[Talulah]

(((Lmo))) thanks for those hugs!!

Not trying to whine or say I need only to talk to others of my circumstance. By all means I fight the equality on gender and stereotypes, by have to be honest that somewhere deep inside I am more drawn to, let's say Biiv......I'm not needing to find other lesbians, its just when I knwo there is one, I find a deeper sense of comfort, I say kinship, not twinship.

BTW Biiv, great posts...

Fayerod, keep fighitng the fight. I can sense you are very strong, wise and confident. I really value that and respect you for it!

>>>>>>>"how much the 'insider' and 'outsider' mentality helps those on the inside at the expense of those on the outside... and how much the people on the inside justify their excluding others by assuming the outsiders are out to get them anyway."<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yea, knowing the extent of how the "outsiders" feel could still benefit those insiders. Just want to say, for clarity of my interpretation, I don't assume all others are out to get me, just that some LGBT experiences are so very in the forefront these days and it 'feels' unique to me sometimes, I'm not ignorant to belive that all hetero persons don't "get" me or want to destroy me, but it's an issue they don't necessarily face day to day. In fact I've been very welcomed here by all! That is wonderful and will lead me to trust you with some of my issues, some anyway.

Some people face day to day issues they might like insight on from others who feel them day to day (ratial, ethnic. LGBT and so on)

Okay, so I'm supposed to be voting here and sorry for the long post, but I wanted to clear the air alex about that one thing you said, I don't want to give you (or anyone) the wrong impression.

I could go either way on the vote, I'm a rule follower so whatever decided, I'm supportive.

[Zen888]

Why doesn't someone ask Admin. to consider the various sexual orientation and racial forums that are being debated here?

[LMo]

we already are, btw...

hey.

it is okay people.

i've decided i won't be posting here.
or any other board where the understanding is that you have to be part of the 'in' group in order for your opinion to be welcome.

for the record you might want to be a little careful how you approach the racial issue...

but i guess 'race' is almost politically uncorrect in NZ instead we focus on 'ethnic identity' which is a lot like gender identity.

nobody has really answered my question with respect to whether this board is about

- female chromosomes
- female genitils
- gender identity

but whatever. can't be bothered with this anymore.

[DocJohn]

You know, I'm not one for creating rules for the sake of creating rules. I would think the name -- Women's focused support -- is pretty self-evident. Do I really have to dig down into specifics when we create a forum like this and say, "Sorry, you need to have these chromosomes and these components and this identity in order to post here"??

A man posting to a women's focused support forum is not appropriate, asking for womens' opinions about X, Y or Z. That's what the relationships forum is and has always been for, as the word "relationships" describes a lot more than romantic relationships (e.g., any friendship, social relationship, work relationship, etc.).

So the answer is no, this place is for women and women's issues first and foremost. I think that's about as clear as I need to be.

John

the million dollar question (that I was trying to get people thinking about) is:

what is a woman??????????????????

to repeat:

must our future always be determined by our bodies?????

thanks for the resounding 'YES!'

i decline to participate further on this board.

also...

i'm really not just trying to be difficult.

one of my alters (or part of me) has a male gender identity.
a comprimise for me is 'the ideal of androgyny'.
seems that that part can't post to the male board (because chromosomes are lacking and yes, he (i) am very aware that he (we) don't have a penis). but also seems that that part can't post to the female board (because having a gender identity that diverges from chromosomes and phenotype means i don't count as male or as female according to your criteria).

that is kinda hurtful, yeah.

I AM REPOSTING THIS OFF THE MENS FORUM SINCE IT WAS REMOVED FROM THERE> THIS IS MEANT TO BE PRIOR TO THE ABOVE POST> IT WILL HELP CLARIFY THE MEANING (I HOPE)

> I would think the name -- Men's focused support -- is pretty self-evident.

You might have thought it. I have asked about five times now what the criteria is, however, which I would have thought fairly clearly conveys that no, it is not self-evident to me.

> Do I really have to dig down into specifics when we create a forum like this and say, "Sorry, you need to have these chromosomes and these components and this identity in order to post here"??

Well, I have asked about five times...

So (in the interests of clarity):

In order to post here you need to meet the following criteria (where each component is necessary and together they are all jointly sufficient):

1) Male chromosomes (so no people can post to the male or female forums if they have non-typical chromosomes)
2) Male sex organs (so no people can post to the male board if their doctor made a whoopsie while they were being circumscised, for example. In fact even if these people were raised female, they wouldn't be able to post to the girls board because they would not meet condition 1)
3) Male gender identity (though I'm guessing sexual preference doesn't matter)?

I guess (once again) I'm concerned about all these people being excluded given that this is a forum for people with mental disorders and gender identity is currently listed in the DSM...

I really don't see how the above can be assessed. Sure my name is alexandra_k but what makes you think I don't meet the above criteria? Without breaking my confidentiality you cannot assess that. In fact... I don't know what my chromosomes are, truth be told.

It is okay. I won't post to this board again.

There is this little thing called 'the ideal of androgyny'. It kind of precludes it. To me people are people are people are people, you see...

I saw that someone signed up before with gender identity disorder wondering if this place (the boards as a whole) were for them. Haven't seen them post since... But it might well be the case that this forum isn't suitable given the attitudes that seem to be fostered here...

[DocJohn]

If you have any concerns regarding whether it's appropriate to post to a specific forum on a specific topic, I suggest you first talk to an admin or moderator to seek clarification.

Now that you've received that clarification and have said three times already that you won't post here again, I hope this issue is resolved. Not every forum is for every person and while we try our best to be as inclusive as possible, we're not always going to be the perfect fit for every individual's unique, personal needs.

John

> we're not always going to be the perfect fit for every individual's unique, personal needs.

the implication being that gender identity disorder, accidents that affect anatomy, and chromosomes that aren't typically male or female are such 'unique' occurrances that we can simply not worry about them.

it isn't just about me. i just used me as an example.

but no matter. i guess pedophiles and sociopaths probably aren't so welcome here either even though those conditions are mental disorders...

[LMo]

actually, I'm glad that you brought this up, Alexandra. I don't think that's what DocJohn concluded, but you raise a good point.

If there are any members with gender identity issues, I would be happy to help figure out a solution for them. Please PM me and be assured of my confidentiality.

biiv.........me too.......i never, ever meant that those forums would be exclusive...........and i do not believe that i could have said anything to cause people to believe that.....if i did, i didn't mean to.

some wise poster even said that they were very supportive of the possibility of having the new forums as she felt she could learn from them........bravo for her! that's my aim.....

as for as having a male only and a female only.......i have female parts that i am not going to discuss with the men here. if they read what i write.....so be it......but i will not discuss personal physical issues with them.......what is the big deal about not being able to understand how simple this is??????????

Doc just got through explaining it on the male forum.......... and he is very clear about the two forums.........thanks, pat

p.s. i understand that sometimes it's just too difficult to not question everything.......AND then there is the time to lighten up and let it goooooooooooooooo. and it takes wisdom to know which place you're at.......

pilatus........i don't like that idea at all. i'd rather openly discuss my problems about race.

fellow posters, i PMed Doc about this when the idea for the bi/gay/bi-racial forums hit me........the second i realized that people felt it was a good idea, i ran with it........

could we all breathe and let it get worked out? thanks a bunch, pattynotevenclosetonormalnow

p.s. it was mentioned that a lesbian wouldn't HAVE to have a lesbian to talk to but the comfort zone is there........could we dwell on comfort for awhile? i've suffered for years with the bi-racial issues and i sure could use some comfort from another bi-racial poster..........

[Zen888]

Hi Fayerody

I'm sorry if I offended you or angered you in anyway by my suggestion/comment....it was just an idea....nothing more......not intended to hurt anyone's feelings.

So...I guess DocJon has settled the issue of this particular thread.....men & women forums are separate and to bring other issues to the relationship forum.

Again......Fayerody & others.......I sincerely apologize if I have offended you in anyway.

[Rhapsody]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
the million dollar question (that I was trying to get people thinking about) is:

what is a woman??????????????????

i'm really not just trying to be difficult.

one of my alters (or part of me) has a male gender identity.
a comprimise for me is 'the ideal of androgyny'.
seems that that part can't post to the male board (because chromosomes are lacking and yes, he (i) am very aware that he (we) don't have a penis). but also seems that that part can't post to the female board (because having a gender identity that diverges from chromosomes and phenotype means i don't count as male or as female according to your criteria).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
LMo said:
actually, I'm glad that you brought this up, Alexandra. I don't think that's what DocJohn concluded, but you raise a good point.

If there are any members with gender identity issues, I would be happy to help figure out a solution for them. Please PM me and be assured of my confidentiality.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

My personal solution (being DID myself) would be for your MALE ALTER to post in the MEN'S FORUM (when and if he does come out) .... and please keep in mind that when HE is present HE would not come here to post a thread for this is labeled the WOMEN'S FORUM - and HE being a male alter HE would not know that HE is physically really a female, body and all - HE would see himself as a MALE, therefore, possibly post where other MALES go to post to each other.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs ))) for you both.

P.S.

I feel DocJohn's reply was meant just as it was written.... for the people that come here as who they physically are MALE or FEMALE.

Individual cases beyond that should be taken to Admin / Mods for further consideration and/ or HELP.
... no debate or anger needed, we accept all - and all have a spot here on PC.

pilatus, i wasn't angry. i just don't want to hide my feelings any longer about the difficulties that i experience about race.......love, pat

[nothemama8]

I 'm not bi-racial I'm heinz 57 and proud of it, as long as you have that pride use it IMHO

i would like to apologize to our gentlemen in the men's forum for the inappropriate posting by a woman in their forum.......i found it disrespectful.....

angie, in my work in photography, i really do have a lot of trouble with people assuming things about my race and some of it is very, very hurtful..........otherwise, i am heinz57 too.......

[Raynaadi]

Hey ladies, I just wanted to post a reminder of what the original intention of this thread was:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Should the men in Psych Central have a thread in the Womyn's Forum to ask questions regarding womyn? It would be one constant thread.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

DocJohn has already given us a final answer on it. Maybe it would do well to start a new thread about issus not pertaining to this topic.

Thanks,

Rayna