[issidore]

I suspect her being a narcissist, but I would like your opinion. There are four of us all doing the same work in the department we work at. She is one of the four and she is not our boss but constantly acts like it. She even acts like this with people who are there longer than she is and who actually taught her how to do this job. She can't escape the being authoritative- kissing up to us routine - she compliments us on something, and then when a superior is present or someone she thinks has a better job than her, she criticises us for the very same thing she complimented us for.

She spreads negative gossip about us all the time, and involve as many people as she can in this. She never admits doing anything wrong and blames us for it or other people. She talks all the time, interrupts people, shifts conversation subjects to herself, injects herself in the conversations of others, etc. When she's explaining something, she uses way too much unecessary detail, lecturing us on things we already know.

When she is criticised, she can't drop the subject until she proves she is right. This often includes bringing in other people into the matter, even those who have nothing to do with it. This is very embarassing, and she uses this opportunity to criticise and lie about us in front of other people.

The kissing up pattern is more pronounced when she's around superiors. This behavior is so extreme that is makes my stomach turn, but many of them don't seem to think there is anything unusual about it. When they leave, she sometimes bad-mouths them in front of us, although not so much lately, probably because she is sensing that we refuse to be dragged into her web.

She doesn't treat us the same way though. Those of us who confronted her directly and gave her honest opinions about her received worse treatment than those who didn't. I was lucky enough to know to just politely put her in her place and not to insult her. My coleague unfortunately didn't do that, and she continued to treat her worse than me. Nevertheless, everything described here I experiences myself. I got a feeling like she's constantly trying to feel me up, always calculating whether to act authoritatively or to suck up to me. She shifts from one pattern to another constantly. The coleague of mine who told her honestly what she thinks about her gets only the brute, authoritative pattern.

Another thing she does is that she goes out of her way to do work she is not supposed to for bosses and those who are better positioned. By doing this, she doesn't respect procedure or our internal arrangements as a team. Other coworkers who don't work in our department but who nevertheless work with us think therefore that the rest of us don't do as much as she does, which is probably her goal.

Our immediate boss knows about this. He told me that previous workers quit because of her and that this has been a problem for ages (I'm newly employed there, couple of months). According to our coworker who is a senior employee, a lot of people recognize these problems, including our immediate boss, apparently, but he never did anything about it. All three of us feel very uneasy around her and have difficulty doing our job.

Sorry for the long post. So, do you think, based on this, that she has narcissistic tendencies and what can the three of us do about it? All three of us completely agree on her, by the way, she hasn't brainwashed any of us.

Thank you in advance!

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so sorry you're struggling, issidore From what you wrote I'd say that yes, she does have some narcissistic traits. As for what you can do about it, technically that should be the job of your boss. Why is he not doing anything about it if he knows what's up? Have you tried to ask that? Either way, since she isn't really your boss, I think you have every right to stand up for yourself and put her in your place, although perhaps you want to avoid conflict. But I don't think it's fair that the three of you are being treated this way. I'd suggest to talk to your boss about this and ask him if he can do something about it. If this situation continues and you don't feel like you can't handle it, maybe you coul try to look for another job, even though, like I said, I don't think it's fair since you should be protected from this kind of behavior. Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes. Sending many hugs to you

[sarahsweets]

If you dont mind I wanted to try and address multiple points ..

Originally Posted by issidore

I suspect her being a narcissist, but I would like your opinion. There are four of us all doing the same work in the department we work at. She is one of the four and she is not our boss but constantly acts like it. She even acts like this with people who are there longer than she is and who actually taught her how to do this job. She can't escape the being authoritative- kissing up to us routine - she compliments us on something, and then when a superior is present or someone she thinks has a better job than her, she criticises us for the very same thing she complimented us for.

If she is not your boss how about saying.." thanks for your suggestion. I think I will run it by____(Mr bossman) and see what he wants me to do"

She spreads negative gossip about us all the time, and involve as many people as she can in this. She never admits doing anything wrong and blames us for it or other people. She talks all the time, interrupts people, shifts conversation subjects to herself, injects herself in the conversations of others, etc. When she's explaining something, she uses way too much unecessary detail, lecturing us on things we already know.

There will always be office gossip. As long as you do not feed into it or even address it she will (hopefully) learn that you dont care about what isnt true.

When she is criticised, she can't drop the subject until she proves she is right. This often includes bringing in other people into the matter, even those who have nothing to do with it. This is very embarassing, and she uses this opportunity to criticise and lie about us in front of other people.

Who is doing the criticizing? Your boss? If so, if she attempts to try and justify I would say" You will have to take it up with___(whoever criticized her) because it doesnt involve me.

The kissing up pattern is more pronounced when she's around superiors. This behavior is so extreme that is makes my stomach turn, but many of them don't seem to think there is anything unusual about it. When they leave, she sometimes bad-mouths them in front of us, although not so much lately, probably because she is sensing that we refuse to be dragged into her web.

Personally I would nip that in the bud by sharing something like.." I do not like to talk about people when they are not here. How about I go get (whomever) so you can discuss this with them?"

She doesn't treat us the same way though. Those of us who confronted her directly and gave her honest opinions about her received worse treatment than those who didn't. I was lucky enough to know to just politely put her in her place and not to insult her. My coleague unfortunately didn't do that, and she continued to treat her worse than me. Nevertheless, everything described here I experiences myself. I got a feeling like she's constantly trying to feel me up, always calculating whether to act authoritatively or to suck up to me. She shifts from one pattern to another constantly. The coleague of mine who told her honestly what she thinks about her gets only the brute, authoritative pattern.

To be honest..we teach people how to treat us. If we allow unwanted things to be said or happen and not address it then it will not stop. It is especially helpful to not engage in anything critical or otherwise with her. Let the boss do that.

Another thing she does is that she goes out of her way to do work she is not supposed to for bosses and those who are better positioned. By doing this, she doesn't respect procedure or our internal arrangements as a team. Other coworkers who don't work in our department but who nevertheless work with us think therefore that the rest of us don't do as much as she does, which is probably her goal.

How do you know they think this? Has anyone said or asked you about it? If it were to come up it may be helpful to say" Thanks for your offer to help but Mr Bossman asked me to do it and I would like to follow protocol. If she goes behind your back to do it or attempts to do it anyway then address the person or people that asked you to do something " i know you asked me to do XXX but Mrs pain-in the-*** decided to do it so if there are any questions I suggest you ask her".

Our immediate boss knows about this. He told me that previous workers quit because of her and that this has been a problem for ages (I'm newly employed there, couple of months). According to our coworker who is a senior employee, a lot of people recognize these problems, including our immediate boss, apparently, but he never did anything about it. All three of us feel very uneasy around her and have difficulty doing our job.

This is workplace bullying. Personally I would consider taking it to human resources but before you do I recommend you talk to your immediate boss and say something like " You have told me about past issues with Ms pain-in the-*** but I would like to formally address the workplace bullying with HR. Unless you have any suggestions on how we can handle it?"

Sorry for the long post. So, do you think, based on this, that she has narcissistic tendencies and what can the three of us do about it? All three of us completely agree on her, by the way, she hasn't brainwashed any of us.

Thank you in advance!

I do not think it is anything to tie to mental health issues. Sure, she may sound like someone with Narcissistic issues, but I think its almost doing a disservice to anyone with a mental illness by trying to tie her bad behavior to a mental illness. Its almost like people wondering if someone is bipolar just because they are moody. Some people are just jerks and it doesnt need to be tied to a mental illness. Unless being an asshole is a mental health condition that I was unaware of. Straight up this is workplace bullying, a hostile and toxic work environment and you shouldnt have to deal with this. She shouldnt be allowed to get a way with it but if you do not pursue the proper avenues to address it formally- well she will just keep doing it unchecked.

Bullies are very good at making you question yourself and causing you to get all critical of yourself. That is not an environment conducive to working and it can mess with your chi. i have found that the easiest way to take the wind out of a bully's sail (other than formally addressing it) Is to state and repeat if necessary, what the real facts are. And only do it when you absolutely must. Engaging with a bully makes them want to bully more. her words and actions only affect you if you let them.

[issidore]

Thank you MickeyCheeky and sarahsweets for your compassion, kindness and advice! Much appreciated

From reading your replies I realize I have given very little information about any of our behavior so I'll try to clarify that.

First let me say that the suggestions you made here about how we should act are spot on. All three of us(but since I am not always present at their shifts perhaps I should speak only for myself) know these things and we try to behave like that. Although I must say that the two out of three of us have only been working there for 2 months, so there was a period which involved getting to know this gaslighter (I'll call her Gassy), trying to evaluate her behavior, which involved mistakes I would not now repeat. We didn't, of course, realize that she is an abuser, so we did things we shouldn't have, like explaning things to her, trying to offer our point of view, etc, which always ended up with her telling us that she is right and we don't know anything. The two of us have had nervous reactions to her behavior, which we now realize she could use against us so we try to control ourselves,although it's quite difficult, especially since we've been working there for such a short time, and our new workplace honeymoon phase has been cut off.
I'll call the coworker who's new there like I am 2, and the other one I'll call 1, the one who's been there for 4 years.

When Gassy criticises me and accuses me of being unprofessional for doing the same thing she did, I say that I am following procedure and that I will do as the procedure dictates.The problem is that she then has a habit of flying off the handle, calling people on the phone and speaking in my name, often wrongly interpreting what I've said and done, and then I have to explain myself to these people on the phone (the people she's calling are not my bosses, but a centre in a different city which does the same job as we do but a lot longer, so we call them if we have any questions).

I do not react to her gossip, so she doesn't share it with me as much. I repeatedly told her that other people's behavior is not my business and that I am here to do my job. I only mentioned this here because she spreads gossip about us, and since I am new there and she isn't, I am afraid that other coworkers she gossips with will listen to her and jeopardize my job.

I did the criticizing, which was a mistake I made in that earlier period. Instead of telling her what I tell her now, that I am following procedure and that's that, I engaged myself into explaining to her why her suggestions and behavior don't make sense. One example- 2 didn't do a certain assignment right. Not on purpose, she just made a mistake, she's new. A person from the centre located at the different city which I've mentioned sent an e-mail notifying us about the mistake (the assignment is done via computer, so they see what we're doing). 2 said that she asked the person from the other centre for help, but that this person didn't have time as he was busy doing something else. Gassy then erupted and started calling the other centre's number, asking for the person who wasn't able to help, calling him names to his coleagues and to us, saying that he's incompetent, he's an idiot, saying he'll have to answer to her(again,she's not anyone's boss!), etc. Then she said to us that we won't do that assignment at this moment,because we are still new and we don't know yet how. I did the same assignment a few days earlier and did well. I said to her, „why didn't you ask 2 what went wrong, and why should I not do it, since I showed that I do know how?“. She didn't want to hear it, „no, you won't do it, you are new,you don't know how, out of the question“. The other centre's reaction was that 2 did make a mistake, but nothing unfixable. I kept doing it anyway, and so did 2. Neither of us made any mistakes from then on.

My behaviour towards her now looks like this- I politely but coldly only speak to her when our job requires us to. When she says something else, comments on something or something of the sort, I stare at my computer and don't say anything. She stopped repeating gossip or asking me what I think about him or her because I have told her that these people's business is not my own. Now the only comments she makes are something like „oh, I have to go buy new pants, but that's such a pain in the ***“. I do not reply to such comments. She only asks me to go smoke a cigarette with her, which I politely decline. When I first came to work there, I talked a lot more with her, as I now do with the other two, but since I realized what she's like I stopped and now she doesn't talk as much either. She still bosses me around, reminds me to do something I already know that I should do(always with a condescending tone), to which I just say that I know I need to do that. She also tries to do my part of the job without asking me, to which I say that this is what I do and that she should do her part. Most of the time she sits there angrily, although from time to time she tries to suck up to me. Like cheerfully asking me to go smoke a cigarette with her like nothing's wrong, and when other people are present, she bosses me around even more. Recently she told me that I am really good at my job out of the blue. She repeated that several times. I said thank you. Another co-worker from the other department came into our office and she started criticising me and reminding me nervously that I should to x and y, while I was doing those things. She injects herself into my part of the job constantly. If I'm on the phone, she's like „who's that? What are they saying, what?“.

I know that other co-workers think that the rest of us don't do as much because of her kissing up to them by doing excessive work because they came and told us to be more like her. I witnessed it twice, and 1 told me about such events that occurred previously. They said that we should look up to Gassy. When we told these people that what Gassy is doing is really not what we are paid for, they just snarked and left. They are not familiar with our procedure, so I guess it seems like to them like we are avoiding work. Gassy knows this and uses it to her advantage.

As for our immediate boss, the situation is like this. 2 quickly realized what she's dealing with here, and she told our boss. He said he will talk to Gassy. We don't know if that happened or not, but if it did, he certainly never mentioned anything to us. 1 has been telling him for years, but nothing came of it. I reminded my boss that he promised 2 he will do something about it, and he told me that he will set up a meeting.He said that with some explaining, she will come around. I am really not sure that this is a good idea, and all three of us are afraid (I know because we've talked about it) that she will resent this meeting and be even worse towards us afterward. So yes, I guess you are right; if he doesn't do anything, we will take it to the HR. Only one small problem, the HR consists of only one person and apparently that person is the similar sort of person as Gassy. I don't have this confirmed, though, although many people have warned me about him, my boss included.

There perhaps could be another solution. One colleague from a different department who is also abused by her (Gassy is checking his scheduleand bossing him around, and she doesn't even know how to do his job!) and who complained about her to our boss (the same one) told me that our boss' boss knows about her, that he's fed up with her and that he's just waiting for another incident to occur to fire her. I don't know if this is true, and he did say that he doesn't want me to use this info. I don't know why he doesn't want me to, we didn't have enough time do talk, but I will ask him.
If you don't think it's mental ilness, and she might not have it, I am not a psychologist, do you think that my boss' solution would work? That if he explains things to her, she will listen? I don't know if he had done this for the past four years or not. 3 days have now passed since I've talked to him about Gassy and he didn't say anything, and more than a month has passed since 2 complained about her to him. Yesterday I saw him and asked him about the matter again. He told me he will do something soon. And then he started telling me that he understands me, that there is this other coleague bothering him. Like we are friends or something! I am very sceptical that he will do something. What do you think?

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

If you dont mind I wanted to try and address multiple points ..

If she is not your boss how about saying.." thanks for your suggestion. I think I will run it by____(Mr bossman) and see what he wants me to do"

There will always be office gossip. As long as you do not feed into it or even address it she will (hopefully) learn that you dont care about what isnt true.

Who is doing the criticizing? Your boss? If so, if she attempts to try and justify I would say" You will have to take it up with___(whoever criticized her) because it doesnt involve me.

Personally I would nip that in the bud by sharing something like.." I do not like to talk about people when they are not here. How about I go get (whomever) so you can discuss this with them?"


To be honest..we teach people how to treat us. If we allow unwanted things to be said or happen and not address it then it will not stop. It is especially helpful to not engage in anything critical or otherwise with her. Let the boss do that.

How do you know they think this? Has anyone said or asked you about it? If it were to come up it may be helpful to say" Thanks for your offer to help but Mr Bossman asked me to do it and I would like to follow protocol. If she goes behind your back to do it or attempts to do it anyway then address the person or people that asked you to do something " i know you asked me to do XXX but Mrs pain-in the-*** decided to do it so if there are any questions I suggest you ask her".

This is workplace bullying. Personally I would consider taking it to human resources but before you do I recommend you talk to your immediate boss and say something like " You have told me about past issues with Ms pain-in the-*** but I would like to formally address the workplace bullying with HR. Unless you have any suggestions on how we can handle it?"


I do not think it is anything to tie to mental health issues. Sure, she may sound like someone with Narcissistic issues, but I think its almost doing a disservice to anyone with a mental illness by trying to tie her bad behavior to a mental illness. Its almost like people wondering if someone is bipolar just because they are moody. Some people are just jerks and it doesnt need to be tied to a mental illness. Unless being an asshole is a mental health condition that I was unaware of. Straight up this is workplace bullying, a hostile and toxic work environment and you shouldnt have to deal with this. She shouldnt be allowed to get a way with it but if you do not pursue the proper avenues to address it formally- well she will just keep doing it unchecked.

Bullies are very good at making you question yourself and causing you to get all critical of yourself. That is not an environment conducive to working and it can mess with your chi. i have found that the easiest way to take the wind out of a bully's sail (other than formally addressing it) Is to state and repeat if necessary, what the real facts are. And only do it when you absolutely must. Engaging with a bully makes them want to bully more. her words and actions only affect you if you let them.

This is great advice. Dealing with workplace bullies takes a lot of boundary setting, standing up for yourself and directly speaking up.