30 year old woman who is a virgin. Would be classed as a bisexual or lesbian?

Hi everyone,

Not entirely sure if anyone is going to relate to my situation or think I am bonkers but I am seeking clarification on whether my experiences would put me under the bisexual or lesbian label. Brace yourself for my story

I am a 30 year old woman who is has never been in an intimate or emotional relationship with a romantic partner. I have never kissed or touched someone before. This is because I have not wanted or cared enough for such experience. Naturally, I assume one would ask-well to figure out your sexual orientation you would need to know how you feel about both genders. When I interact with men I do notice a tendency to feel a "he's quite handsome and datebale" and when I interact with women if I look at them its more so "ohh, I wonder where she got that lovely outfit from". I draw from this very little because I don't care to be with any gender anyway.

The complexity of my issue and what sparked this thread is the curiosity to analyse the fact that for over 15 years one and off I have watched lesbian porn and erotic content and this influenced me to go off to masturbate by picturing thoughts in my head of making love to a woman. These women are made up women in my mind but have on occasions been women on tv and the sort. The access to erotic lesbian content I think started at around 14/15 and I was always turned off by straight porn as it was very aggressive and male centered.

I have also only ever achieved orgasm thinking of women. Whilst I have been aroused thinking of men due to the different sexual organs it became difficult to imagine how such an intimate encounter would feel.

Might also be noteworthy that around my teen years I was once chatting innocently to a teen girl and she asked if we could conduct a sexual chat (no pictures or videos just text/writing sexual thoughts down). I agreed and it lasted a few minutes and I never returned to it During this time, I never crushed or developed feelings for any girls in my school and social network and I went about my life.

One might then ask whats the point of unpacking this all now? Well, it seems because of the length of my lesbian porn,erotic content/masturbation/sexual thoughts/ orgasms and so on I genuinely felt that there should be some feelings I would feel for women I am around and have been around my whole life. What is extraordinary is that I have never felt any wish to actually go out and be with a woman in any real way (that is outside of just my mind). It seems any desire I feel for women is only in the context of my mind during which I usually have a stimulus (the porn) to act as inspiration for me to start thinking of things to get me sexually excited.

The only possible explanation I have managed to think of to explain why my feelings for women are only reserved to my mind and usually influenced by what I viewed via porn is that somehow my brain has wired from a early age the viewing of lesbian content with sexual thoughts and the sexual thoughts to orgasms and now I can simply think of a lesbian thought in my head and feel a sexual urge and yet this urge is simply contained in my mind and only during those moment when the urge arises. Outside of such context and even during there is no real flesh and bone woman that I have a wish to actually be intimate with. Isn't this strange?

Not expecting much as I know my situation is strange but any input would be great. I also don't know if I would be classed as bisexual or a lesbian for the 15 year long history I have had with lesbian PMO (porn, masturbation, orgasms)?

I have made a vow now to end the usage of porn (obviously it is a corrupt industry but also because it has taken a lot of time away from my life).

Welcome to pc. I don't think anyone can classify your sexuality except you. I think if you want to know more, exploration would be good. Go on some dates and see how you feel.

For what it's worth I don't see a problem with porn.

Cheers for the welcome TheSadGirl and I hope you are doing well.

I appreciate your insight. I find it common that people tend to see a lot of virgins as being in a somewhat limbo state in regards to their sexual orientation. For me, I am not in a limbo state and as highlighted in my post I have no wish to partake or engage in any form of romance with anyone. So my current situation is the only thing I can use to determine what my sexual orientation on as I will very likely never lose my virginity or be in a romantic companionship with anyone. I am not sex repulsed or out of options to date others, I simply do not care for it.

Due to the complexity of my situation, it might be best for me to consult some lgbtq sites and see if those from the community are able to help me better understand the definition of those labels for me so I can understand what label fits me best as currently this is quite an isolating experience though its not met with a negative feeling but as humans are social animals most do not feel at ease with not being related too.

Ohh and in regards to the porn, I got addicted and it messed my life up so I am staying away from it for good and also any form of masturbation. I wouldn't advocate these things for those who are susceptible to addiction.

Following from my last post, if anyone has any information on lgbtq/sexuality forums that have good insight/discussions around how one is able to understand what their sexual orientation is could you please share/link that information to me as I would like to find some of the answers I am looking for. Cheers!

The only person who can definitely say what your orientation is...is you.

Now, having said that, I know that it can be hard to pinpoint your sexual orientation, maybe even more so when you're not certain and you have no sexual experience to provide a little extra insight let's say.

From what you say about porn, that doesn't necessarily have to mean anything because women of all orientations watch lesbian and gay porn. Many women find straight porn a turn off because of the overtly demeaning, violent behavior in it or even just the general vibe of it, that is still demeaning and male gaze oriented, even if not overtly. Plus, many people, of any and all orientations, actually find the visual of both straight and queer porn arousing. So it could be that or it could be you're bisexual or a lesbian.

I'd say what can be more of an indicator are those dreams and what you imagine outside of watching porn. That does make me think it's likely you're not straight.

As you know, sexual orientation is on a scale so you can be anything in between straight and lesbian. For example you could be bisexual with a stronger preference for one or the other, you could be closer to straight or you could be a lesbian.

What's also something to take into consideration is if there's other issues that may be affection your feelings towards sex, relationships and orientation. This is something only you can know.

For ex, you could be asexual/aromantic and that's why you don't want sex with another person, which is perfectly fine. At the same time, it could also be that something in your past(it could be something clear or something small that you wouldn't imagine could have impacted you) has made you weary of men, sex, intimacy, being vulnerable with another person and so your brain keeps you safe by making you feel like you just don't want those things.

Much the same way, you could be bisexual or a lesbian and something like deeply internalized homophobia or fear of reprisal might be holding you back.

So, you see, there's a lot of possible nuances to consider, which only you can clear up.

Thanks for contirbuting to this discussion Entity06, both you and Sadgirl have been very helpful.

Your reply was also very insightful. Some of those labels I haven't come across before so will research them.

In regards to the part where you wrote:

"I'd say what can be more of an indicator are those dreams and what you imagine outside of watching porn. That does make me think it's likely you're not straight".

These were not dreams (as I understand dreams they are when one is asleep) rather yes indeed I did picture things in my head. The thing is though, most of the times this was after I watched the porn or erotic content so I don't think If I am being honest with myself that I can separate it from the influence of porn or erotic content. I often have used the porn/lesbian erotic content to stimulate me and that then lead to thinking of such lesbian encounters that I imagined myself taking part in. In contrast, I have had thoughts about men without the porn or any erotic content including romantic thoughts and they felt more real because it was thoughts that had no relationship at all to any outside erotic stimulus i.e. typically a normal day where I havent watched anything romantic or erotic and suddenly I had thoughts about dating and being intimate with a guy and being aroused. Interestingly when I think of men I do not imagine myself as a different person all the time, with the sexual thoughts I have about women that are often stimulated by porn/erotic content I am me but a different character (I take on a different personality, style of dress and even character). I have felt some of the thoughts I have had about men have felt more genuinely related to me because in some thoughts, not all, I was imagining myself as similar to the real me (similar hairstyle, similar clothing dress, similar personality) in a romantic scene with a guy.

I also am cool with calling myself bisexual or lesbian but I would then have to breakdown to others that I have not nor will ever date or be intimate with a woman. This is a feeling I know deep down in my gut because as highlighted quite a few times, the desire for women for the past 15 years on and off has for the most part (excluding the teen cyber sexual chat incident that happened once at 14) followed a pattern of stimulus (porn/erotic content)>Stimulus inspired me to think of making out with a woman>masturbation//orgasms>Any desires felt for a woman during stimulus and Masturbation have gone. The last stage I have underlined is where it has always ended. I can't make myself feel a desire to move it along and experiment or date a woman, there is nothing there. If this is what is means to be bisexual or a lesbian, I have no problem going by this definition and calling myself these labels.

If I am being honest, my question is less an emotional one (I know how I feel about both genders) and more a technical one (trying to understand sexual orientation labels and which one best describes my reality).I recognise I am very clear on what my feelings are. But what I am trying to grasp here is what defines bisexuality/being a lesbian? Is there a correct and agreed upon terms of whether it includes thoughts one has had on and off for 15 years assisted mostly of the times by stimulus (porn/erotic content) that one has no intention of actually going out and making real? This seems to be my question?

I seem stuck because almost everyone I have discussed with in person (mostly friends)has their own definition of what defines bisexuality/being a lesbian so how does one know what to define themselves if there is not an agreed term? How confusing is this whole seuality topic loool

Also believe me I am the last person on earth who would have internalized homophobia. I literally live on the fringe of society for being a non conformist anyway so being lgbt would only add more stripes to my already confident non conformist lifestyle. I also have no history of trauma to suggest I would have issues with intimacy. Being without a partner is not harming me in anyway. I love being single and yes if I ever change and desire more, then sure, why not,, I'll go with whoever makes me happy irrespective of their gender. But that might never happen and I prefer to just work on my reality right now and grasp some key understanding of my identity that for too long has made me feel quite isolated in my experience.

Hey, I wrote a long thesis here. No need to reply if you don't have the time. I am working through research on the subject and glad to learning more about human sexuality (talk about complicated.....here's to finding some consensus on what all these labels mean).

Far be it from me to try to define someone else's sexuality, but as someone who identifies as bisexual, I feel like I could give you an accurate definition of bisexuality. I would define it as the desire to have sex with and possibly date both men and women. This may include ALL gender identities (often defined as being pansexual). If you have no desire to have sex with or date anyone, I believe that the most accurate sexuality may be asexual.

Also, note that one only needs the desire to have sex with women to be considered bisexual (or lesbian). Sometimes life circumstances make that not necessarily become a reality. For example, I did not have the opportunity (and I was in denial) when I was single and now I'm in a monogamous relationship with a male partner meaning I may not ever have sex with a woman, but I WANT to.

And how do I define this "wanting to"? I look at women wanting to know what it would feel like to touch them, what they would look like naked, what they would taste like, and then becoming aroused. When I look at women's' outfits, I'm not thinking it's lovely, where did she get it? (nothing wrong with that though!), I'm thinking how nice those pants make her butt look etc. If you don't think of women in a sexual way, it might be hard to describe yourself as lesbian/bisexual as those by definition mean you're sexually attracted to women (and men as well if you're bisexual).

Maybe you're asexual and biromantic? But again, far be it from me to try to define your sexuality...

I would post links, but I don't have enough posts. Google "vanderbilt lgbt definition" and that will give you definitions of common sexual identities.

Honestly, this is a bit confusing. While women are allowed by society to be a lot more open and experimental about their sexuality and just generally what can arouse them, I think that since it's been a common theme to find sexual release and imagine sex with women, it is likely more than just fantasy without any actual desire.

For ex, I've watched a lot of gay male porn and masturbated to it but I never fantasized about it despite identifying as non-binary and being attracted to both men and women.

If I were to hypothesize I think it is possible your lack of real life desire to be with a woman may more about something holding you back mentally ,than about you being straight. Or you could be on the asexuality spectrum.



Does sexuality include thoughts? Of course it does. First of all, thinking about something is the first step towards making it real. You won't have sex with someone without thinking(more or less consciously) that you want to have sex with them, right? Plus, don't we generally get a sense of our sexuality by analyzing our thoughts and feelings regarding those around us and other stimuli?

Why exactly are you so adamant you're never going to make those erotic stimuli real? Think about it beyond your experiences so far. What makes you think 100% you will never meet a woman you'll feel that desire for? Is it a more generalized lack of sexual attraction/desire for sex with actual people/women or could it be a mix of maybe being someone who feels that kind of attraction less frequently and something making you reluctant to perhaps allow yourself to feel that way for a woman?



Yes, sexuality is very confusing. The thing about labels is that they are all made up, they're just terms we use to try and give a short, more organized definition of how one is feeling. There's so many nuances though. Even being straight isn't that clear cut. Some straight women tend to be more attracted to stereotypically manly men, other tend to be more attracted to less stereotypical looking/behaving men. Some straight women want to try sex with a woman and can be aroused having sex with a woman while at the same time recognizing that it's based on superficial desire and curiosity rather than a more serious sexual/romantic attraction.

Same with bisexuality/pansexuality. There's no one way to be bisexual/pansexual. You can be bisexual and happen to only date one gender. You can be bisexual and have a preference for one or the other. You can even live your life thinking you're straight and end up falling in love with someone of the same gender when you're like 40.

Point is, your sexuality just is, it is what it is and it doesn't necessarily need a label just like it doesn't need to perfectly fit in the designated parameters of a label. You should just feel and follow your heart and desires.
I am much like you said. I was born and sadly still live in a country that is not as progressive and open minded as other countries in the north/north west of the same continent(yes, Europe). So, being a designated female who sort of feels female but also feels very male and likes male designated stuff when it comes to clothes and style in general, I was always on the fringes. If you add to that my entirely too progressive, super feminist, super inclusive views and atheism....well it's rather hard to feel like part of any group, it's hard to make friends and I've always felt like an outsider everywhere. Oh and I was also bullied for my weight growing up so ...

All my life I was always true to myself, never hiding my true self, always wearing what I wanted, acting the way I felt, I was never in the closet with my gender queerness or with my views about the world.

However, even though I don't really care what others think because if they hate on my identity and expression they are wrong and also because I'm used to it now, there's always some internalized issues.

For me, in the past couple of years I realized I am pansexual. I'm actually really happy about that because for the life of me I can't imagine how it can be anything other than a positive thing, the ability to be attracted to every gender and gender expression. I had to really be open to it though, not in terms of overall mentality but to be truly open mentally to having yet another characteristic to my personality that is misunderstood, mocked, unacceptable to a significant nr of people. I'm used to being on the fringes and feeling on the outside but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and I am tired of this sense of profound loneliness of not belonging, of having to explain myself because I am not the default.

You may be asexual or just bi curious, or u may be subconsciously scared of actually falling for a woman, desiring a "real" woman you could be with, because that would definitely make you non straight and because there's still some stigmatization that comes with it.

Also, asexuality doesn't necessarily mean no desire/need for sexual release/pleasure or intimacy. Many asexuals have sex for various reasons and even enjoy it. Also, many asexuals masturbate, enjoy porn, fantasize.

So dope! Cheers for sharing your experiences and for helping me understand the terms better and how others are uing those labels to identify themselves. What I gather from your post is that you use those label as a way to define how you feel around actual people? In my situation when its around actual people, I feel no such attraction be it romantic or sexual for women at all. I would think that the porn and thoughts on and off would point to a desire but it doesnt. Interestingly, for the past week I have started a journey to no porn and so far what its showing is what I wrote about on my first post which is that lesbian thoughts and masturbation only seem to be inspired after viewing porn or lesbian erotic content. Outside of such stimulus the desire to think of women is not there. When I think of men, I dont need porn or erotic straight content to provide a stimulus, it happens organically and I think more than anything combined by the research I've been doing on sexuality including reading sex therapists views, I am starting to see that I may have conditioned myself with the whole lesbian porn/erotic content to form a habit and this explains the 15 year on and off. Mind you, I have never thought or analysed this 15 year habit so as you can gather I lived life organically letting things flow. I never analysed if I liked women or if I was in denial. I just lived life and in no where in those 15 years have a desire for women in actual form presented itself. I have never noticed a woman on the street and felt an arousal or even got to know a woman who I felt an romantic desire for. Women have always felt to me like sisters and remain so.

Again cheers. This past week, things have started to become clearer to me.

Cheers Entity06 for your response and insight.

I want to preface the response below by saying that I am not in denial. I explained why and how I am not in denial in my last post to you and if you still think I may still be in denial then that's your right but I won't be responding to denial claims.

I also want to point out that since ending my lesbian porn/erotic films use that I have watched since aged 14, as expected lesbian thoughts that were inspired by viewing such content have all gone away. I will continue no more porn/erotic content use forever now and I expect the thoughts will fade away completely. if they don't, then that's when I can reevaluate whether or not there is something more but no need to do that now.

I completely understand how my reality is confusing to you, but I am going to strongly disagree with the part highlighted in bold. My experience around actual people goes against your point. The fact is I feel no desire for women that I have met, interacted with and see everyday for the past 30 years, not romantically or sexually. It isnt denial but as stated I am not going to keep reemphasizing that.

I am sorry Entity06 but I've done quite a bit of research this past week that has helped inform me and made me feel less alone and less confused. Much of the research I've been doing disagrees with your point above.

-Many people including sex therapists agree that same sex thoughts/fantasies do not necessarily determine or indicate one's sexual orientation. Many people think of things to get off that they would never engage in.
-Nothing I have read has suggested that time length of sexual thoughts is an indication of one's sexual orientation. If you have anything to share to suggest otherwise, please do.
-Everything I have read so far explains that when defining one's sexual orientation, it is best to rely on feeling one feels around actual people.
-Porn is not a good indication and I would extend that to erotic content. Women in particular research have found are able to respond to sexual stimulus regardless of the gender.

To sum up, your focus is on my thoughts and time length and by what I've read from your post Entity06, I understand you believe because of this I am not straight. I want to illustrate your hypothesis of my sexuality:

If someone has spent 15 years on and off watching videos of animals or objects and then going off to masturbate to thoughts of being intimate with an animal or an object but had no desire to make those those thoughts come true, what would their sexual orientation be? If they told you that when they interacted with the actual animals they feel no desire and so are confused how they only feel desire in their thoughts which are usually inspired by the images they viewed and that they did not feel any desire to make those thoughts come true, would you question if they were in denial simply for not feeling a desire to make those thoughts come true? Just because this is about women and same sex it does not make it any different than my illustration above.

From my own rational mind, no I wouldn't think the person has a sexual leaning towards animals despite the time length of the thoughts they had. I would rationally think well when you are around animals and you are not aroused or feel any attracton then you are not inclined that way. And I think Ive spent a whole week learning that sexuality and labels are not that confusing. If I ever get aroused and feel a sexual or even romantic connection to a woman I meet then that's when I can define myself as bisexual or a lesbian. Until then I am going by my feelings around real people and not thoughts. So I can acknowledge that I do find some men attractive, I may or may not decide to engage romantically with a guy based on this attraction. I can acknowledge that I have no such reaction to women I have met and never have and can conclude from that, that I am not sexually or romantically attracted to women who exist in flesh and discount thoughts that I no longer have since stopping the viewing porn a week ago.

I think we have to be careful in using the word denial on every situation just because someones behavior isnt matching up as well as ours have, for example you explain that you have watched gay porn but have never fantasized about it? Cool but thats your situation, not everyone is you though and your understanding of the topic of sexuality around your personal experience and basing it on that is not helpful especially when other people as highlighted above including sex therapists don't necessarily agree with you in that same sex thoughts/fantasies are not necessarily an indication of one's sexual orientation.

Lol, if only my reality was that I actually liked women. I would be elated to have all my behaviors and thoughts match up. No one has a clue the mental stress this confusion has caused me but this past week individually researching has helped me out tremendously. I hope this post helps someone else out because I know how lonely of a road this has been. I understand myself better now having spent the week researching and learning more about porn, fantasies and sexuality.

Also entity06, just re-read my post to you that I wrote and wanted to express that I wrote it earlier in quite a hurry and didn't re-read it so do excuse me if it comes across as rude or too matter of fact, that was not my intention. Just wanted to make sure that this is expressed.

Cheers for all for contributing on this btw.

Your story is fascinating to me. I really respect your decision not pursue a sexual relationship with either a man or a woman. It seems that you either have given up masturbation or want to give that up for ethical reasons. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly but it seems to me that you don't agree with how porn is made so you're giving it up even though you feel a fairly strong urge to use porn.

At the risk of making this all about me, I want to talk a bit about myself because it informs how I see you. I'm a male virgin. I want to delay having sex until I'm married for religious/ethical reasons. I'm attracted to women. There is some ambiguity in my mind because I haven't actually been intimate with a woman. I masturbate. I seldom use porn. I have an aversion to porn for a couple of reasons. Part of it is that I don't feel I have a moral right to look at a naked woman or man just for my own pleasure. Part of it is that I find the porn industry to be extremely harmful to society. This is all my own thinking so I realize others disagree and I'm not here to debate anyone.

I want to get married but there are issues of finding the right person and being able to afford a place to live. There are some women I've talked to, who share my values and showed some interest in me. It hasn't worked out for me yet.

When I talk about my life, some people are quite understanding and some are surprised. What I can tell you is that you're not responsible for how other people feel about you. Furthermore, you're the best judge of whether your behavior or your feelings are either troubling you or helping you function. If you feel troubled, you probably need to find some resource to help. If you feel you're functioning well, there's no compelling need to change anything.

Wonderful, thank you. You may be bisexual or leaning towards lesbian. Can't go wrong either way.