[7thbird]

Hello everyone,
I found this forum only this morning. Despite having been aware of being ACOA for over 30 years, I have never looked out for help like this. I have degree in psychology and was pretty sure, all the knowledge I have should have been enough to let me cope with my own issues. Apparently, it is not. This is my story in a few words.
I am 36 years old, wife to a wonderful man and mom of two young kids, 2.5 and 5.
My both parents were/are alcoholics. They drink since I remember. They were both abusive to me: my mother abused me emotionally and humiliated me every single day of my life. My father was abusing me both: psychological and physical ways.
My father is a simple man, who followed my mother with everything she did or said. He never had his own view on things, nor ever stood for my rights. My mother is a very difficult, manipulative personality. To the outside world she was always playing the role of a good, caring mother. At home, she would tell me she hated me, that I ruined her life, she called me names, she told me I was worthless. Nobody EVER believed me, when I tried to talk to my family members about it. She kept telling them I was good at making things up. Then, she hated me even more. There were times, when she tried to "make friends" with me, asking me questions about my life, my school, my friends, etc. As a child I used to cling to her then, as I needed "mommy" so much and I thought she would be loving me now. She wouldn't. The very next day she laughed out at all my worries and secrets, calling me stupid and worthless, again. And if I dared to stand up for myself, she told my dad to punish me, so he did, when back from work. It hurt a lot.
I have read lots of threads and answers on this forum and I can subscribe to nearly all of them.
Thanks to my strong faith in God, my determination to change my life I managed to leave my parents' home being 18. I moved to another city to study. I had to work night shifts whilst studying full-time, as they would not give me any money at all. (Like many of you here, I was never given any pocket money as a kid, either). But I made it. As a postgraduate I then moved to another country. Yes, to be as far as possible from that hell..
I got married a few years later, we love each other and support each other on daily basis. We have two kids, healthy, happy and full of beans.
However, there is still couple of issues that I cannot understand and overcome. I thought, maybe I would find some answers here..
Firstly: I am trying to figure out if my alcoholic, manipulative and mood disordered mother has ever really loved me. I am not sure why, but the answer to this question is extremely important to me. I am sure I will take any answer, better than uncertainty. If she did love me, would her alcoholism be sufficient excuse for everything she did to me? Let me mention, we keep in touch still, mainly by telephone, she keeps telling me "how much she loved me", but-so she did her entire life (enough to say that her empty promises made me not believe people's words)
Secondly: Is it possible, at all for us, ACOAs to ever get rid of the guilt? This is absolutely poisoning STILL lots of aspects of my life. Eg. I cannot treat myself, thinking I do not deserve it, hardly ever buying myself new clothes, always buying them for my kids or husband first. Will it ever go??

I have many more questions, but I think I will leave them for later. Feeling too guilty to take your time:P I would be really grateful if anyone could share their thoughts.

PS I am currently looking for any ACOA group nearby, have not attended them so far.

[Big Mama]

Glad you found this site. The people here are so understanding. We do not judge here. We could and have all faced judgement at some point in time for our behaviors and illnesses. No one here would wish that on another person. So if you have come looking for an ear or someone who can relate then you have come to the right place. I hope to see you around here.

[pplplser]

> Firstly: I am trying to figure out if my alcoholic, manipulative and mood
> disordered mother has ever really loved me.

Here's my thoughts...

Alcoholism is a disease. When a person we love gets the flu, we can't cure it.
The flu will continue until treated by a doctor or it runs it's course.

An alcoholic mother is a person with a disease, one we can't cure.

There most likely is a reason she is an alcoholic. She may have inherited
some serious issues from her family of origin. Her behavior toward
you may be how she deals with her own issues.

I think it would be very rare that a mother wouldn't love her own
children. Perhaps there is love there, but she can't show it for all
of her own issues and resultant behaviors.

> Secondly: Is it possible, at all for us, ACOAs to ever get rid of the guilt?

I think so... I have made some good progress. I am not the same person as
when I started my own journey. I had to dig pretty deep to find the faulty
programming, but I have a very good grasp of it now.

As a child growing up with an alcoholic mother I did not have the skills
that an adult does. The result of my development in that environment is what
I work on now.

[7thbird]

When I was born, I looked very much like my father's family, especially like my father's mother, whom my own mother hated. For my entire childhood I felt guilty about this, wishing I could look more like my mother, maybe then she would love me...? My mother kept telling me how much she hated her in-laws (the only one who openly called my mother alcoholic!!!) and it made me feel awfully, because I loved granny and thought it was wrong....
I understand now, it was NOT my fault at all. She would behave like she did anyway, maybe even more if I was her copy..It was alcohol doing this, not me.

[Leed]

Dear 7thBird ~ Bless your heart. Boy do I understand. Both my parents were alcoholics too -- they have since passed on. They NEVER gave us any kind of affection or attention of any kind. Like I've said here before, we may as well have been part of the furniture. We would have been better off cause we would have been dusted once in awhile -- that would be our "caressing."

Did she love you? Absolutely! I am sure of it. Alcoholics are very SELFISH people, but they are not BAD people. Generally they have good hearts, but they're too busy getting drunk to let anyone know it. I'm susre your Mother loves you --- she may not tell you, but she does. If anything ever happened to you, it would KILL her. You can rest assured that yes, she loves you and always has.

The Guilt ~ Well, lets say that it eases up. Mine isn't completely gone, but I don't feel nearly as "bad" as I used to. I'm not sure that has anything to do with ACOA. I think it has more to do with MOTHERHOOD. i've talked to other mothers who are NOT ACOA and they feel the same way!!! If they aren't buying for the children or husband, they feel increibly guilty! Now I wonder why that is? We women work 24/7 and yet we deprive ourselves of things we need! Go figure. But like i said, my guilt is easing, but the funny thing is, my kids are grown and my husband died, so what's the deal?? Why should *I* feel guilty? I have no idea.

'I wish you well. God bless and take care. Hugs, Lee

[7thbird]

Thank you for your words. I know it sounds weird asking strange people on the internet forum "does my mother love me"; however, if this question burns so much that it gives you insomnia and depression, you loose nothing by asking. I think I feel some sort of relief, although still wonder, how could ANYBODY treat their children like they treated me and WHY do they treat one child worse than the other. My 7 years younger brother has been through a lot with them as well, but never as close to hell as I was myself.
Regarding guilt-shopping was just an example. I feel guilty in several situations every day. And I know they are related to my alcoholic parents more than to anything else. Perhaps shopping was not a very good example, as I agree with you Lee, this is something common for many of us, mothers. I am glad you are not feeling so much of it now, so neither I. And it is good and relieved to see that progress. I am looking towards the future with hope and joy.
God Bless

[Leed]

7thBird ~ My mother treated one of us kids differently than the rest too. There were 4 girls in the family and the first was the "pet" if you could call her that. She got ignored pretty much like the rest, but she was 'sickly" as a baby, but had surgery and she was fine! But when she did something wrong, I got blamed. Why it was ME and not one of the others, I'll never know. But that's the way it was. I was the third child so why not the 2nd one? ??? And she pulled some rotten antics too just so I'd get blamed. Needless to say I hated her -- and I don't like her to this day, cause she came home in 2003 when Mom died (my sis was 59 yrs old) and she started the same old thing!! So I don't like her at ALL. My kids always wondered why I disliked her so much -- they finally got to see why.

Ahhh the dysfunctional family.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by 7thbird

Firstly: I am trying to figure out if my alcoholic, manipulative and mood disordered mother has ever really loved me. I am not sure why, but the answer to this question is extremely important to me. I am sure I will take any answer, better than uncertainty. If she did love me, would her alcoholism be sufficient excuse for everything she did to me?

Secondly: Is it possible, at all for us, ACOAs to ever get rid of the guilt? This is absolutely poisoning STILL lots of aspects of my life. Eg. I cannot treat myself, thinking I do not deserve it, hardly ever buying myself new clothes, always buying them for my kids or husband first. Will it ever go??

There is no excuse whatsoever for mistreating and abusing another, especially a child. The only way you can know if your mother loved/loves you is to ask her and feel in your heart that it is true. But "love" is a pretty amorphous word? What do you mean by it, what would it take to "believe" or know your mother loved you? Since your mother is still alive, you all still have an ongoing relationship.

No one is all one thing. My stepmother was abusive (she died in 2001) but the older I get and the more experience I get the better I understand that she was not just abusive. Everyone has difficulties and copes (alcohol) is different ways, many of them not good. Your mother chose alcohol over getting help for herself and trying to make her relationship with you a good one. But "love" is strange; my stepmother and I knew we loved one another but we hurt one another nevertheless while I was growing up.

Perhaps something that might help you more is what my therapist had me do, tell the difference between love and like. I loved my stepmother but found I did not like her. I would not have chosen her for a friend, would not have hung around with her :-) Sounds like you and your mother's relationship was similar.

I would get some counselling for the guilt; sounds like you consciously know it is not "yours", you were taking care of yourself and that is your #1 and most important job in life. You cannot love others "as you do yourself" unless you love yourself first .

[7thbird]

Dear Perna,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! In many aspects we think similar. As a mistreated child of alcoholic parents, I did not know, for a veeeery long time, what "love" actually means. I used to make all classic ACoA mistakes: picking abusive people as my partners, falling into "toxic" relationships, where I could not cope so I was drinking, etc. "Love" seemed to be a very confusing word. 6 years ago I was lucky enough to meet my husband, who was completely different to all the people I met before. He won my heart by gentleness, patience, respect. I can easily say that my relationship with him has changed my life the way that no therapy had before. He offered me something I have never had in my life: unconditional love. And, thanks to that, I have learned how to love and BE LOVED. And so, having experienced normal, healthy relationship and being able to offer my own love to my children, I now see my past experiences as one big hell. Yes, I asked my mother many times "do you love me" and she used to reply "of course I love you!" but --did she really?-regarding what she used to do to me??? As you know, alcoholics are very manipulative, emotionally unstable, mood disordered people. I think, she probably felt some kind of "feeling" towards me, but her mortal disease-alcoholism- completely paralysed her ability to express it.
That is how I understand it now.