[alexjumper79]

I was always uncomfortable with my dad growing up. I hated his long hugs and he would always pat my butt when I walked by or sometimes when hugging. I don't remember this but my sister told me that dad used to walk around naked when we were really young and we had a nickname for his penis. (Turkey) That disturbs me... There was a time when I was a teenager where I sat next to him on the couch and he put his hand down the back of my pants inside my underwear and I could feel his fingers in my crack, I felt frozen and couldn't move for some time. I finally jumped up and went to my room. He also once came up behind me and moved my hair aside and kissed me up my shoulder and neck to my cheek, it felt really bad. He also made comments about my body when I started getting breasts. I tried to hide under large sweatshirts and tshirts, it made me hate my body. One big thing that bothers me is when I was young I remember he wanted me to sit on his lap and play with his nipples. (on more than one occasion) I felt uncomfortable and I don't remember how old I was or what he was wearing. He wore his underwear a lot in the house with sometimes a robe on. I never realized that men could be turned on by that until recently...so now I'm freaking out that he could have been turned on by that. Ugh! So I guess I'm asking if that would be considered abuse?

[gmts]

Yes, most definetely abuse. I'm very sorry for you.

[gmts]

How is or was your parents' marriage?

[alexjumper79]

Originally Posted by gmts

How is or was your parents' marriage?

They fought a lot, they weren't happy. My mom kicked my dad out of the house a few times overnight but he always came back. Once I left the house and got married, my parents divorced. I'm surprised they didn't get divorced when I was a teenager, but they did talk about it at times. Now my dad seems obsessed with me, calls a lot, texts, messages. I've told him to give me space on many occasions but he just doesn't get it. Going to take my husband and talk to him together about giving us space. He's very intrusive and has to know everything we are doing. Frustrating!

[gmts]

Here are my thoughts about it:

what you describe, sounds a bit like "surrogate spouse" to me.

Some of the things you describe might be considered as "only" inappropriate behavior due to being insensitive or thoughtless. However, this kissing from behind and touching your bare butt most definetely crosses the line.

This is what I do to my wife sometimes. Long and tight hugs, touching her butt with my hand inside her pants. At times trying to seduce her, but often only because I love her and I enjoy to feel her body and enjoy this intimate moment without any current sexual desire.

Your question was if your father was turned on by doing that to you. Maybe yes, maybe not. Maybe he was rather taking that from you what his wife refused to him. Which would be quite likely given that the marriage was in bad shape. And today being obsessed and intrusive would just match the idea of "surrogate spouse" or "emotional incest". If you haven't heard about those terms, try googling it, you will find plenty of information about it.

But what you exactly want to call it, which term you exactly want to use here is maybe not that important. What is important for sure:

- his behavior then and today is totally unacceptable and most definetely not "normal".
- it made you then very uncomfortable and icky, for very good reasons
- it makes you very uncomfortable today.

I can't tell you what to do now and where to go from here, but you definetely can't accept or tolerate what's going on. Wishing you all the best!

[alexjumper79]

OH MY GOSH!! I looked up those terms and yes that pretty much explains it...wow. Thank you so much for that information. Thank you for the validation as well. Appreciate it greatly! I don't look forward to the talk with my dad but it needs to happen. You are right it can't continue like this. It's driving me and my husband mad.

Originally Posted by gmts

Here are my thoughts about it:

what you describe, sounds a bit like "surrogate spouse" to me.

Some of the things you describe might be considered as "only" inappropriate behavior due to being insensitive or thoughtless. However, this kissing from behind and touching your bare butt most definetely crosses the line.

This is what I do to my wife sometimes. Long and tight hugs, touching her butt with my hand inside her pants. At times trying to seduce her, but often only because I love her and I enjoy to feel her body and enjoy this intimate moment without any current sexual desire.

Your question was if your father was turned on by doing that to you. Maybe yes, maybe not. Maybe he was rather taking that from you what his wife refused to him. Which would be quite likely given that the marriage was in bad shape. And today being obsessed and intrusive would just match the idea of "surrogate spouse" or "emotional incest". If you haven't heard about those terms, try googling it, you will find plenty of information about it.

But what you exactly want to call it, which term you exactly want to use here is maybe not that important. What is important for sure:

- his behavior then and today is totally unacceptable and most definetely not "normal".
- it made you then very uncomfortable and icky, for very good reasons
- it makes you very uncomfortable today.

I can't tell you what to do now and where to go from here, but you definetely can't accept or tolerate what's going on. Wishing you all the best!

[gmts]

I'm glad it was helpful for you. Please be aware that he is very likely to go into denial and get very defensive when you confront him. This is a rather covert form of abuse that can only work "in the dark" and wants to remain in the dark. Things can turn out quite ugly when you flick on the lights. You might want to consider professional help with this.

Of course nobody can know, but given my own personal experiences I consider it not very likely that you can have a nice, smooth talk with him where at the end he will nod, smile, agree and promise to do better in the future. This is not like talking to your husband about squeezing the toothpaste from the end instead from the middle.

What do you know about his relationship with his parents ? What did your mother do about the abuse back then ? Did she know about it ? Did you ever tell her ? How is your relationship with her today ?

[alexjumper79]

Honestly I don't know if I even want to bring up the abuse. I do know I want to set some boundaries, which I know will upset him. I don't "think" my mom knew, I never told her or anyone until I got married and shared it with my husband. I wish I had. My dad's parents died before I was born so I never met them, but my dad has said on multiple occasions that he wishes his father had told him he loved him more. He didn't feel loved by them and now he says he "will make sure my girls know how much I love them at all times!" So he's gone the other direction. My mom has severe anxiety and depression, and has kind of become a different person, I don't feel I can talk to her either about things such as this.

I just started going to therapy so I can talk to my therapist about all this and get his help. Going tomorrow to talk with him. Thank you again!

[gmts]

Originally Posted by alexjumper79

Honestly I don't know if I even want to bring up the abuse. I do know I want to set some boundaries, which I know will upset him.

I perfectly understand. You don't necessarily have to bring up the old things, but the abuse is still going on today, even if it is in a different shape.

Pls let me know what you therapist thinks about it.

[alexjumper79]

Originally Posted by gmts

I perfectly understand. You don't necessarily have to bring up the old things, but the abuse is still going on today, even if it is in a different shape.

Pls let me know what you therapist thinks about it.

Thank you I will.

[alexjumper79]

Pls let me know what you therapist thinks about it.[/QUOTE]

So I talked to my therapist today, shared some stories from childhood, and he agreed and said Psychological Emotional Incest. He gave me some tips on talking with my dad. Looks like it will be Monday when I sit down with him and my husband and go over some boundaries. He said it's like laying cards on the table, what we want, and then my dad lays his cards down, what he wants. Then we negotiate. Should be interesting. Not going to bring up the abuse just tell him to back off and give us privacy in a nice way. We have to set some clear boundaries and how often for him to contact us, etc. Wish us luck!! Thank you!

[gmts]

That's great to hear and I wish you all the best luck. I really don't mean to discourage you, but pls be prepared for some frustration, this might not be a "one-timer". You are about to change the whole game, the whole family system. I don't know why you are in therapy at the moment, but it is your father who should be doing therapy to tackle his unresolved childhood issues.

Maybe you want to look at youtube for example at "John Bradshaw The Persecuted Family". This guy comes over extremely obnoxious to me with the way how he talks and poses. However, what he has to say is extremely amazing, it has enlightened my incredibly.

Good luck !

[alexjumper79]

Yeah, I realize the hugeness of this. I'm scared, but it needs to be done. I started therapy for depression and anxiety. I'd even been having suicidal thoughts a lot. Thinking of recommending my dad see a therapist as well...but I don't know how he'd take that. We'll see. I will look up that video, thanks.

[alexjumper79]

Wow, I watched a few of those John Bradshaw videos, does that explain it well!!! It's crazy that I never really knew that my parents were abusive. I can see it now how my mom used me for her emotional needs and then my dad as well. I was like the parent to them at times. Here all these years I've felt that something was wrong with me, I'm 38 and feel completely worthless as a human being. Another reason that I am in therapy...I have no sense of self, no self worth, I always knew there was something wrong with me. Here it turns out it wasn't me at all. I always thought it was me. So eye opening! Now to figure out how to live. Thank you again for all the info. Greatly appreciate it.

[gmts]

Originally Posted by alexjumper79

Here all these years I've felt that something was wrong with me, I'm 38 and feel completely worthless as a human being. Another reason that I am in therapy...I have no sense of self, no self worth, I always knew there was something wrong with me. Here it turns out it wasn't me at all. I always thought it was me. So eye opening! Now to figure out how to live.

Yes I relate a Lot to that. My Story is a Bit different, but I also feel just like that. I'm not at Home right now and I hate typing on this small Phone but I will get back to you in a few days

[alexjumper79]

I'm sorry you can relate. Hope you have a good new years.

[gmts]

I'm glad you liked the videos. May I ask how the meeting with your father went ?

As for myself, at times I feel like being remote controlled and living someone else's life. I just don't have any sense of self, of who I really am.