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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 12:50 AM
  #41
is this about the

'if she wears that she is asking to be raped' line of reasoning???
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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 12:58 AM
  #42
Quick Reply - to one in particular.

......................................... one can dress to look gooooood (or) sexy with out looking smutty.
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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 08:06 AM
  #43
I love you all , easy and hard. If someone waited a month to kiss me i would be feeling long before that that she has no interest.
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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 01:22 PM
  #44
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
heyjoe said:
I love you all , easy and hard. If someone waited a month to kiss me i would be feeling long before that that she has no interest.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes I agree............. what do YOU MEN say? ............ but now lets face it - having sex with some one is a lot different than kissing them.

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 03:14 PM
  #45
Yeah, but "smutty" is an extremely subjective opinion. I would guess that 99% of women who dress "smutty" think they're just doing a good job dressing "sexy".

And for those of us who dress "tastefully"... those in the fashion industry roll their eyes at our lack of taste. Have you ever seen the "scrunchy" episode of Sex in the City? That comes to mind.

"Smutty" is in the eye of the beholder.

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 03:46 PM
  #46


From the men I know, they don't want women who dress "barely." Of course, I'm talking about clean-cut, hard working professional men. They also say that they fully respect any lady who doesn't even kiss on the first few dates!

Now, for me, I guess it's the type of person I'm looking for...that person I represent to them... that's how I act and dress anyway. I get the correct response from the men this way.

Perhaps it's what you're trolling for that determines the kind of bait you use?

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 06:41 PM
  #47
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
is this about the

'if she wears that she is asking to be raped' line of reasoning???

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Not at all. What I said has nothing to do with rape. What I meant was, if you dress provocatively, don't be surprised if men hit on you more. This is not because "you deserve it," or you're intentionally trying to tell these guys you want sex. What I'm saying is, our society is such that men think women who dress sexually want sex, and feel more comfortable to approach them. It should not be this way; people should know that dressing a certain way doesn't mean you're seeking a specific type of relationship.

In no way am I talking about a man thinking he has a right to force a woman (or man) into sex. That's another issue from what I'm saying here.

But back to the subject of how people view how you dress, and how hypocritical it is. Women who dress to emphasize their bodies are seen as "sluts"...even if they're not. I'm not saying change the way you dress, because I don't think you're wrong. I'm saying, Just be aware of how society views you, so you can be prepared. I think being prepared means being able to speak up and tell these jerks who judge you that their interpretation of why you dress this way or what they think you want is a) wrong, and b) none of their business. Most people still see a man in a business suit and think he's a more honest man than the guy wearing a leather jacket and torn jeans.

I hope that's more clear. what do YOU MEN say?

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 06:49 PM
  #48
I hope this isn't presumptuous, but from what I know about Maven and Alexandra, I'd say you both are probably on the same page about this.

I think that a lot of women who dress provocatively do so because they are misguided about how society interprets it.

Good example about the guy in the business suit, btw.

Good post in general, Maven, as always.

I just remembered a stand-up skit that a comedian did - I think it might have been Dave Chappelle (although generally, I don't care for his humor so I don't know why I would have seen this). It was something along these lines:
---------------------------------------
What if I got a policeman's uniform and went around wearing it. Then someone got mugged and they ran up to me going, "Go chase that dude! He robbed me! Help me!"

I would say, "What? You thought I was a policeman?! That's crazy! I'm just wearing CLOTHES! CLOTHES don't make me a policeman!"

If you don't want us to think you're a hooker, ladies, don't wear the uniform.
------------------------------------

I don't remember how it went exactly, but it seems like an appropriate anecdote in this thread. While it is the exact OPPOSITE principle as mine, he does make an interesting point.

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 07:07 PM
  #49
in response to the original questions

-about girls who are easily convinced to sleep with you?

it all depends, there’s easy, and then there’s easy, it doesn’t matter if they are dressed to the nines or mutton dressed has lamb if they want to sleep with you on the first date they will, if they don’t they wont,

when I first met my ex-wife we didn’t sleep together for a month, yet we saw each other everyday, spent most of the day together, and she brought me coffee in bed every morning to wake me up, granted we were both hospitalised, under section, but when we both got released the same day, the first thing we did was buy a carton of smokes and a box of condoms and the rest is history.

second q?

- how do you feel about girls who are HARD to get?

in one respect I like a challenge is the best way I can put this forward without sounding crass, I don’t always put out on the first date or even the second, im not playing hard to get, I just like to know what I am getting myself into first so to judge someone because they don’t put out on the first date is not a good idea has I do it myself.
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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 07:08 PM
  #50
Thanks, LMo. I've heard that skit, too, but I think it was Chris Rock.

Edit: Actually, I think you're right. I'm not a big fan of Dave Chappelle, either, but the more I think about it, I think it was he who did that skit. what do YOU MEN say?

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 07:09 PM
  #51
OT mellors, that could be the ending to a really good inpatient story I'm a thinkin' what do YOU MEN say? </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
granted we were both hospitalised, under section, but when we both got released the same day, the first thing we did was buy a carton of smokes and a box of condoms and the rest is history.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 07:14 PM
  #52
beginning of a nightmare more like sky, the situation in which we met should have been a big clue to what i was setting myself up for, in this case love truley was blind
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Default Mar 02, 2007 at 07:16 PM
  #53
ah yes but what a movie ! ((((safe hugs))))

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Default Mar 14, 2007 at 08:55 PM
  #54
well first off......I've never had that problem...maybe thats a good thing.

Secondly- Hard to get.....thats fine, I'm madly in love with my wife because she's the greatest ! <font color="#880000"> </font>

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Default Mar 30, 2007 at 09:33 AM
  #55
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
(i guess the notion is that a girl should put out for them and nobody else. if a girl doesn't put out for them then she is a 'hold-out' or is 'frigid'. if a girl puts out for others - as well as them - then she is a 'slut' or a 'pro' or whatever)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

As I was reading this I got all my feelings of shame and guilt back full force. I was brought up traditionally as well, so for me to never have waited more than just a couple of dates before climbing into bed with someone...ugh! It also reminded me of something a nurse asked me- she wanted to know how much my BPD has influenced my ?promiscuity. I had never thought about that before, esp as this is a fairly new diagnosis for me, but there could be some corelation between the 2.. I do feel like a real 'slut' tho because of my behaviours. Also, IRL my male friends used the word 'slut' to answer the 1st question, altho in their double standards (or possibly their hormone-driven minds?!) that appeared to be what at least 3 of them were wanting..

Quote- a woman who dresses like a slut and goes out and wants men to stare at her-THINKS
"what the man will think of me? how i make him like me?"
she is not being her real self. a real women is modest. a woman who has enough self respect. esteem adn confidence.

I had always considered those women who dared to dress that way as ppl who have gd self esteem- imo they would need to in order to walk down the street wearing those type of clothes.

And just as an aside to mellors- i met my ex in the same situation...as you said it should have been fair warning as to how things would go- nightmare-wise!!- but love (or what I thought was love) is blind. Could be a great topic though... how have relationships turned out between those who have met in a psych ward..... The success stories and the others...

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Default Mar 31, 2007 at 05:16 AM
  #56
I know plenty of women who dress modestly who have low self-esteem. And, as I've said, dressing provocatively doesn't mean a woman has low self-esteem.

A woman can dress provocatively and think she looks good for herself. It doesn't mean she doesn't want to appeal to men, but it doesn't mean she isn't appealing to herself, too. A woman doesn't have to like modest clothing to like herself.

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Default Mar 31, 2007 at 11:35 AM
  #57
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Maven said:
I know plenty of women who dress modestly who have low self-esteem. And, as I've said, dressing provocatively doesn't mean a woman has low self-esteem.

A woman can dress provocatively and think she looks good for herself. It doesn't mean she doesn't want to appeal to men, but it doesn't mean she isn't appealing to herself, too. A woman doesn't have to like modest clothing to like herself.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

what do YOU MEN say? I tend to dress in a way that other people might deem "provocative." I dress tastefully, IMO, but I like to show off my curves and my physical assets. I always have had high self-esteem. I like who I am. I know I'm intelligent and interesting and funny. My body doesn't define who I am, but it's part of me. I like the shape of my body and I don't want to hide it. I feel like I'm celebrating who I am in the way I dress. I wear clothes that I like and express my creativity -- the colours and fabrics and cuts that I find aesthetically-pleasing. My skirts are usually tight, I almost always wear high heels and most of my tops are rather low-cut. When I was working in a very conservative office and had to be more covered up, I didn't feel like myself. I felt like I was trying to be someone other than who I am.

My mum is the same way. She was often criticized cruelly by women who went to her church (she goes to a very conservative church). She wouldn't wear low-cut stuff to church. She would go out of her way to dress conservatively at church and church-related functions but because of her figure, she can look sexy in a turtleneck and an ankle-length skirt. Other women in the church would say nasty things about her because of it. My mum is far from being a slut, though. She has been married to my dad since 1964 and he's the only man she has ever been with. She has a lovely figure, she works hard on keeping herself slim and fit and healthy and she likes the way she looks and sees no reason to conceal her figure in loose, unflattering clothes. She is very religious and truly believes that "the body is the temple" and that's why she takes such good care of her "temple" and isn't ashamed of it.

P.S. In my new job, I'm allowed to dress the way I want to dress and that makes me enjoy my job more. I feel like myself. I have to say I find it incredibly gratifying when I meet new people professionally, and I can tell they're immediately jumping to the conclusion that I'm a brainless blonde cutie. It feels really good when they get to know me better and hear what I have to say and I see them realizing there's much, much more to me. Looks can be deceiving and it's not a good idea to judge a book by its cover.

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Default Mar 31, 2007 at 12:37 PM
  #58
I can tell that you're one of the women I'd see on the street and be insanely jealous of! what do YOU MEN say?

I'm not so happy with my body; I have lumps where I don't want them. Others tell me I seem very confident, and most of the time I am. I tend to wear lower cut shirts, because my bust-line is a feature that I do like about myself. I don't let things "hang out" but I do like to accentuate the part of my body that I do like. I find that when my clothes fit well but not too tight, that I feel better about my body image.

I am definetly struggling right now though with my body image. After several failed attempts with some of my male friends who are now dating skinny girls, its hard to see that someone might find me attractive. I know that everyone is different though. My ex loved an old baseball type shirt that I have. He always said I looked sexy in a t-shirt and jeans as well as my tank tops that are a little more revealing. I try to remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder when I get dressed to go out. I mainly dress for myself, and wear what I feel pretty in.

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Default Mar 31, 2007 at 12:55 PM
  #59
First of all, I have seen a photo of you and I think you're beautiful. You remind me of a young Ali McGraw (in Love Story).

Beauty definitely is in the eye of the beholder, though. It took me a long time to be okay with the way I look. I would love to be one of those waifish, skinny girls, but I never will be and I have accepted that. Even when I was very sick and extremely thin, I still had a big butt and sturdy legs. Apparently, I come from hardy, peasant stock. I'm a solid girl. what do YOU MEN say? There are men who love curves and those are the men who will be attracted to women like us.

When I was in my early 20s, a boyfriend told me I had the biggest arse of any women he had ever dated. I was devastated... and then I found out that he meant it as a compliment. LOL. I have also come to accept that "leg men" will never be attracted to me, because my calves could be better described as "cows." They belong on a male rugby player. That's why I wear knee-high leather boots when I wear a short skirt. My "cows" are not a feature I like to show off.

I have terribly crooked teeth (think Jewel or Patricia Arquette) because my parents couldn't afford braces , but I have learned to accept them as something that gives me "character." what do YOU MEN say? It's all about how we perceive ourselves and making the most of what we have. I still criticize my looks more than I want to, but I'm much more accepting of and comfortable with my appearance than I was in my 20s. It takes a whole lot of positive self-talk to get to the point of accepting and liking the way we look... and I've found that men are often drawn to women who exude confidence. It's not always the most "typically beautiful" girl who gets the guy. what do YOU MEN say?

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Default Apr 01, 2007 at 02:49 AM
  #60
That is so true, Juliana! Confidence is one of the most important factors of beauty. The other (and this is my opinion) is good skin. Women with good skin can have other flaws and still be considered beautiful. I don't have great skin, unfortunately, but it's something I've observed.

Recently, a guy on a message board I visit said he's attracted to non-white women, because white women "don't age well." He said you see our veins more, and the flaws, as we age. It really hurt me, even though I have no reason to care what he thinks. I have no interest in him as a boyfriend (plus I already have one), and I think he has a wife. But I think his view reflects society, and I've been affected by society. I don't think I'm bad-looking, although I looked better younger, and my weight is a big issue in my low self-esteem. When I was thin (and young), guys whistled at me. So others obviously thought I was cute.

I am very unhappy with my looks and my health risks, plus not being in shape. I want to be athletic and of a healthy weight. I don't want to be skinny; I want some muscle, but not too much. The problem is getting myself to do what's necessary to achieve this. Part of that problem is my OCD. I hate sweating; it really worsens my OCD.

I'm babbling. I don't mind having a large butt, as long as it's not too big (to me). I think women look better with curves. And one man likes big butts so much, he wrote a rap song about it! ROFL!

I'm sorry your mom was treated that way. It's like some girls in school who develop large breasts. Even if they cover them up and never have sex or date, they get the reputation of "slut." The same goes for grown women.

If I had a good body ("hot" would be better what do YOU MEN say?), I'd show off some of it. My taste isn't overly revealing, but I'm not going to cover it all up, either! I'd show some cleavage, hike up those puppies, and wear short skirts. But not too much cleavage and not too short skirts (for me; I have no problem if other women, including women I'm hanging out with, want to bare much more). I also realized today, even in my current body, I feel so much sexier and better about myself in new clothes that are in that "new" shape, that fit well and haven't been stretched out and dulled, as clothes tend to do over time. (Of course, I don't wash clothes correctly, in that I don't separate them as much as I should, so that doesn't help keep my clothes nice.) I don't get new clothes often, and my mom usually buys them when I do get them, but I had a shirt (and I have another) that I hadn't worn yet, and I wore it today, and felt really good.

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