[Rapunzel]

I thought I was managing okay, but it turned out I was just going through the motions and didn't even know it. I couldn't think of anything that was wrong. I'm doing okay at my new job - a little overwhelmed sometimes, and I dissociated one day because I didn't sleep and was tired and was trying to comprehend all the new information all at once and remember everybody's names, and it was all so overwhelming. That was a couple of weeks ago, and I don't think I ever did re-connect after that.

I figured out some of the roots behind feeling like I can never be good enough. As a child, I loved music and wanted to be a professional musician. My family tree has considerable talent on both sides, and I wanted to carry on that tradition. But I never measured up to their standards. My parents told me I wasn't any good. Not good enough to get lessons. And not important enough to have opportunities to learn, either. I asked my grandfather to teach me the violin when I was 9 or 10 years old, and he said I was too young. I finally started to learn the violin almost 2 years ago, and I'm very critical of my efforts. It never sounds good enough to play for anyone else besides me. I think I was 8 or 9 when my family got a piano (one that my grandfather re-built). I wanted to have lessons. My mom dug up an old book and showed me enough to figure it out myself, and I tried to work my way through the book, but never got much encouragement. When I practiced, somebody would always complain, and I would give up. When we moved to Spain when I was 11, we didn't take the piano. They got a cheap electric keyboard (a toy), which would only play one note at a time, and I tried to play that. It would play chords by pushing chord buttons, and had its own music that came with it. I was working on it. But sometimes I would forget to change the chords, and my dad would complain, and within a couple of weeks they got rid of the keyboard. I wanted to sign up for orchestra at my school, but my parents said it was a waste because we were about to move to Spain, and there was no point in starting. After we moved, I was not allowed to enroll in band (orchestra wasn't offered), because I hadn't started it at the other school. I made sure to sign up for band the next year (7th grade), and picked the flute to learn because they didn't offer violin. I was a year behind everyone else, and never good enough. In high school, when I tried out for band, my parents had told me I wouldn't make it because I wasn't that good. No surprise, I didn't make it that year. The next year, I did make it through try outs, but it was marching band, and my parents complained that I would ruin a good flute playing it out in the weather and the mud. So I got into flags instead. It was a constant struggle for me to keep my place and be able to perform. I was an alternate one year, and even my senior year someone was always challenging my spot. I never had good coordination - my family has a minor form of muscular dystrophy. Later, my dad said that he was disappointed in me for doing flags instead of staying with the flute. My parents never went to any of the marching band performances or competitions, even my senior year when we were third place at the state marching band competition. They might have gone to one, but left early, before we performed.

I tried to join the church choir, but my mother always volunteered for the nursery, and I generally got told that it was selfish if I didn't go and help her in the nursery. One year I had started singing with the ward choir, and I loved the music that we were doing - it was more challenging and the choir sounded really good. Then I went to a practice, and at the beginning they announced that the choir had decided only to have adults because youth voices didn't blend right with adult voices (I think I was 16, and I was the only youth member regularly singing with the choir). I looked at my dad, who always did choir, for support, and he didn't even notice me as I tried to get out of the room without showing tears.

There were a lot of things that I tried to do, and my parents or my sister always said I was no good and shouldn't try. If I tried anyway, they kept criticizing me until I eventually gave up. You had to be instantly perfect right from the start, or it was no good.

Then, since being a musician was out, when I started making career choices in college I got similar messages. They said that I shouldn't go into psychology because I knew I had some problems. I changed to communicative disorders. The faculty continually emphasized that you can't legitimately do anything in communicative disorders with a bachelor's degree. I didn't question anything since my history taught me not to. Then I was asked to resign from the honor's program. I was lacking in organizational skills, and generally somewhat immature, and I guess I knew that. Then I wasn't admitted to the master's program. They were blunt, and said that I didn't have good enough social skills and they didn't think I should work with children at all. I thought I would apply someplace else, but I didn't get the chance to (was married by that time and he was getting his master's degree and we couldn't re-locate). I couldn't deal with the possibility of more rejection anyway. I gave up on everything, and just went through the motions of trying to be a wife and mom. I hardly even remember much of those years of being numb and mostly checking out emotionally. It was like I wasn't even there.

This mostly isn't really new, I'm just putting it together. It's where I am this week. At least the dissociative fog is clearing out again, for a while.

[Sannah]

I'm sorry Rapunzel. That sounds painful . I'm glad you are making this connection now though and how it is affecting you today so that you can heal...........

[pachyderm]

Every once in a while I read something by somebody who says that their mother or family supported them wholeheartedly, and that is one reason they succeeded. Like you, the opposite was true of us children. We were criticized mercilessly and could never do anything right in the eyes of our mother. So you are not alone in this.

[seeker1950]

Rapunzel, I am so sorry to read of your upbringing and lack of encouragement. I too can relate to much of what you experienced.
Lately, I've been "connecting the dots" to a lot of such early childhood experiences as they relate to the circumstances in which I found myself as an adult. It's painful stuff to go thru.
In the end, finally coming to terms with it, I am faced with who I am, and where I am in life. I no longer let the past victimize me, as it does no good, for me, or anyone. I fully realize, however, that the limitations placed upon me, both emotionally and professionally, are the result of where I am today.
Love
Patty

[Rapunzel]

Why do i still think that I must not have been worth supporting? And that it is too late now and I will never be anything at all. And that it would never be good enough, anyway?

I remember writing / saying that I never really learn beyond whatever my initial abilities at something are. In music, I'm not too bad at sight reading, but not very likely to ever get good enough to actually perform. Learning any new skills seems like either I get it immediately, or I never will.

Reading the DBT training manual, it says that borderlines inevitably lack self-shaping ability. "Their unreasonable expectations for immediate perfection interfere constantly with their ability to learn the skills gradually."

T expects me to be able to apply my own training and skills to my own deficits. It isn't that easy. And she will think that I'm just making excuses and labeling myself if I try to tell her that, most likely.

[searchingmysoul]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

Why do i still think that I must not have been worth supporting?

You are not alone...While my story is much different than yours in some ways, I too experienced a TOTAL lack of encouragement and was otherwise disregarded in my family...I have recently gotten my Master's degree and only recently has my father said word of praise and encouragement to me. Recently in T I was going over this, and the fact that I wasn't assumed to be precious as a child and loved despite my imperfections. I just found myself saying over and over "would it have been so hard?" My interactions with my parents are less than encouraging in this arena...in fact, they continue to be rather infuriating...But they were wrong about me all along anyway...

Putting the pieces together is painful...

Rapunzel

[Rapunzel]

I am also just wrapping up the last bit of my internship for my master's degree. My parents didn't say one word about it when I saw them for Thanksgiving. When I mentioned some time back that I wanted to be a psychologist (what I always wanted to do, but never thought that I could), their response was a plain "that's ambitious," with no encouragement, never mentioning it again.

My younger sister is a psychiatrist, though, and they supported her through medical school and told me about her accomplishments if we ever talked (which wasn't often), and they call her and ask for advice (they never think to call me). Since pill-pushing never was what I wanted to do, I'll never measure up. My sister will outrank me. She always did.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((((((((((( Rap ))))))))))))))))

[Sannah]

"A dialectical world view emphasizes wholeness, inter-relatedness and process (change) as fundamental characteristics of reality" (Linehan & Kehrer, 1993, p.400). The fundamental value of the dialectical view is never to accept an absolute truth or an indisputable fact (Linehan & Kehrer,1993). For example, an individual with BPD may only be able to see things in black or white, or from one extreme to another. The dialectical view does not search for either extreme, but takes the middle road of balance. Thus, there is no search in absolute truth, for there are many truths and different perspectives. The therapist and client must constantly ask themselves "what is being left out of [their] understanding" to help them clarify the dialectical dilemmas that exist within the client (Linehan & Kehrer, 1993, p. 401).

The dialectical view assumes that clients' problems are caused by these dialectical failures. In dialectics, reality is seen as comprised of internal opposing forces (thesis and antithesis) out of whose synthesis evolves change. Dichotomous and extreme thinking, behavior, and emotions, which are characteristic symptoms of BPD, are considered to be dialectical failures (Linehan, 1993b). The borderline individual becomes stuck in polarities (opposite extremes) and is unable to move to synthesis. For instance, the individual with BPD may not be able to see a solution to a problem, such as feeling isolated, and therefore may react with impulsive behavior such as binge drinking. The individual needs to find a balance between accepting her feeling of isolation and finding a more adaptive way to cope with it. The therapist must help the client move towards a workable synthesis by balancing the need for the client to accept herself as she is in the moment and the need for her to change. The change process is conceptualized by the borderline individual being able to "radically accept" her present situation in the moment, and being willing to change it to better her life (Linehan, 1993b). The therapist supports the client by validating her views and difficulties, and uses dialectics to focus the client's attention on the opposing polarities and help her find ways out of them. Through the therapeutic opposition of contradictory positions, the client and therapist can both "arrive at new meanings within old meanings and move closer to the essence of the subject under consideration" (Linehan & Kehrer, p.401).

[searchingmysoul]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

I am also just wrapping up the last bit of my internship for my master's degree. My parents didn't say one word about it when I saw them for Thanksgiving. When I mentioned some time back that I wanted to be a psychologist (what I always wanted to do, but never thought that I could), their response was a plain "that's ambitious," with no encouragement, never mentioning it again.

My younger sister is a psychiatrist, though, and they supported her through medical school and told me about her accomplishments if we ever talked (which wasn't often), and they call her and ask for advice (they never think to call me). Since pill-pushing never was what I wanted to do, I'll never measure up. My sister will outrank me. She always did.

Congratulations to you!!!!! Isn't it gruelling? The time, work, introspection....

Similarly, my younger sister is getting her Associates in Nursing right now. She is regarded (by my parents) as the shining light of our family. At my graduation in May my mother actually said to me "What is your degree going to be again?". I am not kidding.

This behavior is so painful.

Rapunzel

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

I am also just wrapping up the last bit of my internship for my master's degree. My parents didn't say one word about it when I saw them for Thanksgiving. When I mentioned some time back that I wanted to be a psychologist (what I always wanted to do, but never thought that I could), their response was a plain "that's ambitious," with no encouragement, never mentioning it again.

My younger sister is a psychiatrist, though, and they supported her through medical school and told me about her accomplishments if we ever talked (which wasn't often), and they call her and ask for advice (they never think to call me). Since pill-pushing never was what I wanted to do, I'll never measure up. My sister will outrank me. She always did.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at unsupportive, invalidating parents!!!!

Rap

[Christine1123]

((Rapunzel))
It's not your fault that your parents failed at being supportive. Nobody is ever instantly a pro at anything. It takes practice. Maybe your parents didn't like the idea of you being better at something than they are?

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Christine1123

((Rapunzel))
It's not your fault that your parents failed at being supportive. Nobody is ever instantly a pro at anything. It takes practice. Maybe your parents didn't like the idea of you being better at something than they are?

"Your parents failed at being supportive".

[skeeweeaka]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

I thought I was managing okay, but it turned out I was just going through the motions and didn't even know it. I couldn't think of anything that was wrong. I'm doing okay at my new job - a little overwhelmed sometimes, and I dissociated one day because I didn't sleep and was tired and was trying to comprehend all the new information all at once and remember everybody's names, and it was all so overwhelming. That was a couple of weeks ago, and I don't think I ever did re-connect after that.

I figured out some of the roots behind feeling like I can never be good enough. As a child, I loved music and wanted to be a professional musician. My family tree has considerable talent on both sides, and I wanted to carry on that tradition. But I never measured up to their standards. My parents told me I wasn't any good. Not good enough to get lessons. And not important enough to have opportunities to learn, either. I asked my grandfather to teach me the violin when I was 9 or 10 years old, and he said I was too young. I finally started to learn the violin almost 2 years ago, and I'm very critical of my efforts. It never sounds good enough to play for anyone else besides me. I think I was 8 or 9 when my family got a piano (one that my grandfather re-built). I wanted to have lessons. My mom dug up an old book and showed me enough to figure it out myself, and I tried to work my way through the book, but never got much encouragement. When I practiced, somebody would always complain, and I would give up. When we moved to Spain when I was 11, we didn't take the piano. They got a cheap electric keyboard (a toy), which would only play one note at a time, and I tried to play that. It would play chords by pushing chord buttons, and had its own music that came with it. I was working on it. But sometimes I would forget to change the chords, and my dad would complain, and within a couple of weeks they got rid of the keyboard. I wanted to sign up for orchestra at my school, but my parents said it was a waste because we were about to move to Spain, and there was no point in starting. After we moved, I was not allowed to enroll in band (orchestra wasn't offered), because I hadn't started it at the other school. I made sure to sign up for band the next year (7th grade), and picked the flute to learn because they didn't offer violin. I was a year behind everyone else, and never good enough. In high school, when I tried out for band, my parents had told me I wouldn't make it because I wasn't that good. No surprise, I didn't make it that year. The next year, I did make it through try outs, but it was marching band, and my parents complained that I would ruin a good flute playing it out in the weather and the mud. So I got into flags instead. It was a constant struggle for me to keep my place and be able to perform. I was an alternate one year, and even my senior year someone was always challenging my spot. I never had good coordination - my family has a minor form of muscular dystrophy. Later, my dad said that he was disappointed in me for doing flags instead of staying with the flute. My parents never went to any of the marching band performances or competitions, even my senior year when we were third place at the state marching band competition. They might have gone to one, but left early, before we performed.

I tried to join the church choir, but my mother always volunteered for the nursery, and I generally got told that it was selfish if I didn't go and help her in the nursery. One year I had started singing with the ward choir, and I loved the music that we were doing - it was more challenging and the choir sounded really good. Then I went to a practice, and at the beginning they announced that the choir had decided only to have adults because youth voices didn't blend right with adult voices (I think I was 16, and I was the only youth member regularly singing with the choir). I looked at my dad, who always did choir, for support, and he didn't even notice me as I tried to get out of the room without showing tears.

There were a lot of things that I tried to do, and my parents or my sister always said I was no good and shouldn't try. If I tried anyway, they kept criticizing me until I eventually gave up. You had to be instantly perfect right from the start, or it was no good.

Then, since being a musician was out, when I started making career choices in college I got similar messages. They said that I shouldn't go into psychology because I knew I had some problems. I changed to communicative disorders. The faculty continually emphasized that you can't legitimately do anything in communicative disorders with a bachelor's degree. I didn't question anything since my history taught me not to. Then I was asked to resign from the honor's program. I was lacking in organizational skills, and generally somewhat immature, and I guess I knew that. Then I wasn't admitted to the master's program. They were blunt, and said that I didn't have good enough social skills and they didn't think I should work with children at all. I thought I would apply someplace else, but I didn't get the chance to (was married by that time and he was getting his master's degree and we couldn't re-locate). I couldn't deal with the possibility of more rejection anyway. I gave up on everything, and just went through the motions of trying to be a wife and mom. I hardly even remember much of those years of being numb and mostly checking out emotionally. It was like I wasn't even there.

This mostly isn't really new, I'm just putting it together. It's where I am this week. At least the dissociative fog is clearing out again, for a while.

It can be difficult growing up without your parents support. I know it seemed as if they didn't care, and for whatever reason you are trying to work through that now and that is a good thing. Finding self worth after experiencing that can be difficult for some of us, valuing yourself and feeling good about yourself can sometime feel very foreign.

I'm just happy to hear that you are working on it... Eventually I'm hopeful that we will all get there...and learn to love and accept ourselves in spite of what wasn't give to us...

TJ

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

My younger sister is a psychiatrist, though, and they supported her through medical school and told me about her accomplishments if we ever talked (which wasn't often), and they call her and ask for advice (they never think to call me). Since pill-pushing never was what I wanted to do, I'll never measure up. My sister will outrank me. She always did.

In whose eyes?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Sannah

The dialectical view assumes that clients' problems are caused by these dialectical failures.

Hmmm. And how did the "dialectical failures" get established in the mind of the sufferer?

Might it be that they were encouraged in the family of origin, or modelled there as being the way things were always done? Maybe any other approach (seeing more than one side of a question) was stigmatized?



And if that happened to be so, might the approach to changing things be more challenging?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Hmmm. And how did the "dialectical failures" get established in the mind of the sufferer?

Might it be that they were encouraged in the family of origin, or modelled there as being the way things were always done? Maybe any other approach (seeing more than one side of a question) was stigmatized?



And if that happened to be so, might the approach to changing things be more challenging?

(I forgot to note that I copied this stuff from a website.)

You bet, the family of origin did everything but be supportive! So the person left the family not even knowing which way was up when it comes to how they fit into the world around them and how to interact.

The approach to changing things is very challenging. It seems that for this approach you hang on to both extremes and then look for the middle or the gray as opposed to the black or white extremes.

I raise my 2 girls by looking at them and trying to understand where they are and trying to see the world through their eyes to see their challenges. Proper development is not about the parent (their needs), it is about the child. What do they need. So many parents don't get this, because of their own problems of course. All of our problems came about because of a parent who couldn't see beyond their own problems to see us. Proper development takes a parent who can see what the child needs. A person who develops BPD had a parent who didn't have a clue about what their child needed and then everything that they did just confused the child more (because it was the opposite of what the child needed). Getting better is making sense out of that confusion.

[thunderbear]

Congratulatons! I can't say i know how it feels to have a mom like that but it truly sounds awful. And I am sorry that you have to go through that. My mom was supportive I was just introverted and painfully shy because I was an overweight child. Good Luck to you Rapunzel.