Are "girlfriends" exempt?

So I used to be close to someone who admitted to me that she is "future-faking" with her boyfriend for material reasons.

If you are not familiar with future-faking, you can read it here:

Narcissists & The Art of Future-Faking

It's basically creating false future expectations (like "I will meet your parents") without following through, so she can get what she wants at the moment.

This person was also highly vindictive with her ex-boyfriend.

So I initially thought that she had an issue with men but not necessarily unsafe as a girlfriend.

I was wrong.

I eventually found out that she was also using me, while talking as if I will have a permanent place in her inner circle.

She also became vindictive towards me when she didn't get her way.

So I think character is a human problem rather than a gender one, but I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences since it may differ from my own.

Are girlfriends exempt from being harmed by a woman who treat men badly?

Evidently not. Some people don't get along with either gender, sad to say.

I don’t think gender is an issue. Some people are manipulative and fake. I’d think someone like that would be manipulative to anyone regardless of gender. I’d take gender differences out of it and try to surround yourself with loving kind people.

I think generally one can with reason say that if someone treats several other people badly, then chances are, they will also treat you badly. A general character flaw that will harm others regardless of gender.

I dont think gender issues... even girls can also have girl friends

Interesting post Ennie. Thank you. I'm not sure I've ever known a truly vindictive person to be honest. I've known insecure people and preoccupied people and people with a poor sense of boundaries and really angry people. But actually systemically vindictive? I'd have to give that some thought.

I think friends make mistakes and it is not my role to judge them. If they are in my life and respectful and we enjoy each other's company, that's fair enough. For example, I mentioned a former friend of mine who was involved with a man who also sleeps with other women. She would feel repeatedly hurt by that man and yet kept going back to him. This has been going on for years. Sometimes she would feel angry with him. Now, a person could judge her and say "Why don't you stop seeing a man who doesn't treat you with any respect....of course it hurts....he's not going to suddenly change how he treats you." But I never said such a thing. It wasn't my place to. All she wanted from me, when she mentioned the topic, was non-judgmental comfort. It seemed quite apparent to me that she kept going back because she must have terribly low self-esteem. So what would be the value in judging her maladaptive responses? We are no longer friends for different reasons...pertaining directly to the two of us rather than her unhealthy relationship with a disrespectful man. Yes, we could certainly surmise that she was unable to maintain a healthy friendship with me because of the low self-esteem....the same problem for the romantic issues. But that's different from labeling her as bad or unworthy of friendship if you see what I mean.

Though I realize that example is not the same as your vindictive question.

I suppose if I actually met someone whose life seemed to be driven by a desire for revenge, I would not befriend them in the first place because their energy would be unpleasant for me to be around.

That said, sometimes people can go through terrible pain and betrayal and then present with a lot of anger and resentment. At some point, hopefully they will work through the anger and resentment but that doesn't happen overnight. And I don't think that makes them a "bad" person or unworthy of friends. Though each of us has every right to carefully pick and choose who we spend our time with.

I always come back to Sadhguru's view:
"There are no good people or bad people. There are only joyful people and miserable people."

So, best case scenario, we surround ourselves with joyful people (easier said than done) without judging or labeling the miserable people. In the world today, there's too much "I am right and good" and "you are wrong and bad." Human behaviors and drives just aren't that simplistic.

I have experienced abuse myself and I am hearing the word used in very odd ways these days. Ways I do not understand. Such as a person does something someone else does not like so they are immediately deemed "abusive." Or someone's feelings are hurt by a situation or event so the person involved is deemed "toxic" or "malignant" or a "narcissistic abuser." My comments do not pertain directly to you or your examples Ennie. I'm just sharing my general thoughts on how we humans relate to each other...including when things don't go as we like or hope. There seems to be more and more acceptance of black-and-white reductive rhetoric when it comes to human interactions. Letting someone down once or even a few times, or making a mistake, or being selfish on occasion is not the same as abusing someone. The line seems to have gotten really nebulous and I think it's a problem. For the person being labeled an "abuser" but also for the person going through the world feeling that they are being abused any time someone else does something they don't appreciate.

Your question about friendship with women who treat men badly....I suppose I would need more detail on what constitutes treating someone "badly." We all hurt each other at times, right? Even though most of us don't mean to. After a break-up, humans often do or say things that they would not do under other circumstances.

Now for someone actually repeatedly harming others or ourselves, we can draw a clear line and step far away from it and leave them be and move on with focus on the self. Does that sound overly simplistic? That's how I do things as this point in my life. I've been let down by quite a few people recently. I take ownership of my disappointment and hurt. I work through it in my own mind. I don't interact with those people anymore. Not because they are "bad" or "unworthy" but simply because those dynamics are not enriching my life. My hurt and disappointment is very different from being abused. That distinction is very obvious to me. Others seem to believe that there is no distinction.

For example, I had a friend who went on a first date with a man. She had a lovely time. She thought he did too. She never heard from him again. Nor did she reach out to him after chatting with me. I see nothing wrong with that. In that situation, I would assume if he wanted to see me again, he would contact me. If not, then not. No harm, no foul. Did he owe her a second date because they went on a first? No. But someone told her that he committed an act of "narcissistic abuse" toward her by not contacting her again for a second date. ??? Where is this stuff coming from? It's certainly not helping anyone. Are unskilled therapists telling people such things or is it just the internet? I don't understand.

Just my thoughts....you of course do not have to agree. I appreciate your thoughtful posts and deep questions regarding the human condition. I enjoy discussing such topics.

Thank you always for your thorough feedback, SilverTrees.

I feel it's best for you to create your own new thread about how people judge others, as this was neither the intention or the context of my thread.

No judgment against you, SilverTrees. We all have different interpretations of what we read based on our own experiences.

I am just saying judging people was not my intention.

Thank you again.

Sorry Ennie. I wasn't trying to suggest that you are judging. I was just sharing my thoughts in general about human behavior and when it goes awry and hurts us. No offense intended and I will refrain from adding further to your thread. Peace to you Ennie.

Peace. I will try to contribute if you create a new thread about this topic though

I’ve had people make false promises in order to get something from me (like sex). I recognized them as users. Were they all narcissists? I didn’t fall for their rouses. I gave it right back to them, playing along, until they got frustrated and that was that. There was this one guy who was most likely married, telling me he wanted to ‘keep’ me. So I called him from the sales office of the most expensive penthouse and told him he could buy me that one! Needless to say, nothing happened.

My former bff would talk fondly about our future together in the assisted living, when we are old. But as soon as she was unforgivably rude, she never apologized and never called me again at all. Did that count as future faking?