How did this happen? (kind of explicit)

Let me explain first of all my social life. I have a few friends, though I don't talk to many people since I'm home schooled. I don't have any interest in boys or dating, though I have a few guy friends.

Now that that's out of the way, let me explain the situation. A few of my friends and I had a sleepover at my friend's house. It was me, her, and our two guy friends. This isn't the first co-ed sleepover we've had. In fact, we've had tons before. Usually at my house, where there's slightly more to do and no children under twelve in the house. I'm not sure if the change in environment set things off or whatever.

Sleeping together isn't a problem. At my house we have separate air mattresses, one for boys and one for girls. This time we pushed together a few twin mattresses on the floor and slept (by chance admittedly) in boy-girl pairs. But even that wasn't as risque as it sounds: boys' heads were at one end, girls' at the other.

Being awake together isn't really a problem either. We're usually still wrapped in comforters most of the next day, in closer contact than when we sleep. Not much goes on. Talking, cuddling, the occasional grooming (you see a lot of imperfections when your face is centimeters from someone else's). At one point or another, someone's bound to pull you under the covers and start breathing heavily, just for kicks. The air is comical, not intimate in any way.

Well eventually it was time for us to leave the living room, so we went upstairs into one of the kids' rooms. It had a queen bed so we could all fit playing video games or whatever. Well, we didn't play many video games that day.

Instead, we played truth or dare. A common sleepover game for our age group. Testing people's limits, seeing their reactions, it's a little lesson in adolescent social psychology. And even though truth or dare turns into "I dare you to" most of the time, usually our games are really mild. The worst that would happen is someone would kiss someone else. Or god forbid a boob be touched.

Personally, my limits are pretty high, at least with this group of friends. I trust them with my body (and myself for that matter), so usually I'm a sort of dummy during these games. If the other party's willing, you can guarantee I'll do the dare. My one guy friend claimed he was the same way, but he's always the mastermind who thinks up dares. And logistics say that the mastermind and the dummy hardly ever touch.

I can't tell you exactly when things started to escalate. People got more comfortable, and "lick his nipple" turned into "lick her nipple." At some point "show her your penis" came up, and from there "touch it" and even "lick it."

Prior to this game, truth or dare took a long time to play due to hesitation. By this point it was taking a while because no one was creative enough. There was only a set number of things we could think up.

So... We devised a cute little sexual dice game with a die and a notebook. It had columns with numbers that corresponded to people who would do an action, the action, the body part for the action, and finally the receiver. Clever, huh? Suddenly the speed was picking up.

I suppose the worst combination was suck genetalia, but even that I did without hesitation. The thing was, I knew I'd do what I did or worse without a problem. But I never thought about what would happen if I wasn't the only one comfortable with it. One of the boys was unwilling to have his penis sucked, and we respected that, of course. Also I had not showered that day so I told the boys it was their choice if they wanted to go between my legs. The dice combination didn't come up, though, so it didn't matter.

It's important that you recognize the atmosphere of this game. It was very similar to truth or dare. No action took more than two seconds, and the boys didn't even seem to get any pleasure from it. (I think my one friend might have erectile dysfunction. I don't see how else it's possible for a girl to suck a flaccid penis.) Some of the combinations themselves were comical, like suck tongue or rub buttcheek.

But though I can't say I have any regrets, the experience left me with a lot of questions. When I'm not restricted by others' modesty, is there a limit for me? Is this who we are as a group now? If we get bored again, is sex play a valid activity? Could this turn into friends with benefits? Were our parents wrong to trust us? And perhaps most importantly, does my friend have ED?

All this, just days before my 16th birthday.

Thoughts, comments, opinions are welcome.

hon I think you all are playing dangerous games. these things could lead to so much more. would either of you be willing to raise a child from this type of play? mighty dangerous.

I only say this because I got pregnant at 15. I would not want any of you to do that. I love my daughter. she will soon be 35. I am still young enough to enjoy life thank goodness.

My question is.......

Where were your parents while this was taking place?

I personally would have been there in the house at all times and there would have been no boys & girls in any ones bedroom.

I was wondering the same thing. why would a parent allow a coed sleep over?

My parents trust us, and I assumed rightfully so. The parent issue is a bit of a complex problem. They trust me, and they trust my friends, although for the longest time they thought my one friend and I liked each other. Nevertheless, they still allowed sleepovers, even ones with just him. (We slept on a corner couch, so it's not like anything could happen anyway.)

They thought we were kidding ourselves and in a way, WANTED us to be together. My mom thought he was just waiting for me to say the words, and it seems they'd rather he was my boyfriend than anyone else. They really like him, they think he likes me, and my mom even encouraged me to "show him some gratitude," although I don't think she intended for that to sound wrong.

Keep in mind this wasn't at my house, anyway. This was my friend's house, where her mom, dad, and younger siblings live. It was a full house that day, and this is a rather chaotic environment. My friend's mother was the one who suggested we go upstairs because the little kids were bothering us. She's even quicker to trust us than my parents.

I thought about where this could lead, but I'm on the pill for PMS, and I still think I'm the only one that would go that far anyway. Would I do it? Yes, because I'd rather my partner be someone I can trust than someone I'm attracted to. What's messed up here is I trust myself and my judgment with sex, but not with love.

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magasanguis said:
My parents trust us, and I assumed rightfully so.

The parent issue is a bit of a complex problem. They trust me, and they trust my friends,

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As a parent of two young men and the once teenage mother of bouncing baby boy....... I have to say that while it is good that your parent have this Great TRUST in you (and I applaud you for giving your parents this gift of trust) - I still have to say that the one time a parent should not give to much trust is when it evolves around the sexual opportunities than can arise when a teenage boy & a girl are left alone unsupervised...... as nature will surely try to take its course when the room for it is given.

I say this as my parents did not give enough supervision when I was a teen and while I did not desire to have sex until I was married - it happened when I was 16 and feel in LoVe with my BF (my now husband)......... the sex came before I knew what hit us.

Two of my friends and I had the same reaction to everything, and I suppose I should pass this question on to you. "I don't feel as bad as I should. Is that wrong?"

The rest of this post will be sort of hypothetical. In the event that sex itself comes up.

I have to admit I don't see any problem with anything that could happen. I wouldn't be compromising myself, there's a 0.1% chance that I could get pregnant, none of us have any STDs, and we all have enough of an understanding of each other that we can't really end up hurting one another.

I've never had any desire for sex, and I still don't, but only because I see no reason for it when I can, um, take care of it myself. Neither of these boys has been interested before, either, but if they were I wouldn't reject them.

I can't say I really value my virginity in and of itself. I do care about my health and well-being, so I wouldn't do it if I wasn't on the pill, and as backwards as it sounds, I wouldn't do it if I were attracted to them. I've seen what "love" does in teenage relationships. It creates a facade of trust. Not to insult your situation, Rhapsody. I just see love as being way more dangerous than sex.

Am I wrong to feel comfortable with this?

It's simple. When you play with fire, you get burned.

Where were the parents in all this?

My kids had plenty of sleepovers and games they made up, like midnight football. NEVER were any of them allowed to have co-ed sleepovers or left to their own devises. They weren't always aware of my presence but my eyes and ears were always focused on them, making sure that things... or their imaginations didn't take them to places they were too young to handle. Sounds like this is what happened with you.

At your age, you have the hormones raging but aren't equiped emotionally to deal with the consequences. Time to stop all the co-ed sleepovers or being alone where things could go beyond what you are ready for.

Take care of YOU. Keep YOU safe.

Magasanguis (neat name, by the way) - I understand the others' reaction about your parents, but I don't think that's your question, is it?

I was in a kind of similar situation when I was 16 (I'm now 38). It wasn't so much that my parents 'trusted' me, but my mom had died a year earlier and my dad worked across the country Monday-Friday, so my younger brother and I were home alone. I had co-ed sleepovers at my house as well, but nothing ever came of it, so I disagree with the typical parental reaction that teenagers will take advantage of the lack of supervision if given the opportunity. I think it depends upon the kid and their friends.

But, back to YOU. You are able to articulate your thoughts and feelings quite well, and I think I 'get' your question. You seem to have good self-esteem and your reasons for agreeing to some of the dares don't appear to be coming from fear of rejection or ridicule. I would worry about you MORE if it seemed as though you just didn't know how to say no. Sounds like you were in control of your role in the situation. I think what everyone here is expressing concern about is how over-confidence can lead you into a situation that you didn't anticipate - what if the games got out of hand and you could no longer have a say in what you did or didn't do? I think that's what everyone is saying, even though it's not coming out that way.

Regarding your virginity vs modesty vs lack of feeling bad... I don't think your feelings are wrong. You seem pragmatic rather than romantic, and while in a way, it's sad that you'll miss the romantic aspects of having your first sexual experiences, you can only regret losing something that you were attached to in the first place. I did sense a little bit of naivety in your last post about "we can't really end up hurting one another", but that's an experience that adults have too, so you'll find that part out on your own.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it just sounds to me as though your head is screwed on fairly straight and as long as you are able to understand that you ARE taking some risks, some of which you might not be able to control despite your confidence, then use condoms (I don't care if they are STD free - use a condom anyway) and always make sure that you have a backup plan in case things do get out of your control.

For everyone who asks about the parents, my friend's mom was usually busy watching over the younger kids, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and talking to doctors about her other daughter's health problems. Aside from being busy, she's also rather loud, so even though she came in to check on us a few times (to offer food or whatnot), we could hear her coming. This happened midday at my friend's house, but it's just as easy that it would happen at my house after the parents go to bed.

I can't understand why people are so surprised that this could happen.

@SeptemberMorn: I can understand your concern. Kids at my age should usually be supervised, since they really aren't in control most of the time. Hormones will do that to them.

But to everyone who thinks this way, I believe I deserve a little credit.

I'd bet even if you were to tell my parents the whole story, they wouldn't blame hormones. I went through puberty early, and save for problems with PMS (recently solved through birth control), I've really learned excellent self-control by this stage. I can't recall any instances that would evidence this, so you'll just have to take my word.

Hormones aren't really what I wanted to discuss, anyway, so let me try to stifle any accusation of "hormonal teenager."

I must say that doesn't seem like the problem, since I knew my limits beforehand and didn't regret anything afterward. I didn't do anything "in the heat of the moment." If hormones were responsible for this behavior, wouldn't their hold on me worn off by now, leaving me feeling regret? And considering I don't like these boys or ever had sexual thoughts about them, I just doubt my hormones are out of control.

@LMo, I can definitely see where people would be worried if I weren't in control or couldn't say no. It makes more sense to worry about that than having co-ed sleepovers (at least in my case). My friends all know that I have no problem being in control. Through everyday interaction, I've established myself as someone who is strong-willed. I place myself above any of my friends, so I wouldn't do it for their acceptance. I realize that's dumb and unsafe.

Continuing on my theme of "I'm my first priority," I definitely would have a plan if things didn't go as intended. I'd rather shatter my parents' trust than risk my body and health. If things got out of control, I would have enough sense to go to them.

It's nice to have an opinion on my lack of guilt. I knew I could do what I did, and I assumed that I'd have some sort of "built-in" guilt mechanism to tell me I was wrong. But I didn't regret anything, and neither did at least two of my friends. And it's comforting to know that someone else doesn't consider it wrong.

If there's anything else that needs clarification, let me know.

wow. i lost my virginity when i was 15. it was because at 14, my boyfriend broke up with me because i wouldnt have sex with him. now that im almost 21 i wish i could take it back. i never did stuff like that with my friends. the most truth or dare we ever had was streaking in the road or something at 2 a.m. and the only time my dad ever let a boy stay over was after homecoming. my boyfriend didnt have a car. his parents worked nights and my dad didnt want me driving him home on homecoming night at like 2 a.m. so he slept on the futon downstairs and i slept in my bedroom.

i agree with lmo. i think that when the time comes to do all that stuff with someone you truly care about, you might regret already having done it with someone else as for comedic value. but theres nothing you can do about that now. id really think about ever going further than what you already have. sex isnt something to played around with. whether we like it or not, emotions and other consequences come along with it. like lmo said, you might night see that for several more years or even regret it or whatever.... but i think that playing with fire like that will always hurt someone somehow. there are too many emotions and feelings involved when there are so many people joining in.

and your friend doesnt have ed at that young. chances are he was too scared/nervous/embarassed. ed isnt the only reason why men cant maintain an erection.

I just want to emphasize what I meant about a 'backup plan'. Going to your parents after the fact might be too late. Not that I want to scare you into worst-case scenarios, but pregnancy and STDs are not what most parents are worried about in a situation like this. Nor is the question of YOUR hormones, but rather that of your friends.

When I talk about a backup plan, I mean a backup plan for the moment, not after it has already happened. You're a smart girl - I am sure that you will give this appropriate consideration. I'm glad that you're confident and feel in control, but keep in mind that overconfidence could be just as harmful as not enough.

Good luck - I'm here for you if you ever want to talk.

LMo

Salukigirl said: (and she's of the younger generation! )

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id really think about ever going further than what you already have. sex isnt something to played around with. whether we like it or not, emotions and other consequences come along with it. like lmo said, you might night see that for several more years or even regret it or whatever.... but i think that playing with fire like that will always hurt someone somehow. there are too many emotions and feelings involved when there are so many people joining in.

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Saluki,

I guess I forgot about everyone else individually. My one friend said that he and I have had the same standpoint on everything for I don't know how long. Which is kind of spooky to think about. For the two of us, things could've happened way sooner than this.

I suppose I should talk to him. I considered the reason for his erectile issue might be out of discomfort, but I don't know why he would lie and tell me he was comfortable with it. I'll feel terrible if everyone's lying and it was just a big game of Chicken with no winner.

My girl friend, I worry about a little. She claims she doesn't feel guilty or have regrets or whatever. But I don't know where her limits were beforehand, and I don't know if perhaps she pushed them a little.

I'm not sure what changed so that suddenly I wasn't the only one comfortable with everything.

Maybe I'm kind of naive when it comes to emotion and sex. I tend to separate the two issues, so I'd appreciate if someone could explain how this could end up hurting one of my friends.

Well, the funny thing about emotions and sex is that the emotions often sneak up on you when you least expect it. One of the four of you might be absolutely certain that he/she is "fine with it" one day, but over the ensuing weeks and/or months, find his/her feelings changing. Especially since there are more than two of you involved, I can see some potential for attachments and jealousy. And what happens if one of you suddenly gets turned off by the whole thing - how easy is it going to be for the rest of the group to handle the rejection? It's easy to say "well, it wasn't personal" in terms of what you all intended to do, but it's extremely personal in reality.

I'm not saying that it will happen guaranteed, but the potential is definitely there.

also, about his inability to get an erection - he might have been completely comfortable with the game in theory, but men's bodies don't always respond accordingly. I probably wouldn't even talk to him about it - he's probably already embarrassed. I seriously doubt he lied - he would have been unlikely to take it that far if he was intellectually uncomfortable, but might have gotten scared at the last minute. It takes balls, so to speak (hahaha) to engage in the version of truth or dare that you guys played.

its the same thing with friends with benefits. both people might go into it not wanting anything more but eventually - someone does. it always happens.

women often substitute sex for love and not even realize it. i know that i did it from about 16-18. typical daddy doesnt give me enough attention kinda thing. so i felt like i had to have sex with a guy for him to like me and it ended up biting me in the ***. i didnt say no when i wanted to, i did things i didnt want to etc... so now that i have someone that i deeply care about, i feel like it doesnt mean as much. we cant do certain things because it triggers me. some things make me think of other guys and how crappy they were to me. it has been really hard on him considering ive had sex with 3 times more people than he has. so he really has had a hard time dealing with that. to me it was "i wanted sex. so i had sex with them." but he doesnt know that. so maybe even if it doesnt mess with your emotions, it might mess with a boyfriend/girlfriend's later on down the road. i dont regret anything because of myself - i regret it because i know some things have hurt my current boyfriend and i wish i wouldnt have done it. so just because you have the ability to separate the 2 doesnt mean everyone does and you might end up losing someone because of things that have happened in the past. or hurting someone because of it.

I don't have much time, but I wanted to say that I had a similar situation with being involved in sexual play with a group of friends.

When you really think about it... Dogs do it, horses do it, monkeys do it, most everything in the world does it except... Us humans.

Because we have all these religious and guilty and ashamed etc etc etc ideas about sex and about when it is and is not appropriate and so on and so forth.

But really... Well... Don't even get me started on Bonobo's and about how peaceful their society is lol.

I don't see any harm in it. As I said I had a group of friends when I was around 14-18 and we used to fool around like that. I've even... Gone to a party here and participated in some weird (partly sexual) 'circle of love' type thing (and hey I'm 29 now!)

Things to worry about:

1) Transfer of fluids. We know you can get meningitus from sharing drinking bottles... You can get stuff from sexual fluids... Similar issues with pregnancy if the game escalates...

2) If the atmosphere is okay then its okay (in my book) - I don't see any harm in it. But... Keep an eye out for someone maybe not feeling terribly comfortable with participating?

WIth respect to the 'performance anxiety' thing... If he gets an erection during REM sleep then you know it isn't an organic problem (and the problem is some kind of anxiety). Maybe... He didn't feel terribly comfortable with the games?

What you guys said makes sense.

@LMo, there are a lot of different personalities working together here, and you touched on each one. I could see some kinds of attachments or jealousy or general disgust developing, but somehow I don't see it as being unpredictable or out-of-hand.

Let me explain a little. At this point, I think it'll be easier to give them pseudonyms, since I'm going to mention all three of them. I'll just refer to Anne, my girl friend, Ben, the one who couldn't get it up, and Jack, the one who set limits on himself.

Anne always wants to cuddle. Usually with me, surprisingly, since I'm the only "un-cuddly" one in the bunch. She gets whiney whenever Ben is cuddling with me. I'm pretty sure he only does that to get a reaction out of her, but there's potential for his attachment to me. Even if he's got his arm around her, he's looking at and talking to me.

Things between me and him have pretty much always been mutual, even during the whole evolution of our friendship. I don't really worry about him. We tend to think similarly, so even if he gets attached, the same thing will probably happen on my end. We'd make a good couple, if we had any love for each other. He's more practical than romantic, like me.

I'm not sure if Anne would get jealous from this. Especially since a boy already stole another friend's attention away from her. And I'm not sure who she'd be jealous of, him or me. But I'm sure there would be no reason for her jealousy. We've been friends through thick and thin, and I'd work really hard to help her if I had to.

The friend I haven't talked about as much yet, Jack, left the room at one point and told Anne, "I can't look at any of you the same way anymore." I don't know what happened, but it didn't take long before he came back upstairs and participated (though his limits were as rigid as before) like nothing happened.

I wonder if this was just a fear, like it was for me at one point. I thought, what if I can't look at him without seeing his penis? But I quickly realized this wasn't the case. These were the same boys I had always known.

(In fact, I think I rather liked seeing Ben especially in this new light. I have only ever known one side of him, so it was very fresh to see a different facet. It gives him more depth, I think.)

So it's not a huge worry of mine that the relationships could change. I considered it beforehand. I'm a flexible person. I think I'll be able to roll with the punches.

@salukigirl: I can totally relate to the triggering you're talking about. I really don't like kisses because of a kiss that happened in my past. That's the one thing that people can dare me to do that WILL make me uncomfortable. I don't like the intimate, personal aspect of it.

But still, I don't think I could be in your position. For one, I doubt I'll ever really have a boyfriend BECAUSE I separate love and sex. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to put up with me if it was hard for them to deal with all my "baggage," so to speak. I wouldn't be able to put them through that.

I can't say I've considered my future love/sex life because I'm pretty sure there won't be much of one. The irony was that before this, I was on the track to being totally innocent all the way to the grave. Not because it was my will, but because no one else was enabling me. But I can probably still get through life without love. I don't really have a need for it, and I don't trust myself with it.

I have to just hope that Ben and Jack don't fall in love with me.

@alexandra k, very good point about guilt and humans. I know exactly what you mean about bonobos.

Fluid transfer... really didn't happen. We were inhibited a bit because I was on my period, and Anne just had her wisdom teeth out, so she had open wounds. We were careful. We believe.

The atmosphere you're talking about is something I was definitely paying attention to. What we did was based on trust. Everyone seemed comfortable, although Jack was comfortable with a stricter limit. But that was okay. We wanted everyone to feel comfortable and trusting of one another.

And I'm not sure what to do about poor Ben exactly. Of course I had to tease him just a little bit once, but I wouldn't bring it up again. If this sort of situation comes up again, I suppose I'll give him a second chance...? I don't know if he'd appreciate that or not. He seemed totally fine with things. So maybe it was a fluke.

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magasanguis said:
"I don't feel as bad as I should. Is that wrong?"

Rhapsody. I just see love as being way more dangerous than sex.

Am I wrong to feel comfortable with this?

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I do not believe you should feel bad with the views you have concerning sex...... just know that there are many emotional ties you are not yet ready for when it comes to having sex (even with friendly sex) and you will not understand these emotional/mental ties until they happen after becoming sexual, then you will ask your self "Why Didn't I Wait"

And please know that are far more dangerous things involved in having sex than just getting pregnant or becoming attached to the person you are having sex with - there are many STD's that KILL and that is far more dangerous than LoVe.

If I may ask? - What is it that has left you feeling that Sex is safer than Love?