Another great article on emotional abuse:

https://www.bustle.com/p/11-signs-yo...-you-now-63129

[eskielover]

This really points out the difference between emotional abuse & emotional neglect.....helped me understand the difference.

Yep. And emotional neglect is just as insidious as emotional abuse.

[eskielover]

Just that neglect comes from a more passive place at times of just not being knowing or capable.

Reflecting back on my dad's behaviors growing up before ASD was ever known about we're definitely ASD. Lack of Emotional connection is one of the behavior characteristics & didn't have the knowledge it was missing just the feeling......while at the same time my mom's self-esteem was so low she was incapable of emotionally connecting too. Both caused emotional neglect in the textbook sense only it was NOT done by intentionally withholding emotional support it was done because they weren't mentally capable of giving what was really needed EVEN if they did the best they could the result was the same..emotional neglect.

It's interesting looking back all those years (64 years old & my parents died many years ago) & finally having words that explain my growing up experience.....makes the picture more understanding

My dad passed away when I was young and my mother's still alive, and still emotionally abusing. When it comes to both of their emotional abuse and neglect to me and my siblings, I'm far less compassionate than you are, eskie. I won't make excuses for them like "they did the best they could." Well, they didn't do the best they could. You have a choice and if you are an intelligent person, you can choose to improve yourself. And if your own children are reflecting back to you that your behavior as a parent is abusive, even in the emotional and verbal way, then you can choose to stop emotionally abusing your children, or you can ignore their pleas to you to stop abusing them, and continue to abuse them. Sorry, but parents shouldn't be given a free pass of "oh, they didn't know any better." They know. They just choose not to care. That's the problem.

[eskielover]

They know. They just choose not to care.

i agree when it comes to ABUSE....its not so black & white when it comes to neglect though the outcome of both can be very similar.

There are some conditions that are so a part of how the mind works like with ASD that the only way to get along is to adapt to their ways which does leave one open to ALL the negative aspects of their condition which is not a choice they actually made. We hate to think that any mental condition could possibly cause problems to their children growing up & that LOVE covers all problems but it doesn't. That is why so many dysfunctional parents having kids only creates more dysfunction, neglect.

I do ALSO believe that there is NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE & no one even those with mental limitations can't learn that abusive behaviors are NOT ACCEPTABLE. The problem is that they have to be around someone who will call them on their abusive behavior because if they grew up around it, they themselves see it as NORMAL...& NO, mental limitations is no excuse for abusive behavior. If it is then the person should not have kids in the first place & should be wise enough to know better.

Believe me. I tried with my parents to call them on their abusive behavior when I was growing up, from a young adult to middle-aged adult. Abusers won't change, because they don't want to give up their sense of power, because they need someone to scapegoat and take their problems out on, they want to be the center of attention, with priority given to their needs and not their victims' needs, and to have financial control. Then there's the incentive of double standards they get to project on to their victims (comparing children to each other, comparing an ex to a current girl/boyfriend etc.), and for public approval (best parent, best spouse, best worker, etc.).

[eskielover]

I tried with my parents to call them on their abusive behavior when I was growing up, from a young adult to middle-aged adult.

sadly people like this don't listen to family let alone the person they are abusing. Being called out needs to come from a trusted outsider.

Growing up I never listened to what my parents said but when it came from an outsider I respected....I would listen.

Though many times abusive people are so convinced their behavior is not wrong that no one can get through to them & yes, all those reasons you stated become involved.

I could also see in my own personal situation where I responded in my marriage in an abusive way to what I felt was abuse to me. Problem in cases like that....two wrongs don't make a right. It would have been much better to have forced the divorce than allowing the marriage to get to that point.

[Zedsdead]

I never looked towards my upbringing as a reference regarding my tendency to be in abusive relationships as an adult until my therapist brought to light that my upbringing wasn't okay.
I was the red headed step child, quite literally. My parents were neglectful and downright cruel at times and I always thought until recently I had a mental illness.
I work hard not to continue the cycle with my own children and I am confident we have a trusting, loving relationship.
I will never be able to change my past but I am determined to not repeat it!!!

[eskielover]

It is important to learn from our past. Sometimes we learn later in life & in trying to correct something we didn't like in our childhood creat a whole new set of issues in our own family....but after we learn it's important to communicate what we did learn & provide a connection from that point on even if our children are then adults.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by eskielover

It is important to learn from our past. Sometimes we learn later in life & in trying to correct something we didn't like in our childhood creat a whole new set of issues in our own family....but after we learn it's important to communicate what we did learn & provide a connection from that point on even if our children are then adults.

But here's the thing about dysfunctional families, eskie, the abusing members don't care and won't change just because their victim changes. After my dad died, we went to family therapy...which lasted for 3 months of weekly visits until my abusive mother decided she didn't like hearing from her three children (her victims) about the impact her abuse had on them.

Did that alter her behavior to be more loving and less abusive? No, in fact it escalated her abuse to the point where the three of us cut off contact with her at the same time to distance ourselves from her toxic behavior. And the family therapy didn't even bring my siblings and I closer. It created a further divide between us to the point where I am permanently estranged from my brother who physically abused me when we were younger.

So, I don't think it is realistic at all to suggest that abuse victims can create positive change within their family system by openly discussing their abuse. It hasn't worked that way for me and my mother is still an emotional abuser who is worse now than she's ever been. She has never apologized for her abuse, let alone acknowledge that she has been abusive. And she never will. Abusers who do acknowledge their problem of being abusive, do so on a pathological level; they gain MORE control over you by appearing to lose control over you, because they feign remorse and guilt to their victim, which triggers the codependent behavior in the victim to apologize to the abuser for being abused, so that the abuser maintains control over their victim. See how that dysfunctional pattern works?

[eskielover]

I wasn't talking about changing the abusive person, I was talking about changing our future so we don't end up or continue following in the abusive ways that we grew up in. We can't change the past or the abusive person unless a miracle happens (not usual with abusive people) but we don't have to follow in their path.....THAT WE CAN CHANGE.

Abuse victims are the last person capable of changing the abusive person because of the dominance relation that exists in the eyes of the abuser. Only possible chance would be for someone THEY RESPECT to confront them. Obviously the abuser doesn't respect who they abuse or they wouldn't be abusing them in the first place

Originally Posted by eskielover

I wasn't talking about changing the abusive person, I was talking about changing our future so we don't end up or continue following in the abusive ways that we grew up in. We can't change the past or the abusive person unless a miracle happens (not usual with abusive people) but we don't have to follow in their path.....THAT WE CAN CHANGE.

Abuse victims are the last person capable of changing the abusive person because of the dominance relation that exists in the eyes of the abuser. Only possible chance would be for someone THEY RESPECT to confront them. Obviously the abuser doesn't respect who they abuse or they wouldn't be abusing them in the first place

Ahhh. Ok now that makes sense. I wasn't sure what you meant in your previous post. Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

I will never date/marry because of the severe emotional abuse I experienced from my dad, which is ok, because the men I've dated have all emotionally abused me. So, that's the only way I can break my own cycle of being emotionally abused. I don't know if my siblings who are married with children overcame their own emotional abuse from our parents, but for me, I know that it's just not possible to overcome my past because I continue to find myself in relationships with emotionally abusive men.

[eskielover]

I understand ending up in the same kind of relatilnships we grew up in. I honestly thought my dad's problems were from lack of education so I strove to get my degree & found a guy that was educated in computers also. Thought great, no way will he be like my dad....wrong!!!

I saw red flags before the wedding but my mom (who I NEVER LISTENED to before) insisted that he would grow up & mature when he had to & i rationalized that anyone with an education couldnt possibly be like my dad.

Wow was I wrong....I was so used to lack of emotional connection & communicatiln problems with my parents that I didnt notice how not normal my fiencee actually was. I didnt understand the red flags. After staying in that marrisge 33 years too long, I will NEVER get in a relationship ever again. Though I recognize the traits & behaviors now I would never get involved with a guy that wasnt PERFECT.....& in reality, perfect guys dont exist. Alone is good...it has actually given me a good chance to integrate my past into my life with the help of my wonderful T & just learn eho I am not in relatiln to anyone else which for me has been critical because I went from college living at home to college & married at 21. Never had a time to just be me with my own values & i really like it.

Found I no longer get angry or impatient in my current environment & i feel so much better not having to be what those around me need me to be. I di what is needed & enjoy the rest of life