My Life So Far & A Question (long)

Hello to everyone who reads this. I would like to tell you about my childhood and life, and then I have some questions about my daughter. I would appreciate your insight and advice.

I was born one of four daughters to parents who fit the "self-absorbed parents" descriptions. My mother and father have always been incapable of giving or receiving love. My mother used to lock us out of the house so she could rest and have her nap. We lived in a very hot climate and had no food or water during the day. My oldest sister took care of us even though she was just a child herself, and she also protected us by taking us out of the room and calming us when my father threatened to kill my mother numerous times while holding a gun to her head. My mother tried to commit suicide on several occasions; her preferred way to was try to jump out of the moving car while we screamed and tried to hold onto her. My parents were always fighting and yelling at each other, and after some of the fights, my mother would wake us up during the night and beat us; that is how she tried to deal with her anger. I developed asthma and night terrors, and eventually stopped sleeping. My parents are now in their mid- to late-80's and do not understand why their children have so many health and emotional problems. My oldest sister and I have a myriad of health problems and she has lived ten years past what the doctors predicted she would survive. My other two sisters have mental problems, mainly with drug additions, abusive spouses, and behavioral disorders (including self-abuse). My oldest sister is the only other sane person in my family, and we have talked to great length over the years about our childhood and what happened to us. When I talk to my other sisters, which is rare, I have to watch everything I say because they will twist my words to try to gain acceptance from my parents. Even if I say nothing at all incriminating, they will make something up to try to show my parents how awful I am and how much better they are. Years ago, I approached my mother a couple of times to try to talk about my childhood. She told me my childhood was great and that kids don't remember things correctly.

I was cooking the family dinner every night when I was seven. Every weekend I mowed our one-acre lawn (it took five hours) and on the other weekend day I mopped the hardwood floors (entire house) and every other weekend, mopped and waxed them. I cleaned both bathrooms every weekend, too, and dusted all the furniture every week. I did not have any time to be a kid. Whenever I said something "fresh" my mother would punch me in the mouth, sometimes she would beat me until I was bruised all over, and if my father was really mad he would whip me with his belt and the belt buckle. All four of us were treated this way, and my oldest sister was held responsible (and still is) for anything that was wrong with the family.

Years ago, I realized that I will never experience a mother or father's love, and it was difficult to deal with but I've accepted the fact. I also stopped trying to win their love because it is impossible to do so. I try to be a good daughter, though, and when I talk to them or, on rare occasions see them, I treat them with kindness and respect because I feel every living thing deserves this, and they are the people who gave me life after all. They have told me I'm the least favorite daughter, probably because I live across the country from them and don't try to get their approval any more. My last hope for love from my mother was asking her to be with me when my baby was scheduled to be born (cesarean) since we had just moved to a new part of the country for my husband's work, and my husband was concerned that if he was there, he would be a liability by fainting or something, and I respected his feelings. My mother said, no, she didn't want to do that! A wife of my husband's colleague offered to be with me, when my own mother wouldn't. (It turns out our daughter was early and my husband stayed by my side and didn't faint after all.)

My parents have money, and they have always used it as a tool to try to keep their adult children close. I broke free of the money-hold when I went to University, and got, on my own, an undergraduate and then master's degree. I would not accept their money for school although it would have been no sacrifice on their part. If I had accepted their money, I would have had to go back home during the summers and I had vowed never to return there to live, and I never have. I wanted to legally divorce my family (except for my oldest sister) four years ago, but a friend talked me out of it, saying that I deserved any inheritance I might get after what I have gone through.

I am now the happiest I've ever been in my life. I have a loving and supportive husband of 15 years. We are rational, kind, and loving to each other. We make each other laugh. We have the same outlook on life and the same priorities, and the few bumps we've encountered on the way in our relationship, we have worked through and been stronger together for it. We are struggling to save for the down payment to buy our first home (and my mother has told me that they could write out a check for the deposit for us without ever noticing the money was gone, but without offering to do so).

We also have an amazingly intelligent, beautiful, funny, talented ten year-old daughter that we waited a long time for. She was very close to my mother up until about three years ago, when my mother started do to her what she's done to her children (constant criticism and guilt). The event that "turned" my mother was the last time she visited. She was screaming at me while I was driving, and my daughter took up for me. When we got home, my mother smeared her feces all over our bathroom, shower curtain, and towels.

My question now is my daughter. For the past year or so, she's been very rude to me and has been lying. Her tone of voice is very rude, she'll ignore me when I talk to her or ask a question, and she'll lie about insignificant things. I have a master's degree in "Applied Learning and Development" and have had many courses on child behavior. My husband and I have tried to be loving and supportive parents, and have always tried to show our daughter respect and kindness. She is very spirited, and we have tried to guide her without crushing her spirit. We like natural consequences, but when needed, we have our own for unacceptable behavior and we follow through. My husband and I are never rude to each other, and we don't lie in our family. She has no other siblings, but lots of friends, and we usually have a friend of her choice over at least twice a week for play dates. My husband has to travel a week out of every month, so I wonder if I'm the only target she has to get out her frustrations. We don't punish her for lying, but we let her know that lying cuts the ties between those we love. We call her on the rudeness, and it gets better temporarily, but then it comes again.

I feel so awful when she's rude and lies to me. I try not to, but I feel that she doesn't love me when she does this, and if my parents don't love me, and my daughter doesn't, maybe it's me and I am doing something to bring this on myself. I pretty down at the moment about this.

Sorry for the long post.

For the past year or so, she's been very rude to me and has been lying. Her tone of voice is very rude, she'll ignore me when I talk to her or ask a question, and she'll lie about insignificant things.

Its called puberty. Her body and body hormones and chemiclas are probably starting to change.

I was told by my sons therapist puberty starts now sometimes as young as 8 years old. It starts with hormonal and chemical changes in the body that make the child irritable and the go through lots of mood switching. one day they are happy and easy to get along with the next everything is a battle and the battles grow sometimes until the child turns 18 and moves out on their own.

Talk with your child or get her into therapy so that she has someone to talk to about what is going on.

and in my opinion telling a child that lying cuts the ties with those we love would be telling a child if you lie I will not love you, and something is wrong with you so I can't love you anymore.

so maybe she is telling lies because she thinks you don't love her anymore so why bother telling the truth now anyway.

Suggestion instead of saying - "telling lies cuts the ties of those we love" how about just saying that with everything we do there are consequences and rewards. good choices gets rewards and making bad choices gets cosequences. When we do our jobs we get promoted, more money, we don't do our work we get fired and no money. When we tell the truth we get rewards of being believed, and trusted, people have a hard time believing and trusting someone who tells lies. then the person has to work real hard to gain back other peoples trust and belief.

that way she knows there are rewards and consequences in life and if she chooses to lie then to expect to have to earn back that trust you have for her. and she won't see telling lies as loosing your unconditional love that is supposed to be there in a child - parent relationship. She also won't grow up thinking something is wrong with her because she told lies as a kid.

hang in there

Welcome.. and I agree. it is the age thing.. my son went through it too... he is 16 now and so i am dealing with the teenage rudeness...

All you can do is teach her it is wrong and hurtful to lie.. and that is causes you to have a hard time trusting her... and with the rudeness.. a told my son if he wanted me to do things for him. he was going to have to learn to be nicer to me...

When you grow up in a world where nothing makes sense, and its not even close to being a normal way of life..its hard to know what is normal...I have found that out with my son and his behavior...

I never learned how to be a normal little girl.. or teenager... was never really allowed to be. so i didn't know what was normal for him either ya know..

Stay with it.. follow your instinct...You wil be fine.. and so will she..

I feel your pain , I have 4 kids myself. My advice is this .
First ,this has alot to do with puberty I am sure . Girls start this jouney much younger than most of us did , for some reason . Second she is testing your limits , a normal right of passage . Remember though that she is looking for her boundries . Are you going to set them ? She needs your strength and guidence now more than ever . We all remember how confusing and painfull puberty was . Give her guidlines and be sure about it . As My self said she needs to learn the consequnces of her actions . You can not trust her if she lies . If you can not trust her then her freedom will be limited until she earns that trust back .
Finaly , You are not bringing this on yourself . Your post descibred a very loving and respectfull inviroment . I am sure your child loves you . After all you went through as a child you still love your parents the best you can , and none of what you went through is being repeated in your house .
I think it is very healthy for a child to look to her parents for guidence and this is what is going on . I think your concern is even healthier for a caring Mother .
Dont doubt yourself , It may be that she choses you over her father because she senses your doubt and her behavior works better on you than her father.
Take care and give yourself more credit , sounds like you do your best to raise your child with love and respect .

Take care and best wishes,
Sher

Sorry to hear about your childhood and relationships with your parents and most of your family of origen. When you didn't have good role models for how to be a good parent, it makes it much harder to know how to parent your own children, and more tendency to second-guess yourself and to worry when something seems to be going wrong.

I agree that what your daughter is going through is most likely developmental. At 10 years old it is normal for a child's peers to be more important to them than their parents. That is a very uncomfortable position for parents to be in. I would switch tactics on what to tell her about lying. You had to cut your ties to your parents in order to establish your independence and freedom (I did too, so I really relate to that). That isn't what you want your daughter to feel that she needs to do though. I can see where that image would be very strong for you because when your family lied you felt more need to get away, probably. And you established your independence not by lying but by setting boundaries and just not going back to give them another chance to reel you back in.

Instead of cutting the ties, I would teach that lying tangles you up and restricts your freedom. When your family lied to you, it pushed you away but it also restricted their options to be able to have you around. When a child lies, nobody trusts them, and they have to be watched more closely, and they don't get to go and do things on their own as much. Also, they keep having to work harder to maintain and/or remember their story so that they don't get caught. I do a demonstration where a volunteer holds one end of a ball of yarn, and you ask them questions, and they have been instructed each time to answer with a lie. Every time they lie, you wrap the yarn around them once. You get the visual of being tangled up, and it becomes clear that it gets harder and harder for your subject to make up answers that don't contradict what they have already said.

I just wanted to add that, and welcome you to PC.

Rap

Hello, boy am I no expert on this! Lying is very hard for me. I have always told my kids that telling the truth no matter how horrible it might be is better then the consequences of a lie. Loss of trust etc.

I would be very clear with her that it's not okay to speak to you like that. You treat her with respect and you expect the same.

In non-heated moments I would speak to her about stuff that she is doing from a mother's perspective. Meaning, get her to think like a parent just don't give her the answers.

Lastly, kids need a sense of belonging. She doesn't belong to your family and she knows this, be honest with her as much as she can understand. Don't scare her. Help her find other community. Art, theater, music, sports, clubs. Help her to have a good relationship with family members who are safe. Reach out to school mates and friends and help her get involved. It makes a difference. Good Luck. BTW you didn't ask but if I saw someone smear feces like that I would call them on it, make them clean it and call rescue if they got out of control. It's a sick thing to do. It would show how looney she is.

Siblings, yuck, why can't we all deal with stuff the same instead of some sucking up and ignoring the reality? They have chosen different realities. Good luck. You can see this resonated with me.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

I forgot to list that our daughter is also very loving. I guess when I posted I wasn't feeling that so much... Your advice was very good and I didn't realize about the "cutting ties" issues I had, and I agree it's not the right image to give her. She's hasn't been lying this week at all, and has been considerate and helpful, and we've been having a fun time together getting ready for Halloween. I think maybe the two of us need a serious talk about rudeness every three months or so. Her daddy came home Tuesday and that always puts both of us in a better mood, too!

I was in a low spot when I wrote, and your suggestions and encouragement have really helped. I also had coffee with a couple of girlfriends, my mother hasn't called me lately, and with my husband home, things are good! Thanks again for helping out someone you don't even know.

(((((((( SwampWitch ))))))))