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Old Mar 22, 2015, 09:41 PM
Seeyalater Seeyalater is offline
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Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsoft View Post
I agree with marmaduke's mention of men still tending to feel they must be earners - some feel it's basic masculinity and others have just been taught this from culture/environment - even if they don't even realize it sometimes, I think. . . .

Bear me with me through this story - I promise there is a reason for it.

My mother and father had both been breadwinners throughout my entire life with neither taking issue making more or less than the other, but when my dad was laid off and couldn't find another job because of industry cutbacks in general, he felt like a complete failure and spiraled into depression, continuing to state he felt he couldn't provide and that he was letting down and failing our entire family... Amidst this, my mother had started her own business and it was taking off, and that was another reminder of the fact he was not working. He had also been the caretaker of his worsening mother's health during this time with no help from his side of the family, feeling crushing responsibility and pressure. When she passed, this obviously added stress and grief. He then went into a stage of being nasty and impatient with just about everyone - everything was wrong unless it was his way. Anything he for which had an opinion was an explosively heated opinion. He'd confront anything, as long as it wasn't the thing that had put him in this state. Although he did not blame anyone per se, he was essentially emotionally abusing the whole family by forcing us to walk on eggshells 24/7, as we feared a backlash and subsequent spoiling of the whole rest of the day. He would say some pretty mean, harsh, tactless, and completely out-of-character things. He very clearly felt worthless & helpless and was trying to control everything else because he couldn't control that which he wanted to most. He would then moan that no one wanted to spend time with him, that it hurt. But, why would we want to at that point? It was full-on depression with the hangings-on of grief, but of course he'd never get professional help - again, upbringing.

After a certain point, tolerance and understanding only go so far - he had abused that support and shifted into feeling sorry for himself and using anything as an excuse to not get back to finding work/improving himself while continuing to lash out - he was being a child allowed to tantrum, and in some ways, that was our fault too. It took my mom basically saying: "I love you, I hate seeing you hurt, but I'm absolutely sick of this, and if something doesn't change on your end, I'm going to have to make some huge ones on my side that affect both of us that you probably won't like. For your own sake, for our marriage, and for your loved ones, you need to get your ***t together - I'm sick of trying to keep from drowning with you when you won't even try to swim, and I need to save myself."

She told him a gentler version of this to begin with, but after things didn't improve at all, she gave a second and last chance with that full punch. I've no doubt that my mother would have left - even with decades of marriage full of love. She is a woman of her word and self-sufficient... and my father knows that. When presented with his options and a verbal spreadsheet (again, twice) of what his behavior was doing to everyone and really looked like, he did make major changes. He began to pick himself up and dust himself off - which we all saw, and were happy to lend a hand to that endeavor. An ungraceful process and a slow one, rising from a fall in mud, especially mud you've sunken into for years (yes, years)...but in the end, he was still standing.

Now, my father is happier than I've seen him in years, since I was a little kid, having found another job (even though lower paying and different than before) made some friends, and gotten back to doing things that he enjoys. ...He is happy with himself again, and it shows. He's even eating better, getting some exercise, and has lost weight! He and my mother are back to being a couple. Also, my mother is enjoying more things after her sink-or-swim decision, and is less reliant on others determining her experiences. If she wants to see a movie and he doesn't feel like it, she goes anyway and has a great time! Even those little, seemingly mundane things have big effects.

...It's being as healthy as you can be.
Per Merrium-Webster - health: the condition of being sound in body, mind, or spirit; especially: freedom from physical disease or pain; flourishing condition.

The saying that we need to learn to love ourselves before we can love others is no BS, and it applies to so many more emotional acts than just love. Worth, support, joy... It is one of the most important lessons I have ever learned. (Others include creamcheese packets in the microwave = unexpected candle, etc.)

But seriously. Does your situation feel healthy right now? Do you consider your condition to be flourishing? I think not. I see everything in your situation that I saw occur in my family, and I do not wish that on anyone.

Livingspaces and commuting aside -
Your husband was upset, you wanted to find out was wrong so you could help. He got upset, and you listened. You've given him space, which is what he asked for; you honored that request and in doing so supported his wishes to catch his breath - after all, we all need to sometimes. You've taken the time to cater to his wishes for the support of him feeling better, even at your detriment, to get to a point ready to discuss what is really wrong and alter things where called for. You gave him love and respected him.

He has not respected you.

In love, we can forgive moments, tolerate the wrongdoing in understanding the effects of the hurt in the individual.

But, as I've stated, tolerance and understanding can only go so far. And, a marriage is give and take.

He has not respected you or given you due consideration for your well-being during a time he knows is difficult (your Master's finalization). He is an adult and your husband, and he is responsible for knowing what his wife is doing. He is not exempt because he is having a hard time himself.

You've given him the support he asked for, and are now asking for discussion of the subject that will begin the repair of what has happened. He refuses to speak about it or offer the notion of its solution.

He blames you but won't talk about the core of what he is accusing you of. How can you feel bad or apologize for something you don't know?

He won't speak of your marriage and so won't repair it, but also does not want a divorce. You're there for him, but where is he?

He feels insecure about and is lashing out and punishing you for your successes because he is disappointed with his own progress and accomplishments rather than discussing it with you. He's having a tantrum because something's not fair, but he is an adult, not a child.

He has gone past that point of understanding and tolerance, and is abusing your support and your love. You've done much, and he will do nothing. He has done nothing during this time but get upset, be inconsiderate, and feel sorry for himself.

You've continued to work and advance your studies, which is fantastic...but you can continue to do other things. He cannot be holding you hostage waiting, let alone under terms he won't describe. How can you provide what he wants when he won't tell you what it is?

...Thing is, he's not a King, and you are in control of you. You don't have to wait on what he wants.

What do you want? It seems like he has been calling all of the shots and you, in trying to be supportive and not make things worse, have complied. But nothing is changing, nothing is getting better. Even worse, he is putting you through an emotional hell throughout, attacking anything so he doesn't have to face the thing he needs to.

It is difficult to be sure, but I think it's time for you to tell him what you and want and what you need. Don't let him take you down with him. If he wants to continue wallowing in his insecurities and feeling sorry for himself, let him. You'll be there when he's ready to stop throwing a tantrum and is ready to be a husband and talk with his wife. ....If that's what you want.

Don't let him walk all over you. Remind him, firmly if needed, that you are his wife and he is not your father. You married him because you wanted him as a husband, and if he's upset and tired of feeling like a father, tell him you're tired of him acting like a father. You didn't grow up and get married to put up with that ***t. It's unacceptable. You're also not his mother, and you don't need to pacify his tantrums.

Someone has to act, and with purpose, and it doesn't look like he's capable of doing that right now. Make the first move, and make it one for your sake.
And if you need help, ask for it. Reach out to his father, reach out to your own family - reach out for support for you.
Take your health in your own hands.
Because of your input I had to respond. We're at the end of March now. It's been a couple of weeks since I read your post. As you know I am back in the house. I've changed my cooking from 3 days a week to 6 days a week. I'm sti in the home and things are good. No not great like I thought they were but better since the last time you responded. Just last week I asked about our marriage and he said he doesn't know what he wants. I have been back in the house, we work, eat, and sleep together in the same bad. Before we go to bed we both say I love you. Last week he tells me he doesn't know what he wants. I think I'll give it a couple more weeks to see where I stand. I have less than eight weeks to finish school and I'll take it from there. I've had a lot of patience and I still get the I don't know answer. I read every bit of your story. Thank you I really enjoyed it.