[msnyder11]

How to tell the difference between discipline and abuse? Modern standards Vs 60, 70 year's ago.

[Skeezyks]

Well... I don't know. I'm 70 years old. So I've been around long enough to have seen the transition. Things certainly appear to be a lot different today than they were back when I was growing up... at least outwardly. I would suspect though, if one could get into the homes of many people & see what's occurring, it probably wouldn't actually be that much different. In public, such as in employment situations, perhaps change is more apparent... not that there isn't still a long way to go.

Back when I was growing up corporal punishment, for example, was simply accepted as a necessary part of child discipline. Now it's considered abusive (at least outwardly.) In private, though, I suspect there's still a lot of it going on. Much of today's opinions regarding what is abusive (especially verbal & emotional but also physical to some extent) would have been laughed at back when I was growing up. I think all one can do nowadays is to be sensitive to the issues surrounding abuse in its various forms, read (& in other ways) be familiar with what the "experts" say about abuse, & then form one's own opinion & approach.

[Esmme]

In my opinion, the difference between abuse and discipline is...

If the child fears their parent vs. respecting them.

I respected my parents, I didn't want to let them down... If I was disobedient all they had to do was tell me that they were "disappointed". They didn't hit me.

My parents grew up in a generation where children *feared* their parents. They did not respect them, the only reason they "listened" and were "obedient" was because they were afraid that their parents would hurt them.

Back in those days, children were not seen as equal to adult... Children were seen as "less than" or "objects" meant to only do what an adult said... This went well into the teen years.

TRIGGER! KINDA-GRAPHIC ABUSE!

Possible trigger:

My mom told me that once her older brothers (who were about 17-18 years old) were tied to a pipe in their basement by my grandfather and he beat them with like a horse whip or something. My mom said it drew blood and they were left to hang there for a couple of days after the whipping...

My grandfather CLEARLY abused his children. His children did NOT respect him, but they were too scared to make him angry for fear he would kill them.

No child should NEVER be scared of their own parent's wrath. If a child is scared of their parent, that parent is abusing them.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by msnyder11

How to tell the difference between discipline and abuse? Modern standards Vs 60, 70 year's ago.

Culturally sanctioned "discipline" is often highly abusive. In some past cultures it seems it was routine behavior to sacrifice some children occasionally. I am guessing the sacrificed ones experienced that as quite intensely abusive, even though it was a "culturally approved" practise.
Culturally approved child discipline can definitely also be considered abusive. It doesn't make the experience of the "discipline" any less damaging because parents thought it was "right".

I wouldn't hold back from calling "discipline" abusive if that is exactly what it was. Go for gold. Reclaim your rightful agency over your self.

From an online dictionary:

Abuse
verb

2.
treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.

synonyms:
mistreat, maltreat, ill-treat, treat badly, ill-use, misuse;
handle/treat roughly, knock about/around, manhandle, mishandle, maul, molest, interfere with, indecently assault, sexually abuse, sexually assault, grope, assault, hit, strike, beat;
injure, hurt, harm, damage;
wrong, bully, persecute, oppress, torture

antonyms:
look after

Abuse
noun

2.
cruel and violent treatment of a person or animal.

Originally Posted by msnyder11

How to tell the difference between discipline and abuse? Modern standards Vs 60, 70 year's ago.

My first career was in child psychology...I worked in schools and clinics in behavior management...including training parents.

Any physical act against a child is abusive. The research indicates that regardless of the parents' intentions, corporal punishment to any degree inherently shames the child which has devastating consequences for development of self-esteem and a sense of agency.

The silent treatment, any form of shaming, withholding food, care, or affection, name-calling, gaslighting etc etc...anything that frightens or demeans the child...that is all abuse even if not intended to be abusive.

Discipline can be done effectively with differential reinforcement and safe verbal cues. I know because I have effectively practiced these methods with typical, disabled, and violent children. They gradually learned to stop aggressing toward me and they also knew I was safe and caring throughout.

People tend to parent in the way they were parented. Abuse is an undeniable cycle in the world. I didn't see where you are from msnyder11 but the U.S. has some of the highest rates of child abuse and infant mortality in the world. I recommend to folks arguing in favor of corporal punishment that they take a look at the research on emotional and physical abuse.

I am always willing to offer other discipline strategies to parents interested in trying a better way...I trained with a clear and non-judgmental approach. I don't believe that parents are better than their children...it should not be a power differential...boundaries and limits do need to be set (that helps little people to feel safe) but this must be done with safety and compassion. A home or school should never feel like a battle ground.

I used to ask parents...if you would never hit your boss, colleague, neighbor or friend when they do something that upsets you, why would you do that to your child?