[StrongerMan]

I just don't feel comfortable with any of it. Been to a few meetings and at the end they/we all gather around and say the Lord's Prayer etc... I don't see how that holds to the idea of God "as I see him". That holds to Christianity... but my spirituality is not necessarily based on that. I feel this goes against the Al-Anon Family Groups precepts of being for any faith. I pray my own way and it is not a group deal. It is personal. I don't really see how I can go to those meetings and refuse to join in that prayer circle. I feel I would be alienating myself. I was hoping to find an ACoA group that is not 12 step related, but I guess that is just not to be found in my area. Aside from the religious aspect, I also feel valuable time is spent reading the laundry list etc... Also, just talking out into space with no back and forth discussion (sharing) does nothing for me. Anyone overcome these misgivings or feel the same way? Note, I am an introvert and group things aren't my deal to begin with.

[unaluna]

I'm surprised they say the Lord's prayer - I think when I've been, they only say the Serenity prayer. They are supposed to follow a set script, maybe there is choice of prayers? A solution to that would be to become such a regular member that you start leading the meeting, then YOU choose the Serenity prayer! But you know what they say, "take what you need and leave the rest." I think I am going to start ACOA this weekend; elsewhere on PC this week, somebody said how self-care is our problem, we want to take care of someone else but not ourselves - I think I need to hear and study that message. I'm going to go figure out the bus route right now.

[LightningMan]

Originally Posted by StrongerMan

I just don't feel comfortable with any of it. Been to a few meetings and at the end they/we all gather around and say the Lord's Prayer etc... I don't see how that holds to the idea of God "as I see him". That holds to Christianity... but my spirituality is not necessarily based on that. I feel this goes against the Al-Anon Family Groups precepts of being for any faith. I pray my own way and it is not a group deal. It is personal. I don't really see how I can go to those meetings and refuse to join in that prayer circle. I feel I would be alienating myself. I was hoping to find an ACoA group that is not 12 step related, but I guess that is just not to be found in my area. Aside from the religious aspect, I also feel valuable time is spent reading the laundry list etc... Also, just talking out into space with no back and forth discussion (sharing) does nothing for me. Anyone overcome these misgivings or feel the same way? Note, I am an introvert and group things aren't my deal to begin with.

Stronger Man, are you sure you're not confusing the Serenity Prayer with the Lord's Prayer? The Serenity Prayer starts "God grant me the serenity..." and the Lord's Prayer starts "Our Father..." The Serenity Prayer is what is supposed to start a meeting. At any rate, you can just ignore it.

I did not see the value of the Laundry List being recited at the start of every meeting at first, but I ignored it. I have come to see its importance, particularly to people just starting in the program.

Sharing (which you call talking into space) is important to get your story out there without someone interrupting you or criticizing you. ACoA have had in their FOO a hard time just getting to be heard, and so I understand the control of back and forth talking.

And lastly, I am an introvert and not terribly into group and face to face things. I do my ACoA meetings on line. It adds an extra layer of anonymity.

I am sorry that you cannot see yourself doing the program, but I can attest that the program works for some. It has for me. My life has improved dramatically since I have become active with ACA. I would suggest you give it another try, at least on line.

[LightningMan]

Originally Posted by hankster

I'm surprised they say the Lord's prayer - I think when I've been, they only say the Serenity prayer. They are supposed to follow a set script, maybe there is choice of prayers? A solution to that would be to become such a regular member that you start leading the meeting, then YOU choose the Serenity prayer! But you know what they say, "take what you need and leave the rest." I think I am going to start ACOA this weekend; elsewhere on PC this week, somebody said how self-care is our problem, we want to take care of someone else but not ourselves - I think I need to hear and study that message. I'm going to go figure out the bus route right now.

I believe the Serenity Prayer is the organizational standard opening for the meeting. I don't think that under the organization rules you are allowed to deviate.

[StrongerMan]

Thanks guys.. no, it's the "Our Father..." to clarify, and both groups said it at the end while joining hands in a big circle with a final chant that followed. 2 different leaders although they have attended both meetings. I have read that there can be a group "chosen prayer" at the closing. But how do they know a new person isn't Jewish etc...? I was never asked if I had a problem or a preference. I would like to just "ignore" things or take what I want and leave the rest. But a group or family ethos implies shared participation among the individuals. I feel, in this case, better consideration should be given for all the attendees.

[madisgram]

hi stronger man, first off i'm not going to say you must attend ACOA's 12 step orogram. but i wanted to clear up any confusion if i may.
according to the "traditions" of the founders- written for the GROUP'S format, not to be confused with the steps- for the individual, the "group conscience" of all the meetings held there vote by majority for the ending "prayer" or close. the lord's prayer or the serenity prayer are just one of many endings a group uses.

But how do they know a new person isn't Jewish etc...?

there are many faiths if not all that believe in a "higher power". it is not a requirement for membership for a person to "believe" tho. i used the group as my higher power cause there was much to be learned by the group and more than i understood. there are also atheists in 12 step programs and a chapter is devoted to those ppl (agnostics and atheists) in the "big book of aa", which is the foundation used for all 12 step programs.
you mentioned you are a spiritual person. that is what the groups and 12 step programs are really based on-spirituality. none are faith-based tho it may seem otherwise. it helps to rely/believe in a power greater than ourselves rather than us having all the answers and coming up empty.
(won't go thru all your thoughts cuz you've gotten some excellent replies already. just felt my comments may clarify some things.) but i do know that having peers in a group setting can be most helpful. we all have the one thing in common even tho we come from all walks of life. those shared experiences can be our lifeline for change and recovery. ACOA's have many characteristics that are identifiers: common behaviors, dealing with emotions, feelings of abandoment, etc.

In 1983 author Janet G. Woititz listed, in her book “Adult Children of Alcoholics”, thirteen characteristics most adult children have in common. This list is also known as the “A.C.O.A. Characteristic List” by many adult children.

The 13 Characteristics of A.C.O.A.

1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end. http://acoahealing.wordpress.com/

BUT in conclusion there are other ways one can overcome traits of being an ACOA. therapy, preferably CBT, is one because false beliefs about one's self occur being brought up in that environment of addiction.

People who come from a dysfunctional family experience trauma and emotional pain, which affect their ability to live happy, fulfilling lives. They are forced into unnatural roles that deplete their self-esteem.

i am sorry for the long post. but i hope it may help you. there are other ways people have recovered from being an ACOA. i encourage you to reach out regardless if it's a 12 step program or not.

[Leed]

Hi ~ Madisgram is ABSOLUTELY right. When I went into AA and Al/Anon, I had no "higher Power" although i wasn't an atheist. I just didn't know what to believe. I was kind of offended by all the talk of "God." But I KNEW I had to be there because to do otherwise, I'd die.

And the Lord's Prayer IS said at the end of the meetings. So you are right.

All of these are NOT "religious" meetings by any stretch of the imagination. They ARE spiritual meetings. Your higher power can be a tree, the earth, the moon -- anything that YOU choose. In the beginning, I didn't have a clue what to choose. I just 'faked it till I made it." I didn't feel really comfortable being in the circle either at the end, cause of my "agnostic" feelings -- but what was I supposed to do -- stand aside and look stupid? LOL So I joined in and felt blashphemous.

It was probably several months later that I had the HUGEST spiritual awakening --you wouldn't believe it. I won't go into it here, but God actually came to me -- (no I wasn't HIGH) and ever since then I've NOT questioned his existence. When you want it badly enough and you call for him, HE COMES!!!

I hope you'll keep going to meetings. They DO help and they DO work. God bless you Strongman ~~ I'll keep you in my prayers. Hugs, Lee