[Zen888]

After reading a thread by our dear Mellors in the Men's Forum, I thought I should ask the womyn a similar question.

Should the men in Psych Central have a thread in the Womyn's Forum to ask questions regarding womyn? It would be one constant thread.

Vote: yes or no (feel free to leave a comment as to why you voted yes or no)

[LMo]

I would rather have them post in Relationships, personally...

[bebop]

personally I think it is a good idea if they have specific questions of females. I saw his thread there and I think it was in response to someone's question here about being able to ask the men questions from time to time. so I vote yes

[Rhapsody]

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LMo said:
I would rather have them post in Relationships, personally...

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for.... this THREAD is for WOMEN only and should be kept that way (as should the MEN'S thread be for MEN only) and IF any of us have a QUESTION regarding the opposite sex then we can place it in the RELATIONSHIP THREAD.... or in GENERAL if the question is not about a relationship issue per say.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Raynaadi]

I'd rather not....I wouldn't post in the men's forum. This is our place.

[(JD)]

No, not necessary imo. I think there are enough females reading the male's forum, and vice versa that if they wish to ask a question,they can begin a thread there asking us to respond there... or in the relationships forum.

And, remember that DocJohn has asked that we keep ongoing threads down to 100 pages, so the idea of one thread in each forum would only work for a short time

[lenjan]

Mellors insisted -- loudly and aggressively -- that there BE a men's forum -- and now he has it. I thought it was a stroke of genius that we got a women's forum at the same time, and I'd prefer to let the men keep to themselves, as was requested, after all! If we're going to segregate people by gender, let's do it right.

[Raynaadi]

i'm for it being in relationships.

'if we are going to segregate people by gender, lets do it right'

lol

there are the general boards and the relationship boards as well.

what i'd really really really really really like to know is

1) what is the criteria for posting in the guys board (or the girls board)? chromosomes? sex organs? gender identity?
2) what is the penalty for breaching one of the above?
3) whatever next? race? social class? income?

i'm kidding around slightly...

(though since this is a mental health board and all i am concerned for people who here / who might join up with a gender identity disorder... there are also medical conditions such that... i guess i just don't know how sensitive i find the idea of the segregation to be precisely for those reasons)

personally... i wouldn't want the few guys from the guys board to be considered representative of all guys...

and there would probably be more of an audience on general or relationships...

and...

i still don't really see why someones opinion should be worth more (or less) simply because they are the same (or different) chromosomes or genitals or gender identity (or whatever) as you...

[Rhapsody]

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alexandra_k said:
1) what is the criteria for posting in the guys board (or the girls board)? chromosomes? sex organs? gender identity?

i still don't really see why someones opinion should be worth more (or less) simply because they are the same (or different) chromosomes or genitals or gender identity (or whatever) as you...

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Not that they are more (or less) important based on gender.... but some times a man needs another males opinion and some times we females just need to be understood - and what better person to do that for us than another FEMALE.

And.... believe it or not as FACT - males tend to go about matters and feelings a certain way for they are male and females tend to do things in a certain manner and feel deeply from within for we are female.

... Testosterone and Estrogen do indeed effect the physical and emotional part of who we are - as MALE and FEMALE.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

> some times a man needs another males opinion

i guess i just don't understand why gender / sex / chromosomes helps or harms the issue...

> and some times we females just need to be understood

doesn't everyone feel that way sometimes?

> what better person to do that for us than another FEMALE.

well... i guess i think 'what better person to do that for us than someone who is sympathetic regardless of what gender / sex / chromosomes they happen to have?'

maybe it is a stereotype thing. is the notion that people with female chromosomes / sex organs / gender identification are more likely to be nurturing? i guess i don't really see that... i have male friends who are really rather supportive. they may not have periods but they have 'times of the month' too - i swear ;-)

> males tend to go about matters and feelings a certain way for they are male and females tend to do things in a certain manner and feel deeply from within for we are female.... Testosterone and Estrogen do indeed effect the physical and emotional part of who we are - as MALE and FEMALE.

ah. it is very unclear (very controversial) how much of our gender identity (and personality traits / characteristics) is a function of our chromosomes and how much of our gender identity (and personality traits / characteristics) is a function of socialisation. i guess i'm more on the socialisation side of things really... i find it quite liberating.

even if there are gender differences i bet you find more variation between members of the same class than between members of different classes.

for example: men can run faster than women (on average)
but i know a hell of a lot of female runners (atheletes) who can outrun the MAJORITY of males.

is our future always to be determined by our bodies?????

[Rhapsody]

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alexandra_k said:
is our future always to be determined by our bodies?????

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No.............. but largely by our male / female Chromosomes ..... and then YES, for those same Chromosomes do indeed affect our bodies.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Rhapsody]

Oh but it has been proven...... for the right side of the brain and the left side of the brain control different behaviors, thoughts and emotions, and the males vs. females are controlled by one side or the other of the brain (diff sides in most cases) - therefore the out come will often than not be different.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

um...

there is some localisation of function yes.

with the left hemisphere subserving language
and the right hemisphere subserving emotion

but...

the stereotype is that women are more verbal AND more emotional but that would mean they would need to be using both sides of their brain

:-O

;-)

i assure you i use both sides of my brain, as people tend to do.

i guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the social construction of gender...

don't get me wrong i know genes constrain things...
but they don't determine things
not even anywhere near it
the majority of genes that any one person has are not expressed in the phenotype.
so what is it that tells the genes to 'turn on' and make protein?
environmental factors, that is what.

do little girls play with barbie because they are innately disposed
or do little girls play with barbie because mummy gives them barbie and goes 'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww how cute'?

I do see alexandra's point-- I think some of the way males/females behave and think is environmental.

However, I don't think it would make me feel as humanely connected if I was upset over a yeast infection and was hoping for a "connection" about it while talking with a man. Oh he could be compassionate about it and all-- but he really would have NO idea what so ever what I'd be going through.(that's why I like women doctors for myself) Just like wanting to talk to another person that had "induced" labor or an episiotomy. How can a man truly "connect" with a woman concerning menstrual cramps? Sure a man can listen and have compassion-- but there would be no "connection". Humans, especially when in difficult situations, search for "connections".

I wouldn't think a man would come to me and talk about the difficulties of his vasectomy expecting me to connect and understand the whole scope of it. Sure I too could show basic understanding and compassion to my knowledge of his body--- but there could be a more understandable "connection" when sharing his experience with another man.

It's not that one is better than the other at any given time-- it's just what kind of communication that person needs at that moment-- compassion or a "connection". There can be a huge difference.

Women in modern society are basically expected to hold down a job, keep a house clean, cook meals, do the shopping and raise children. While men by society standards are expected to hold down a successful job-- if they do anything more than that they are considered heros.(not meaning to bash-- just the "standards" seem way out of whack to me! If a woman works full time and does all the other jobs then I think she should be considered a hero as well for doing the "mans" job--working full time! but she's NOT- ) Sometimes, when a woman doesn't meet society standards for whatever reason(could be exhaustion!)-- it helps her to feel more "connected" when she shares these pains/frustrations with another woman that is going through similar feelings of loss/being overwhelmed.

As for the original question.... I agree with those that said the men can ask at the "relationship" forum, concerns about a woman, and also-- they can "read" all these post here in the women's forum, thus learning more about us.

Got to go to work! Good day to all.

mandy

> I don't think it would make me feel as humanely connected if I was upset over a yeast infection and was hoping for a "connection" about it while talking with a man. Oh he could be compassionate about it and all-- but he really would have NO idea what so ever what I'd be going through.

Hmm. I guess I think that sure guys can know what it is like to have a yeast infection (vaginal thrush is closely related to atheletes foot and oral thrush). And guys can know what it is like to have trouble with their sex organs too... So... I don't really see what the difference is... And I guess... Maybe I'm slightly unique here... But I don't see that one needs to have experienced the same (or similar) in order to adequately empathise.

I haven't been a prostitute or a russian taxi driver but I can know quite a lot about what it is like to be those kinds of things because I can listen to people relating their experiences. I understand what it is like to feel afraid or hopeful or sad or scared. I don't see why I have to literally have been there in order to be sympathetic. And I guess I think that a sympathetic ear is often what people most need / want. I don't think that you have to have an experience of addiction in order to be an effective addiction therapist anymore than you have to have an experience of bi-polar or schizophrenia in order to conduct effective therapy for those either. Sure, it can help to have personal experience. But you know what? I think that sometimes personal experience can harm too because people tend to generalise from that to everyone else in the world. The best addiction therapist I ever had was someone with no history of addiction. Why? Because she listened to me talk about my experience instead of insisting on telling me all about hers...

> Women in modern society are basically expected to hold down a job, keep a house clean, cook meals, do the shopping and raise children.

Ah. I find that interesting. In the 'good old' days what was expected was to keep a house clean etc etc. Nowdays a career has entered into the picture. Notice how the stereotype of the 'career woman' tends to be counter-balanced with sexiness? to make it socially acceptable? e.g., consider ally macbeale (who was desirable as smart primarily because she was desirable sexually in the first place)... (though don't even get me started on the actors eating disorder)...

in the words of alanis morrissette: 'the sexy treadmill capitalist'

none of that is breaking free of traditional stereotype...

it is simply adding another layer to it.

i do think, however, that women need to take some responsibility for what they do to perpeptuate the gender stereotypes too, however... e.g., if you think it is reasonable for your husband to expect you to do these things in the sense that you actually do take the responsibility for the housekeeping and the childraising and the income... well...

Well your experience with an addiction counselor is "your" experience, not everyones.(hope I didn't sound insolent- not my intention, many times I express myself and it comes across different than I mean it to be ) I've heard more times, that it can be helpful to have someone that relates and thus better "connects", I agree with that. I've had both a yeast infection and athletes foot -there is NO WAY a man having atheltes foot could understand the feelings a woman has in the "feminine area" with a yeast infection! they are not anywhere near the same feeling-- but if I talked to another woman that had it also, she would be able to "connect" with me, all the things we both more than likely suffered with. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Like I said-- sometimes compassion is what's needed and that's enough-- but sometimes the "connection" of commonality is more helpful. It just depends on the person and what they need at that moment... not that one is overall better than another.

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do think, however, that women need to take some responsibility for what they do to perpeptuate the gender stereotypes too, however... e.g., if you think it is reasonable for your husband to expect you to do these things in the sense that you actually do take the responsibility for the housekeeping and the childraising and the income... well...

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Oh yes, I couldn't agree with you more! I have been in MANY an arguement with my SO as I've never agreed with being the "beast of burden".

I think it's VERY tough though to go against what society tries to force others to accept. And like myself-- when one goes against the "norm"-- you face harsh obstacles with hurtful labels. One has to have very strong convictions. (and I do.) I've been told what a witch(and other not nice names) I am for insisting my husband help clean the bathrooms, change diapers(years ago), share in the shopping and his dad has called him some not-very nice labels when he sees him working in the kitchen. It can be tough for both genders to step out of societies expectations. However, society can be quite dsyfunctional about a lot of things-- so the heck with society!

I like fayerody's signature-- Well-behaved women seldom make history -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich challenging the "norms" is how I've always been. I've never paid attention to the words-- "It's done that way.... because that's just the way it is"... never accepted that!

Hey, Pilatus-- I sure hope you don't mind, I've gone off topic here! I truly apologize if so. (I'm always concerned about the original poster and how they feel their thread is going-- please let me know if it is a problem)

mandy

[Zen888]

No worries mandyfins

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing!

[Talulah]

Mandyfins says:

"I think it's VERY tough though to go against what society tries to force others to accept. And like myself-- when one goes against the "norm"-- you face harsh obstacles with hurtful labels. One has to have very strong convictions."

I concur......the whole LGBT deal is a lot to swallow and until you've been there, really been in MY shoes I don't know if I'd "feel" that you're relating. Oh yes, maybe sympathetic and you could draw similar circumstances etc from your own life but gay slurs, hate crime, abuse, equality, threats, vandalism, constant fear or confusion, and so on and so on from being a fem lesbian, I dunno, seems like I'd like someone who has maybe had the same/similar experiences due to the SAME REASONS as me.
I'd feel more likely to talk openly to another gay person sometimes, sometimes. I like to know I'm not alone. And this may be due to the existing "stereotypes" that the world imposes that aren't changing, at least as fast as we'd like. Some of us suffer greatly from those stereotypes, on a daily basis....