Why would not she do something that will make you better off without making her worse off is beyond me. She has not been abused nor raped so it is not as if she were triggered somehow.

I have a friend whose wife did not want to have sex for a year and half after the birth of their only son. He complained to me a lot, over email. It seemed utterly ridiculous to me but at least his wife had a POINT. She was, indeed, too tired (she was working full time and he was a WAHD - work-at-home-dad), so she did not want sex because for her sex had to be earth-shattering. Earth-shattering or none at all. To have an earth-shattering experience, she had to be well rested. It seemed a little non-generous and a little selfish to me - he would have liked a quickie without high expectations - but she insisted on "Earth-shattering or none at all". In other words, she was a perfectionist to an extreme degree in the realm of human sexuality. I think the point was weird, but at least VALID. And your gf does not seem to have any point at all.

I am sorry this seems to lead to a dead-end situation for you...

High Treason

Believe me, Hamster, I have tried suggesting those types of things over and over again. I know it would be good for her to get out, but short of dragging her kicking and screaming outside, I have no idea how to do it.

hamster-bamster

I am sorry. The only thing that I can suggest is posting on

http://forums.psychcentral.com/anxiety-panic-phobias/

asking for help. On that forum, there are people who confine themselves to their homes and apartments. But at least they WANT out! They may not get out, but they want to, and when they do get out for a quick stroll around the block or to buy milk from their local grocery store, they post their victories and congratulate one another on their achievements (which may seem small but are not small). So they have a desire to get out that your gf seems to lack. But ask them - maybe some of them, at some point, did not have any desire to go outside of their little cells. I think you might get more help from them because the issue is not narrowly sexual but broadly "somebody has lost any passion for life".

hamster-bamster

The weirdest thing is that your gf preferred that you not sleep with other women. Not strongly preferred, but sort of preferred (per OP in this thread).

It is extremely weird and irrational for somebody who does not care about living to the point of never seeing sunlight to give a damn about the behavior and choices of people around her.

hamster-bamster

OK, so all you need is advanced hugging without special effects, confirmed. So what exactly is "tiring" in that for a woman? A woman does not even need to be awake for that.

High Treason

When I wrote the above, I was talking about the actual sex part. I like a lot of foreplay before that. But yes, at this point I would take what I can get. If she just laid there reading a book with her legs spread at least it would be better than nothing.

But, that has already come up several times as well and there wasn't even a real discussion about it, just rejection. I may have to come to terms with the fact that she's just really selfish.