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#1
Jun 01, 2011, 09:59 PM
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My adult daughter (22) has been having problems for some time. In the past year I was suspectng a mental health issue because she showed signs of borderline personality disorder and was hospitalized for a short time earlier this year.
Recently she said that she thinks 'something bad happened to her when she was very young,' She said she was referring to sexual abuse and said there was a possibility it was "X" but she couldn't be sure. She said she 'had this feelng' and gets flashbacks of things. However the flashbacks are not sexual in nature... example... she recalls watching movies and something is not right.. doesn't remember if they are sexual movies, .... things like this. Now this isn't the first time this subject came up. When she was a little girl of about 4, a family member told me they thought something inappropriate was going on with my daughter and "X". I was shocked and didn't believe it. I asked why they thought that and was told 'she was sitting on his lap and when she got up, he had an erection'. I thought they coud have been wrong and 'thought' they saw this.... but nevertheless approached my daughter and asked her if she knew the difference between someone touching her in a 'good way' vs a 'bad way'... or something along those lines... this was many years ago! She said she understood and also said she would tell me if anyone ever touched her inappropriately. I was relieved to hear this, and dismissed the entire thing. Years later, fast forward to when she is age 20. She had what could be described as a breakdown. She was completely distraught over 'abusing her younger brother' when she was a young girl. She didn't get into detail, but said she had forced him into things, and it wasn't 2 kids playing doctor type of thing. I spoke to "X" and said to him - this bothers me.. do you think there was possibiity she experienced this as a child and she acted out on brother? I went on to say ' oh well the truth will all come out in her therapy'. I said this, thinking , if in fact he did do something, he might be scared into admitting it. To my disgust, he eventualy said there was a 'possibility he could have done something but he didn't remember'. He kept insisting he wasn't admitting to anything, but 'anything is possible' . I cannot imagine any sane, normal, healthy, rational adult admitting to 'possibly' sexually abusing a child but not remembering it.... In my own mind I was convicting him and deeming him guilty! I confronted my daughter about this at the time and asked her straight out if X ever touched her and she said no. (She was very calm surprisingly... I thought she would flip at the idea of my asking about this) This has bothered me since, and I've been to see a therapist myself.. but realizing nothing I can do.... However, like I said at the start, now she suddenly says she thinks this may have happened after all.?? I don't know what to think -- or how to help her... I told her to go back to her doctor and ask to see a different therapist as she says the one she's been seeing has not been helping her. There was a time docs thought she had bipolar too (she doesn't stick with doc long enough to get a diagnosis)..and I did read that bipolar kids can be hyper sexual... so I don't know if she was abused and can't remember it.... or if in fact she is bipolar and was hyper sexual as a kid... still doesn't explain X's strange comments (I have condensed this but I know it is still very long) Any comments from anyone who knows anything about suppressed memories of sexual abuse? I'm grasping at straws here... she has been angry with me for years and I always attirbuted it to my divorcing her father... but now I'm wondering if she was harmed as a child? Can suppresed memories and subsequent symptoms be similar to Borderline Personality Disorder? |
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#2
Jun 01, 2011, 10:25 PM
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i was never abused, but reading this story, i would say there is a huge possibility something happened.
X 's comments are too strange! sounds like X is guilty but couldnt come clean. But its only how i read it. Best thing you can do? Get your daughter to see someone (not just once either it must be on going) who specalises in adult surviviors of child sexual abuse. it may be that it didnt happen , but only a professional working with your daughter can tell you. Does your daughter want treatment? Dont stress and try to dig up the past on your own ok, it could be really traumatic. Goodluck 
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#3
Jun 01, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
to illustrate this think about something in your own life that you found harmful /disturbing to you. now think about how you push that memory away from you when its not the right time to let yourself remember that situation.. would you consider yourself to have a mental disorder because you are doing that? thats what suppressing memories is. its an action someone does, not a disorder. of course not normal people do push away memories when its not the right time to deal with those memories or when that memory is too traumatic for them. having borderline personality disorder means you have a problem keeping your moods stable (have angry outbursts, laugh when its something sad, cry when things are happy, highly excitable or depressive), you have trouble relating to people around you (feel like no one understands you, have trouble getting along with others, choosing relationships then dropping out of relationships more frequently than normal people do, you dont like yourself and dont like others very much either, a loner, have trouble keeping jobs because of mood problems, depression or lacking interpersonal skills. the symptoms of supressing trauma falls under the disorder called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.. in laymans terms its stress in the form of repressed memories (some call this suppressed memories) surfacing, anxiety, not being able to be around those that remind the person of the trauma and those who inflicted the trauma, nightmares, flashbacks, depression, in some cases the one with PTSD will either avoid relationships /commitments or be over active in seeing out many relationships sometimes even abusive ones. we cant diagnose your daughter but her or your treatment providers can go more in detail about PTSD /suppressed memories / vs having borderline Personality Disorder. |
 Can't Stop Crying
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#4
Jun 01, 2011, 10:47 PM
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this is very emotional for you, but you are doing right to listen to and support your daughter.
many people remember abuse late and in partial images. as a matter of fact, most memories return a piece at a time. research has shown later proof of abuse where memories were suppressed for years. even studies of children who have been through a car accident show memory suppression as soon as 6 months after. memory can be tricky, but it is simply not true that something remembered late must be fabricated. abuse deniers say that, not psychologists. which X sounds like. the "something may have happened but i don't recall" line is so overused that it is a legendary excuse known well among professionals and clients who are survivors. it's like when kids experimenting with pot tell parents "that's not my pot. my friend asked me to hold it for them." and yes, early trauma that starts erupting later in life can look like bipolar and borderline with mood swings, sudden emotional outbursts, over-reactions, and seemingly lots of drama. borderline in adulthood is strongly associated with traumatic abuse in childhood. your instincts are right, you should be very careful about X and support your daughter taking a very slow and careful treatment approach with a highly experienced provider (15-20 years). bless you for your courage. 
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| Can't Stop Crying, shezbut
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#5
Jun 03, 2011, 07:32 PM
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I have just begun remember details about past sexual abuse. It is definitely possible. From your story, if your daughter is starting to think it might have happened, chances are it did. And "X" seems like he is avoiding something. That is an extremely weird response to being asked about sexually abusing a child. Also, in most cases, kids who sexually abuse other kids are just acting out behaviors that were acted upon them. That alone makes me think something happened between your daughter and "X". I agree, just find her a good therapist and I think eventually it will all come out.
BTW, I think you are an awesome mom for worrying and trying to figure this all out. It's obvious you care very much about your daughter. |
| Can't Stop Crying
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#6
Jun 03, 2011, 07:40 PM
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It sounds like your daughter was most probably abused... and I think you should be proud of her that, unlike so many people, she's openly admitted to the issue with her brother. I really think that you should consider getting him some kind of counselling as well.
Even if she was hypersexual as a child, that's no reason for X to abuse her... it could be that she's traumatised because her memories are chaotic and muddled, and she can't remember what happened completely. Regarding repressed memories, every time my brother and I meet up, we remind each other of something we'd forgotten. He'll remember one detail, I'll remember another... our childhood is pretty much a fractured patchwork of a thing. No sexual abuse, thank God. My advice is, don't blame yourself, seek help for your whole family, and cut X out completely. If at all possible prosecute him, but if not, then at least report him to the police, so that they can keep an eye out in case any other sexual misdemenour occurs.
__________________
Here I sit so patiently Waiting to find out what price You have to pay to get out of Going through all these things twice. |
| Can't Stop Crying
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#7
Jun 04, 2011, 12:18 AM
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I have siblings who repressed memories until well into their adulthood. The mind tries to protect us from the things we couldn't cope with and "fragments" start appearing when you feel like you are safe. I never repressed most of my memories, but I do find as I process them in therapy, some of the details that were once fuzzy have started to become more clear/detailed. I agree with all the other posts...she really needs to seek a professional who specializes in trauma to understand where these thoughts and feelings are coming from. I don't like X's response either...if someone accused me of abusing a child, I would probably start laughing because it is so absurd to me to think that someone would think I was capable of that. Great job in supporting your daughter.. no matter what the outcome, it is awesome that you are helping her and healing is definitely possible!
__________________
 Children's talent to endure stems from their ignorance of alternatives. ~ Maya Angelou Thank you SadNEmpty for my avatar and signature.
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#8
Jun 04, 2011, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Children and people with mental/emotional problems are very prone to suggestibility. As for the family member who thought something inappropriate was going on with your daughter and "X" I'd take that with a grain of salt. I come from a large family and I don't recall any checking for erections going on at family functions where children were sitting in laps. That just sounds a little odd to me. About the reaction by "X" when you confronted him...yes that seems questionable. But I honestly couldn't tell you how I'd react in his place. I don't mean to downplay the trauma of a victim of sexual abuse but I think that an innocent person accused of sexual abuse is going to be pretty traumatized. I'm thinking of the false memory cases of the 80's and 90's where people's lives were ruined over false accusations and suggestions planted in the minds of the impressionable. Obviously I don't know what happened here but I think people are very quick to accuse and convict without sufficient evidence. I wish you and your daughter (and your son) the best
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#9
Jun 04, 2011, 12:23 PM
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I had muliple instances of sexual abuse that took place from age 8-13 and then another trauma at 17. From what my counselors told me at the time it's common for people to do that - sometimes our minds do this because they just can't handle what has happened. Once the memories come out, the symptoms that come out are probably different for everyone - I experienced major PTSD and depression - it's hard for me to remember all of my dx at the time - it was back in early 90s that the memories came back - definitely flashbacks but I can certainly imagine it could manifest as borderline or bipolar. I am so sorry your family is going through this. |
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#10
Jun 05, 2011, 10:18 AM
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i re-read dan siegel's great book "mindsight" and the chapter on trauma explains how implicit memories are formed in abuse situations and then are not accessible later. when implicit memories become explicit, that is they are accessible to voluntary recall, then people begin to report what actually happened to them but were blocked from consciously remembering because traumatic events get stored differently in the brain in dire situations.
it's important to be clear about "false accusations." first, look at the research, repressed memories are real and recalled memories are not fabricated. second, there are FAR more cases of real and awful neglect and abuse that social workers don't even have time to investigate than there are cases where someone with serious issues actually makes up an entire abuse event. the fakes get all the press, so people think they are common when they are NOT. again, just look at the actual reported events research. third, the excuse "something may have happened but i don't recall" is common among abusers--99% of whom deny abusing even with DNA evidence. so they cover themselves if someone saw them abusing by saying they don't remember and they create a built in insanity defense if they are charged by saying "i must have been dissociating--i don't remember a thing!" think about it. let's say someone came up to you and said "you tortured animals when you were 15 (or 25 or 35)." if you were innocent, you would never answer "maybe, but i don't recall" or "that was never proven." that's what guilty people say. because if you did something heinous (and you don't have a psychotic disorder where you really lost contact with reality), if you harmed someone (not if someone harmed you and you were in pain and horror and terror) then you would unfortunately never forget your awful deed. and if in fact you were guilty, you would also never forget because you got off on it! (gross as that is to reveal.) we have to stop minimizing the shocking prevalence of abuse. we have to focus on facing this ugly crime and how increasingly it occurs, not focus on the tiny minority of cases where it is proven that allegations were false. false accusations are unjust of course, but they are usually proven so, and besides, the prevalence of daily neglect and abuse is overwhelmingly more common. we should all stand up and fight against crimes against children, stop looking away because we are horrified. that avoidance is what abusers count on to cover their crimes. we can make a difference, like Joy is by facing this desperate situation and bravely pushing for the truth! we support you and your family! |
| Imminence, jazzy123456, Joy1010, shezbut
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#11
Jun 06, 2011, 11:07 PM
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First, I am so glad you are looking for help for your daughter and not disowning her because of her admitted abuse of her brother. Second, I agree with others comments -- it is really important for your son to get help, too. Boys can have a more difficult time expressing their complex emotions. He may need a good male therapist/father figure (especially if his father is out of the picture) for him to feel comfortable talking about sexual issues. But don’t doubt the depth of his confusion and anxiety and distress. Third, I agree with the suggestion that you need an experienced sexual trauma specialist for your daughter, someone who won’t push your daughter to decide if what comes up is a memory or not. The fact is, disturbing images, uncomfortable feelings about a certain person, nightmares, anger… gut feelings that something is “not quite right” all suggest that yes, something is or was not quite right. Regardless of whether your daughter can definitively state that X abused her or not, she is obviously in a lot of psychological distress and that can be the focus.
In my experience, over and over again my “gut feelings” and partial memories or flashbacks have been supported by other family members’ full memories of abuse by that same person. But I still hesitate to call my unclear “pieces” -- memories. My T points out that small children don’t have the words to identify their experiences and their feelings even to themselves; early memories of abuse can involve more smells and body sensations than clearly formed images or articulated thoughts about what was happening. This doesn’t help you much….so maybe just support and love your children and, if you don’t have to prove anything legally, then put aside the concern about fact and proof and accept that your daughter’s feelings now are real, her distress now is real. Just don’t forget your son; boys brood deeply and hurt deeply. I know only too well. |
| mgran, shezbut
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#12
Jun 07, 2011, 03:45 PM
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((Joy1010))
I have struggled with memories from my childhood ever since I was a small child. It sounds strange, but I automatically stuffed events away inside. On the outside, I seemed pretty normal to my parents ~ until I was 15/16 years-old and I used every possible technique shouting for help. It was like a 180 degree change in everything. During my late teens, I worked to overcome the foolish decisions that I had made earlier. In so doing, I came forward with memories that bothered me. Kind of like snapshot pix inside my brain, and they were teamed with strong emotions. The emotions are terror and self-hate. I have been working through things for more than 20 years now. My memories have slowly become more solid as I let myself feel the emotions that were stirred up. Sadly, it's just the past two years that I have let myself feel the pain, fear, and anger ~ which is my attempt to finally get off this merry-go-round! For a very long time, I didn't trust my memories. I questioned ALL of the memories that I had. I couldn't trust anything. Developing some sense of self and trust in memories is not an overnight process. What made me feel more confident, more trustful of my memory, is that my parents recall me coming to them several times over the years to tell them about the sexual abuse. I don't recall telling them ~ but I have 4 or 5 times since I was five-years old. Me repressing those memories isn't unusual. For me, that goes with everything else. I tried to get help when events occurred, but "help" didn't change anything for me. My experiences were minimized because I was so vague in explanation. I wish your family the best in working through the past. It isn't easy, or fun, for any of us to do. It is great that your daughter has the confidence to discuss things with her brother. Her acting out what X taught her is common. I hope that you all are able to develop some feelings of closure and acceptance. (I am still struggling with those 2 myself.) Oh yeah! ~ just so you know, I do have strong BPD traits, PTSD, major depression, as well as epilepsy -- and am a traumatic brain injury survivor. We are all individuals, experiencing different things in life. So, it can be tough to generalize and diagnose complex cases. And most people are complex ~ just like life is! Best wishes!
__________________
"Only in the darkness can you see the stars." - Martin Luther King Jr. "Forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness but because you deserve peace." - Author Unkown Last edited by shezbut; Jun 07, 2011 at 03:51 PM. Reason: added a quick point |
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#13
Jun 07, 2011, 04:20 PM
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Just a quick question... how are you doing? I can imagine you're feeling quite alone and anxious right now. Just to let you know, you're not alone.
__________________
Here I sit so patiently Waiting to find out what price You have to pay to get out of Going through all these things twice. |
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#14
Jun 07, 2011, 05:16 PM
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I was sexually abused over the course of approximately 6 months when I was 11/12 years old. It wasn't until I was 28 and in therapy did I remember that he actually raped me. I always knew/remembered some of the touching and other things but the rape was suppressed for years. So it's definitely possible.
Since your daughter is an adult, there is not much you can do for her in terms of treatment. Just be encouraging, supportive, and always there for her.
__________________
Amanda |
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#15
Jun 07, 2011, 05:39 PM
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hi im new to all this so please bear with me . my girlfriend suffers from PTSD and i dont have a clue how to help her can anyone give me advise please many thanks .
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#16
Jun 07, 2011, 07:14 PM
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Thank you all for your heartfelt responses. One person asked if I questioned my daughter about "X" before or after she 'thought something may have happened'. Yes, I did question her before. I questioned her after X made those disturbing comments. And yes, it did cross my mind that her mental situation has been very unstable for the past couple years and did I say something to 'put that thought there?". Yes, I suppose that is a possibility, but I also think it's very possible something DID happen, and as the last person said - ' the thought is so horrific' is a part of me not wanting to believe this? I want to know the truth, for my daughter's sake, so she can deal wth her issues and try to move on with her life. If I had proof that something happened, yes I would press charges, but I don't have proof. I have suspicions. The sickening, sad thing is that my daughter lives with "X" - her choice - along with her younger brother. "X" is her father . She moved in wth him because she was so angry with me for not allowing her to smoke pot in our home -- so she went to move in with him because he allowed her to. I am so sad because it's like he is conditioning the kids (well , adult kids now) to be dependent on him. There is no incentive for them to strive to do better with their lives. (my son does not work, and basically goes to school part time only). They think their dad 'understands them' better because he gives them more liberties to do what they want... and he buys them things - but funny enough he lives like a pauper - in a rundown rental house, keeps the place quite dirty unless my daughter cleans it -- a part of her hates it there but she likes the freedom he gives her . I have been told by my doctor and the therapist I was seeing that there is nothing I can do about anything because both kids are over age 18. I am told my daughter must want to get help and sort out her issues and that I cannot do it for her. I know that in my head. But in my heart -- I feel like I've let her down some way - if she was abused as a child - I didn't recognize it and let it happen - and that is something I will have to live with - how can a mother not see something like that? So now if there is something I can do to help her get thru this , I will. She has been reaching out to me a bit more lately... wanting to spend time with me... which is good. Again, thank you all for your replies.
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| insightunseen
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#17
Jun 08, 2011, 04:29 PM
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Thank you for defining who X is, because it does complicate things a lot. Unfortunately, your children are now adults and can legally leave their father's house. I can clearly visualize the situation, which sends my tummy in tumbles as I put myself in your daughter's shoes. I developed a lot of self-hate and blame in my teen years ~ as I often put myself in a bad place (with one of my sexual abusers) for 2 years or so, to avoid chaos in my house & be with my "safe person" (my aunt, whose hub abused me). It's complicated. As an adult, I kick myself over and over for puting myself in the position to be abused. It's easy to forget that I had a child's mind when I made the decision/s to flee my house. It is great that you and your daughter are talking more frequently now. I would encourage you to approach your daughter's memories lightly. For example: "I have been thinking about things that happened with X, when you were __. How have you worked through things, to make yourself feel better?" See how she responds. Maybe she hasn't worked through the feelings completely, and feels kind of cornered. That's an important time when you can be there for your daughter emotionally. I would imagine that is isn't easy to hear things that happened when you were still living together as a family. You could share your sorrow and empathy with your daughter ~ so she knows that you do care. Encourage your daughter to see a T, to work through her emotions more easily. Seeing a T, to work things out is less messy ~ as emotions don't get mixed into the conversations by both sides and complicating things further. You may also want to look for online resources for your daughter to refer to. Incest does have lots of informative and supportive sights, like Psych Central. You're in my thoughts, Joy1010.
__________________
"Only in the darkness can you see the stars." - Martin Luther King Jr. "Forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness but because you deserve peace." - Author Unkown |
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#18
Jun 09, 2011, 09:43 PM
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This is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.|
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