[shadowalker164]

A couple of thoughts on the nature of spirituality.

The soul of communication is understanding what each of us says to one another, and in this world of spirituality and it’s discussion, being misunderstood is easy to do.

Let me start out with the notion that there is a map and then there is the territory the map represents. They are often called the same thing, but they are not. If I had a map and was planning a trip from Tallahassee to Pensacola, and someone asked me what I was looking at, I might say “I am looking at the road to Pensacola when in actuality, that’s not true. I am only looking at a representation of that road, an abstraction of the reality of that road.

That is what any discussion of the nature of spirituality is, an abstraction. Only an incomplete representation of a much larger reality. I don’t possess the words to properly describe it. I suspect no one possesses the ability to put into words that which is basically indescribable. So if that is true, discussions of spirituality will always be clumsy and woefully incomplete efforts.

One more thing… When a theoretical physicist studies sub atomic reactions, he or she does not use Newtonian physics as one of their tools. Newtonian physics are quite solid observations about how things in this world interact, but they are of no value when discussing how quarks and leptons behave. They don’t obey those laws.

In fact, it seems that the rules that sub atomic particles, and for that matter, the biggest things observed in the cosmos do obey is something called string theory, And one of the interesting things about string theory is it predicts quite a few dimensions more than the 4 we live with in this world. Maybe a few as nine, maybe more. And every one of those extra dimensions are basically indescribable as well. We can’t see them, we can’t touch them, can’t go visit them, and we can’t quantify them any more than we can quantify spirituality. Yet, it seems they are real enough.

They, the extra dimensions, do appear to manifest themselves in what we do see. I have found this to also be true of what I understand to be spirituality. My life is fundamentally altered by something unseen. On my mental map, I call that unseen force spirituality, others have other words to describe it, But maybe we are all talking about the same thing. It seems there is more to this world than just the things I can wrap my fingers around. Just because I can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

On the road to the good stuff,
Richard

[Perna]

Good map not the road analogy. I think we're all talking about the same thing too; think that's how we can have "different" beliefs/gods/spirituality and still all be "right."

[AnAbnormalYoungMan]

shadowalker164 -

i am interested to know what substance you use because ur spirituality post is in the substance abuse section.

i believe i had a spiritual experience too; it has changed my life.

but i used to use LSD. so in material terms im wondering if this drug woke up dormant parts of my brain, since acid is very psychoactive. and i have seen many people who have started using the drug and become extremely spiritual.

p.s. i acknowedge the futility of spiritual explanations and the magic of quantum mechanics.

[shadowalker164]

AnAbnormalYoungMan…
I swear, you name a drug, and I took it. With the possible exception of some of the newest designer drugs I have done it all. I left Viet Nam in 1970 strung out on smack, and quit it totally once back in the world. Stationed in Georgia, found LSD and Mescaline. Old school had it that when one had tripped over 100 times, they wore a leather strap tied to their thigh, I wore two of them. Got shipped to Germany and couldn’t get good acid anymore so I went straight to crystal meth. That my friend is the cruelest drug in the world. It reeks havoc on the body and the mind. After the Army, I quit most class A narcotics, and just drank. And after many years as a functioning alcoholic, I hit my bottom. And Found myself in AA.

That is a short history of my drinking and drugging career. The reason I posted on spirituality was myself and Amerikasend were having this discussion on the nature of this thing we call spirituality. Amerikasend has a hard time with formal religion, and that is not hard to understand, and I wanted to draw the distinction between what I see as my spiritual path and that path.

On your question on chemical enlightenment, seeing God while high on LSD, there is something to that. But it was like quicksilver for me, as soon as that grand dimensional awareness struck me, it slipped away. I had the most profound thoughts that I couldn’t remember 5 seconds after having them. It was peak through a crack in the door. But it was not walking over the threshold.

Richard

[AnAbnormalYoungMan]

richard-
i had my spiritual experience when i was sober; though i had dropped some quality acid at a rave on a breach about a month before.

my spiritual experience was a transition from seeing the world analytically to seeing the universe as Glorious creation of God! after this experience even religion started making sense to me.

u have much more experience with drugs than i do. i only used psychostimulants for about 3 years. whats AA?

G

[shadowalker164]

AnAbnormalYoungMan…
AA stands for Alcoholics Anonymous. The grand daddy of all recovery programs. When all else has failed to get or keep a hopeless sot like myself sober, then AA becomes the last house on the block. It saved my life.

Of all the forums available at PsychCentral, I post here alone. I understand that my spirituality post seemed better suited for another forum, but it is important to understood that one of the cardinal tenants of Alcoholics Anonymous is we suffer from a spiritual disease. And in that spirit, I was explaining my take on spirituality.

It is good to perceive this world as a dance of time and space. A Glorious creation of God! As a thing in harmony with itself. And perhaps it’s ultimate purpose for existence is to produce beings like us that can perceive it for what it is. Then again, maybe I have it all wrong. Either way the works of this existence are not only more marvelous than I imagine, they are more marvelous than I can imagine.

If you don’t mind my asking Abnormal, why are you here? I am here to stay sober myself, and maybe be of some use to someone else trying to get it. But you my friend, what are you searching for?

Richard

[AnAbnormalYoungMan]

richard-
im on anti-psychotics (ziprasidone). i have tappered my dose without telling my doc( who's in my home country and im not). so i came to this site looking for advice and perspectives on whether i'll have another psychotic attack.

i found this forum and though id read some posts because i have experience with acid,ex,ketamine,MDMA,hash and weed. im done with all that now though. i read ur post and found it interesting.

i agree that, the most marvelous thing about his universe is consciousness. the fact that we can comprend our existance and attempt to communicate experience is so beautiful!

have u read aldous huxley's "doors of perception"?

[anniego]

Dear Shadow,
I have taken many acid trips, been on uppers but preferred
downers, smoked a mountain of pot over the years but alcohol was my most constant companion. I was raised in traditional Christian form but as an adult never darkened a church door without misgivings. Only when my boys were little did my ex and I attend church because we thought it was the proper thing to do. For over 15 years now I have
abandoned organized religion in favor of a God of my understanding and a spiritual way of life. I, too, am blessed by being a sober member of AA and am at peace
with my spirituality. By working the steps daily, I live the quality of life where I feel good in my own skin and don't need to escape reality by drinking. I've discovered that I feel
closest to God while on horseback adventures in the wilderness or in helping others.
Wishing you a wonderful 2007.
Anniego