frustrated with family fallout

So the family fallout fun continues. As said in earlier emails, I had to cut ties with my mom last week. Well this week they are coming out to see my grandparents (her parents) who recently moved into an assisted living home in the same city that I live....their purpose is to take them to the doctor and deal with some other legal matters.

Anyways, they are bringing with them my younger brother, who is 24 and still lives with them. As he never reads his emails, I emailed my dad to ask if I could arrange a time to pick my brother up so I could see him. Finally after 3 days he sent a 1 line message basically saying we'll see what your brother wants to do if he comes.

I am so frustrated with this as I have a feeling they are trying to make it difficult to see my brother as "revenge" for what I have done. The thing is my brother is an adult and can make his own choices. I decided I will just have to call my grandparents house and ask to speak with my brother in order to arrange things directly with him.

I am still in disbelief that things in our family have come to this point and I just cannot wait for my counselling appointment to be arranged so that I can work through all this anger I have.

Thanks again for "listening." k13

glad you are in counselling...it will help you through this, however it turns out. a caution-your brother may not want to see you, idk. so be prepared for whatever happens. that way you will not be upset as much.
family dynamics can be troubling. i took the high road and replaced a dysfunctional family with loving friends, justme. it has proven to be far more rewarding.
best wishes on the upcoming visit. oh, what have you done that they may want revenge, as you put it?

Hi k13,

I'm so sorry to hear about the family "fallout." It really sounds like you are doing the right thing for yourself in setting these boundaries. I know how you feel. These boundaries that can be more healthy for us can be difficult and feel lonely. I bet counseling will really help. Wish I knew just the right thing to say... but I can relate and know how you feel. Sending good wishes your way.

E

Good news. I got a hold of my brother and was able to set up time to see him this week........what a reliefe as I would have been sad not to see him.

I am vey close with both of my siblings, and I knew my brother is not angry with me at all and would want to see me, so I had no worries about that. I was more concerned that my parents would make it difficult somehow.

.......To madisgram....I posted earlier this week under cutting off dry drunk parent...but to make a long story short I set boundaries with my mom last week and told her I was detaching from her until she agreed to attend family counselling with me. I am pregnant so she's upset that I am cutting her off from her future grandchild (although she has the option to avoid that by attending counselling with me) ......and she and my dad are angry (I did not cut ties with my dad but he is still upset with me).

Anyhow, knowing I get to see my little bro makes me happy and is the ray of light in the crappy rain cloud of this week.

I'm glad you saw your brother but if you're having a problem with/don't want to talk to your mother, then I think you have to make other arrangements to see your siblings than going through your parents, especially since your brother is grown. I think your mother can be angry with you, she's as entitled to her feelings and opinions as you are to yours but going "through" her household, like it isn't hers is "cheating" in a sense; I don't think you'd like if she decided to take you to court after your child is born to get to "see" her grandchild would you? That would make you angry?

Boundary lines have to do with people's actual behavior, as in, "If you say/do X (very specific behavior/words), then I will leave immediately; I do not want my child to learn to use those words."

Currently you have your mother in a double bind. A double bind is like, "Have you quit beating your wife yet?" if one says, "yes" that means they agree they were beating their wife in the first place; if they say "no" then it means they are still beating their wife. They can't win in your eyes.

If your mother agrees to attend family counseling with you, that means she agrees with your assessment of herself as a universal "bad" guy and unfit grandparent when there are no grandchildren yet so you cannot know how she will be with her grandchildren. You are trying to hold her hostage based on you and her past relationship.

I have no doubt your mother has said/done ugly things in relation to you but the only way that can be "fixed" is by you "teaching" her how you now want to be treated. That is boundary setting. You have to confront her when she makes a mistake, not "globally"/beforehand. As a line in one of my favorite books, The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle says, "The wicked uncle cannot be found out and foiled before he does something wicked." You have to work boundaries on-the-spot, not in advance because you can't know the future.

I can understand if you wish, for your own mental health, not to see your mother anymore but you cannot change/control her behavior. She's another person and has a right to be however she wishes and make her own choices according to her own background and understanding. Where would you "stop" in your change of her; you can lead a horse to water but not make them drink; what if she wants to see her grandchild so goes to counseling with you? Would you then up the ante and demand a certain response of her to suit you?

Interesting post, Perna. At first I didn't think I agreed with you. But in retrospect, I see your point. Krusty13, it is clear from your posts that your mom has some unhealthy, destructive behaviors. But I see Perna's point in that you probably are not going to be able to fix them. This has been a hard one for me too. I had really wanted my dad to come with me to therapy. But my T did not jump right on board with this idea. Not that she was set against it. But she kept asking me to think very carefully about exactly what it was that I wanted to accomplish. Because, as she pointed out, what if my dad simply refused to hear anything I was saying?
On the flip side, there may indeed be a positive outcome to meeting with our parents/families in the presence of a therapist. But - Perna am I hearing you right (?) maybe holding this out as an ultimatum may skirt the issue that we are all simply responsible for ourselves and cannot make someone change in the event that they feel no need to. I'm sorry to chime in like this. Please leave this post if it is helpful to no one. I am simply dealing with issues that are quite similar and thought it might open up this tough discussion.

this is proving to be an interesting thread. while reading i recall something i learned in therapy...i do not have to be an all or nothing person. sometimes it takes reasonable compromise. it was perna's post that reminded me of this. if we feel our family dynamics are damaging to us, healthy boundaries that we set are useful.
k13, i hope you can find that "spot" that works for you. glad you got to see your brother. but i agree, in the future direct contact with him to set things up is a good idea. glad you called him at the grandparent's.i almost posted that originally, so thanks, perna!
with a lil one on the way now is a good time to decide how you want to do this,k13. babies arriving in a family are so exciting for everyone. hopefully you can come to some agreement with mom re this that you feel comfortable with.
i have seen your posts elsewhere but forget, do you attend al-anon? it might provide you with additional support/coping skills re your mom.

I agree with you, Elana05 about Perna's post - but it is not easy to let go of the desire that one's parents change. I so want to have a relationship with my mother. And I think I seek the feelings I want from her from peers, thus putting a lot of strain on friendships. (which is probably why they haven't lasted) But I don't know how to get past the feelings. Seeking a love that's not there. Or at least not expressed in a way that feels loving to me.

k13 - congrats on getting to see your brother! I hope if your mom agrees to come to therapy the two of you can come to a resolution that works for both of you.

Hi all, first I want to thank you all for your input on this issue. It gives me alot to consider and think about.

I don't want to go through my parents and their house to get to my brother, but unfortunatley he has the same phone number, has no cell phone ( so I have to call their house to talk with him) and he barley checks his email, making it very difficult to get a hold of him. When he was here I did talk to him about this and I think we have found an alternative so that I don't have to go through either of my parents at all.....so I totally get what you were saying, but I had to wait to see him in person so we could work out a better "plan."

I agree with alot of what has been said here. I can definately see how I am trying to "control" or "change" my mother's behaviour, but when I spoke with her initially I explained that we both have issues with how we deal with eachother, and that I want to work on making our relationship better. I told her that both of us become negative with one another and I wanted to see a therapist so we can learn to communicate better than we do, which is either to just secretly get mad and not say anything, or argue - neither of which are healthy. I agree she has the right to be angry and upset, who wouldn't be? I guess I see our mutual anger as an opportunity to make change, and she does not feel the same.

I guess alot of why I am frustrataed is that in her erecovery she has not always been like this. About 10 years ago she was calmer, more positive, dealt with stress effectively, worked through issues, and helped all of us get through our stresses with good techniques and advice. Therefore I know she can behave in a different way.....maybe it is too much to expect her to be like that forever.


The issue of me deatching is not just about how she will act around my child in the future, but how she curently acts.....which is negative. I have many times told her I about the negativity and that I did not want to listen to it, and when I address it in the moment she gets offended....and says I am being cold and mean. If I try to ignore it, she continues being negative....so at times I also feel like I am being held hostage, and that there is no right way for me to interact with her or address the issues as they arise. All of the behaviours I am concerned and frustrated with are things she is doing currently, not from the past. Actually this has only become an issue within the past 6 or 7 years, with the last 3-4 years being progressivley worse.

I also never said she could not have a part in her grandchilds life. I said to her I needed to detach until we go to counselling, and she interpreted this as me not letting her see her grandchild, although that was never stated.

I do not believe I would exepct a certain response from her if we did go to counselling, all I want is for us to at least try to work on improving this realtionship and perhaps learn how to communicate better. I would like to know how I can be honest with her without offending her, how to be more tolerant and patient, and anything else I need to change to make things better. I realize that I have a part in this relationship breakdown too, and am willing to hear what that is and work to fix it, but I cannot fix it alone.

I am starting my own counselling on this stuff this week. As I want to adress where my "boundaries" lie, how to cope, how to react to her in future etc... that may be more effective. I know I cannot change her but am willing to change myself whether she wants to participate or not. Until I am able to work through this stuff better, I am not speaking with her. Perhaps going to counselling for myself will allow me to deal with this more effectively whether or not she changes......which is what I hope to accomplish from this all. I do not plan nor want to never speak with her at all, which is why I wanted to go to family counselling, but I do know that I am no longer willing to tolerate her negative behviour without addressing it, and pretending like it does not exist.

Thanks again all, any more comments or advice on what I have said here is welcome. I will keep you in touch with what I am learning in counselling. K13

Hi K13,

It seems like you are really working on this.
My heart is with you.
I really can relate.
Good wishes to you for your start up in councelling.

E

good plan!!! you're correct, in therapy you can address these issues and get good suggestions. i know this is a painful time for you but you are seeking solutions. that is a great way to do it. your therapist can be objective and it is obvious you want better things in/for your life. i'm proud of your efforts, justme. it's a new beginning!!!! i do feel you will find ways of dealing with your situation that you are comfortable with. having an open mind is just the beginning of SUCCESS.
keep us posted, k?