I tried to ask for advice in another thread but the posters who responded either didn't have direct experience with narcissism, or didn't think it was related to my encounter with the person.

Anyway. I'm interested in discussing narcissism - not as a trend of psychology but as actual traits or even as a disorder. It does effect people and it does exist. It's not just a label.

So, if you have any experience with narcissism, I hope you will discuss it here with me.

I believe I have had a lot of encounters with both men and women over the years who possess narcissistic traits, and I'd like to hear from others who have too. Please don't respond to this thread if you haven't. That's not the point.

[Mopey]

I do, StreetcarBlanche.

Anything in particular you'd want to focus on?

Originally Posted by Mopey

I do, StreetcarBlanche.

Anything in particular you'd want to focus on?

Hi Mopey, yes definitely. With regards to friendships with narcissists, I've found that the friends I have or had in the past with narcissistic traits, often minimalized, trivalized, or outright shamed me when I tried to talk to them about problems I had with their behavior. And they also lack the ability to see things from other people's perspectives: they just won't or can't empathize with you. And everything is your fault, never theirs.

It seems like narcissists and codependents are attracted to each other like magnets. I definitely have codependent traits in me -- I am empathic, like to help others, and be a motivator or cheerleader. Yet, I often find myself being taken for granted by personalities who minimalize my feelings, trivialize my concerns, deflect away their accountability, and try to make me feel like I'm the crazy one when I know I'm not.

I'd like to focus on how to respond to narcissists who try to minimalize your feelings by calling you a drama queen, as a way to deflect the blame or attention on themselves. Or, try to make you seem like you're crazy for setting boundaries with them. Boundaries are a health way to socialize with people.
But narcissists don't like boundaries, b/c they have none. Or it seems like they have no boundaries to me. They are perfect in their own eyes, so if you call them out on something, they will deny it, and shame you for asking them to take ownership of their behavior when it negatively effects your life.

[Mopey]

Absolutely they will NEVER entertain the idea that anything might be amiss with them or their behavior.

The narcissist in my life, unlike yours, though, would stonewall any such attempts rather than turn aggressively on me.

Originally Posted by Mopey

Absolutely they will NEVER entertain the idea that anything might be amiss with them or their behavior.

The narcissist in my life, unlike yours, though, would stonewall any such attempts rather than turn aggressively on me.

Yes, because in their eyes, the narcissist is perfect. Like, this response when I tried to bring up my concerns and my feelings based on how the narcissist treated me, "Well, none of my other friends have a problem with me like you do." Oh, gee thanks! I bet they do, but you ignore them or they just won't bring up their issues with you anymore.

How does your narcissist stonewall you though?

[Mopey]

Well, one way was if anything that might be a touchy interpersonal subject came up in a conversation, the Narc. would simply ignore what I said. Not respond. Change the subject.

Originally Posted by Mopey

Well, one way was if anything that might be a touchy interpersonal subject came up in a conversation, the Narc. would simply ignore what I said. Not respond. Change the subject.

Yes that is definitely a narcissistic trait -- ignore the subject and change it to something they want to talk about. So that is deflection for sure.

Has your narc ever invalidated your feelings through mimimalization to make you feel bad for even wanted to talk about your feelings? As if they don't matter b/c they aren't the same feelings that the narc has?

[Mopey]

Yes, but again in a more indirect way than your narc. For example once I asked if the N might want to attend an exercise class with me. The answer? Contemptuous side glance, little dismissive guffaw.

N prided itself on being "artsy" and "adventurous". Told me contemptuously about the wedding of a niece N considered to be hopelessly conventional; when I asked if N had attended the wedding, looked at me as if had just crawled out from under a rock, and spat "NO!!" Then went on to put me down for expecting other people to have "all the right feelings". Too hopelessly square, you know.

Yes, I came to PC because of my experience with a covert malignant narcissist...possibly a dark triad with dominant traits in machiavellism.

One time, I set a firmer boundary than usual (yeah, I'm a softie and not good at saying "no").

Well, it would have been better if she rashed out on me in denial or gaslighted me since her true color would have shown. At least I would have a tangible sign to point a finger at. But no, nothing obvious like that.

She apologized and evern appreciated me for "informing" her, and appeared to be very understanding. She even complimented me on what a wonderful person I am. It seemed too good to be true based on the pattern of behaviors I have seen over the years (since she holds grudge against others forever when she doesn't get her way).

And it was too good to be true. Because soon the passive-aggressive retaliation came my way.

You can never think that you are the narcissist's exception. If she has done damage to others, she will eventually do so to you also. A narcissist is not loyal to anyone except herself...if even that!

My question on PC regarding a narcissist was posted last December (as you can see my name next to "Asked by"):

How Can I Get a Narcissist to Let Me Go Emotionally ? - Ask the Therapist

[TishaBuv]

I’m sure I have had direct experience of abuse by people being narcissistic. Some of them might be diagnosable, should they go to a therapist. They never would go to a therapist concerning any of their faults— what faults? So, I couldn’t say I know any narcissists, as I can’t diagnose and they sure wouldn’t seek that out or even respect it should some qualified person tell it to them.

Originally Posted by ennie

My question on PC regarding a narcissist was posted last December (as you can see my name next to "Asked by"):

How Can I Get a Narcissist to Let Me Go Emotionally ? - Ask the Therapist

Thank you for sharing your story. I wonder what that PC therapist means by, "develop emotional shields." I don't know what those are.

You must be an empath like me then ennie. We are magnets for narcissists.

[TishaBuv]

Blanche— your observations seem spot on to me!

One thing I am finding all these articles say is that the narc first shows you this fake face when wooing you, then their real face when they turn mean. I respectfully disagree, and feel like these are both their real faces. They really are charming, witty, etc... then they also really are mean and abusive.

[Mopey]

Yes, absolutely TishaBuv. My experience as well. They show you their most attractive face when wooing you, then turn on you when they’ve found their next prey. That is what happened to me exactly. And they leave you wondering, I gave all I had. What did I do wrong? 😖

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Mopey

Yes, absolutely TishaBuv. My experience as well. They show you their most attractive face when wooing you, then turn on you when they’ve found their next prey. That is what happened to me exactly. And they leave you wondering, I gave all I had. What did I do wrong? 😖

How about when you’ve finally learned there is no right answer, no matter what you say or do. Sometimes, the person contradicts themselves. Sometimes they take the opposite POV so that you are wrong no matter what you say, like ‘the sky is blue’... like one minute they were just talking about the sky is blue, but then when you say it, now the sky is gray.

[Mopey]

Yes, TishaBuv, exactly. They are inconsistent, so they keep you constantly off balance.

And after awhile, as you say, you begin to realize there is nothing you can do to really connect with them, as they don't want that. They are constantly changing. And that hurts, as you have come to love them.

Many hugs to you. We need them as we try to heal.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

Thank you for sharing your story. I wonder what that PC therapist means by, "develop emotional shields." I don't know what those are.

You must be an empath like me then ennie. We are magnets for narcissists.

I think what the therapist meant was "develop a thicker skin" so I don't let her get to me. That's just my speculation. For sensitive people (i.e. empaths), that's hard. But we must keep trying.

Originally Posted by ennie

I think what the therapist meant was "develop a thicker skin" so I don't let her get to me. That's just my speculation. For sensitive people (i.e. empaths), that's hard. But we must keep trying.

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure if it meant some kind of meditation or visualization, neither of which I've ever found useful or helpful when dealing with manipulative people.

What i need to find, is a way to immediately notice through their dialogue with me, what type of manipulative tactic they're using, and how to respond to it. I.e. when they gaslight, minimalize feelings, invalidate facts, blame shift, deflect, etc.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

What i need to find, is a way to immediately notice through their dialogue with me, what type of manipulative tactic they're using, and how to respond to it. I.e. when they gaslight, minimalize feelings, invalidate facts, blame shift, deflect, etc.

A couple of other things I noticed are (and oh, had I KNOWN before! But better late than never, and I hope they will help someone avoid the danger):

-Exaggerated expressions. If they sound too good to be true and are inconsistent with her actions.

-"The look." Like having a grin on her face at an inappropriate time. She looks at you as if you are being ridiculous or as if she is enjoying seeing you aggravated.

And if she acts "concerned", but it doesn't feel sincere, try looking away for a while or excuse yourself briefly. She will either have an expression of hatred on her face, or a grin from a sadistic pleasure, as soon as she thinks you are not looking (Hmmm, what happened to that look of concern she just had?)

What I mean is, learn to recognize their verbal cues i.e. phrases or words, that tells me which type of verbal abuse they're attempting to use. I tried it with this guy, and recognized when he was blaming and deflecting. But I need to figure out how to shut them down whey they do this, so that I don't leave the conversation reeling from the verbal abuse anymore.

1. name calling
Example: “You idiot, now you have made me angry!”

2. condescension
Example: “No wonder you are always moaning about your weight, look how clean your plate is!”

3. manipulation
Example: “If you really loved me you wouldn’t say or do that.”

4. criticism
Example: “Why are you so disorganized? I can always count on you to ruin our nights out!”

5. demeaning
Examples: “You women, always crying stupid tears for nothing.”

6. threats
Examples:”I will hurt myself if you leave me tonight” or “If you don’t do that you might find that your cat spends the night outdoors!”

7. blaming
Examples: “You are the reason why we are never on time for anything!” or “Look what you made me do now!”

8. accusations
Examples: “I bet you are cheating on me!” or “I saw you had fun flirting with your boss again, while I was stuck chatting to your boring coworkers.”

9. the silent treatment
Example: You are discussing restaurant options and don’t want to go with your partner’s preference. They leave the room and refuse to talk to you until you apologize for being “mean.”

10. gaslighting
Examples: “Why are you always so sensitive to everything?”

11. circular arguments
Example: your partner constantly disagrees with you and starts another argument that's different than the one you're having, to distract you from finishing that first argument so you will just give up arguing with them about their toxic behavior.

15 Common Forms of Verbal Abuse in Relationships | Psychology Today

Originally Posted by ennie

A couple of other things I noticed are (and oh, had I KNOWN before! But better late than never, and I hope they will help someone avoid the danger):

-Exaggerated expressions. If they sound too good to be true and are inconsistent with her actions.

-"The look." Like having a grin on her face at an inappropriate time. She looks at you as if you are being ridiculous or as if she is enjoying seeing you aggravated.

And if she acts "concerned", but it doesn't feel sincere, try looking away for a while or excuse yourself briefly. She will either have an expression of hatred on her face, or a grin from a sadistic pleasure, as soon as she thinks you are not looking (Hmmm, what happened to that look of concern she just had?)

Those are great examples, ennie. I've experienced these first-hand from both men and women narcissists as friends and boyfriends.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

1. name calling
Example: “You idiot, now you have made me angry!”

My abuser has never been explicit like this so I am not sure how to respond to something like this. She manipulates in subtle and passive-aggressive ways.

Originally Posted by ennie

My abuser has never been explicit like this so I am not sure how to respond to something like this. She manipulates in subtle and passive-aggressive ways.

Can you think of any examples off-hand?

When I told the Narc that I liked the radio station we were listening to in his car, he immediately used two types of verbal abuse, "discounting," and "undermining."

Here's what he said to me:

Discounting - the attempt to deny the victim the rights to his/her feelings

"You know Blanche, [name of radio station] is so yesterday b/c their music is so faux-hipster that no one with great musical taste listens to it really. It's perfect for [this city] b/c no one here is really that knowledgeable about what makes good music."

Undermining - attempt to make me question the validity of my own opinion; basically an attempt to put me down for my valid opinion.

"I know [so and so] from [the name of the radio station] and it really isn't that up to date on the type of music it plays. It's really gone downhill as far as quality. I can't believe you like that radio station. I thought you had better taste in music than that."

I didn't know how to respond at the time. I felt bad for liking that radio station's music and being a fan of it for as long as I have. So, I said nothing. But why should i feel bad, just because he told me to? That's why I think he was Narc'ing out on me in the car. Who tells someone that their choice of radio station is wrong, just because THEY don't like that radio station. I was such a wimp, that I didn't even defend liking the radio station to him. I wish I had.

[nicoleflynn]

Yes, my mother and ex-husband. Actually, narccissists hate themselves...and take it out on others. They are emotional vampires, and continually need their "fix"---that is you responding to their outrageous behavior. Don't engage.

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

Yes, my mother and ex-husband. Actually, narccissists hate themselves...and take it out on others. They are emotional vampires, and continually need their "fix"---that is you responding to their outrageous behavior. Don't engage.

Sorry to hear that, nicoleflynn. Yes, I agree with you that narcissists are emotional vampires that continually need their "fix" from people they view as their "sources."

It's hard not to engage once they hook you. Getting unhooked from a narcissist is never easy.