I am married to an ACOC wife.

Is this a good place to get some advice?

Our marriage is in trouble. I am no saint but....well, I need advice and a perspective from another spouse like me or an ACOC who has healed and gotten some perspective.

We all are learning...It would have meant so much to me if my xhubby was trying to find out about me being an ACOC...he was too but was not open to change...it's over but did not have to be. I wish you the very best.

Thanks. I guess I could make a list of "issues/concerns" and people can go at it...or not..

1. We have not had sex for 8.5 months. You could call it a sexless marriage.
Even when we did have sex my wife basically was uncomfortable and awkward.
We only had sex in one position...which I liked actually...her on top. I think it made her feel in control and safe? In addition to being an ACOC she was physically abused by one of her 4 older brothers. Basically dad was drunk/asleep and mom was out working to support the family.......so she was an easy target

2. She has "let her body go" and she is so out of shape that I could not get an erection.
I have always wanted her to work out and stay in shape. She did this while we dated and in our first year of marriage but then it basically has been downhill since then.....her main excuse is........"you don't love me and want me to be a fitness model and I can never measure up to your idea of perfection".......which is totally bunk since I only have wanted her to stay in shape and be committed, like she promised me when we were in the engagement process.

3. To make matters worse I am bipolar II. I am on a medication that is basically like a miracle drug for me but I just got on it a few months ago. So........you can imagine a UNTREATED bipolar male with hyper-sexuality(if you don't know what that is....its basically my manic phase making me ridiculously horny and I am thinking about sex 24 hours a day) married to an ACOC.........it makes for a toxic mix!!

4. I guess the reason I am here is.......this drug has 100% taken away my depression and controlled my manic episodes so they are almost non existent .....EXCEPT for my hyper-sexuality. So you can image how I am doing.

In typical fashion my wife has not done any working out or dieting and "seems" as happy as a clam.....

I will stop there as that is already a mouthful.

Wow...as a woman and an adult child of an alcoholic your post was not easy to read....made me somewhat angry. If she knows you feel this way, I'm guessing she does not feel very sexy - if she is in shape, in your view, or not. She may not feel good about herself for other reasons as well. You cannot control what she is going through and you have your own issues to get through. If you are interested in saving this marriage, the best you can do is get outside help...you both need some understanding and more.. good luck.

We can only work on our own problems. That you could not get an erection was never your wife's "fault" any more than she can do anything about your med-induced hyper-sexuality now.

I think there is a lot of distance between no sex and sex in a marriage; it is much more complicated than just the physical act (which it sounds like you would be fine with; just a "hot" wife and lots of sex); I don't hear any other forms of touch or companionship going on in your marriage? People are sensual even more than they are sexual and working to meld those two together in a marriage can make things very good. My husband and I "play" a lot sensually and sexually; we fit together well when I stand on a step and I am often commanded by him to "assume the position" meaning to get up on the step so he can hug and kiss me to our hearts' content. I get a "bottom pat" every night on my way up to bed (and sometimes forget/question whether I got one so I can get another :-) because it is what I enjoy and my husband enjoys my enjoyment.

Learn to enjoy your wife as she is, we women can tend to get large, warm and soft as we age and that's a good thing!

Thanks. I am getting some counseling. My wife is not. We have been in marriage counseling off and on for most of our marriage.

I agree that I cannot control her and I don't try.

I am interested to know which part was not easy to read and what made your angry? It would give me good insights I think.

My reaction is from my own issues I dealt with growing up with my alcoholic father. He treated me so bad. There was always comments about my weight and so on - I really was not over weight but my family valued being very thin. I had no mother available to defend or support me (long story - will not go there). My older brothers followed his lead. My self image/worth was in the toilet for a very very long time.

So my reactions to your post had to do with the weight...being in shape issue and being sexually attractive. My thoughts are...if in the past, your wife usually enjoyed taking care of her body and being a regular at gym and now she does not... I would guess she is maybe depressed. If that is the case, you feeling like she did not "keep her promise" about her body and such is not helping.

Your sexuality is an important part of a marriage. You cannot talk her into anything. She has to want to get help for herself. She has to want to go take care of her body again. She also needs to understand and cope with "who you are"...but she has to take care of herself first...you are taking care of your mental health and that is great news. If she does not want to get help for herself then you decide how long you can hang in there. And what you can do for your sexual release without consequences to your marriage while you are trying to make things work. IMO couples counseling is better if you are both working with individual counseling 1st.
My x only wanted me to get help. My fantasy was that one day he would show up at my counseling appointment and he would be there to say he wanted to learn how to make things work.

Brainhi,

I am sorry you family background was so hard. I can feel your pain.

My wife was abused by her brother, had an alcoholic dad and mom was too busy covering up and working.
I think the same brother who abused her called her fat etc...but that is not what she remembers the most.

I could go on and on and on....but I can reveal a little more so as to not be too verbose.

My wife is the youngest of 5 kids. It was her and her 4 older brothers. Maybe normally when a family is in this situation the mom is so excited because she has a little girl now but in this family she was treated more like one of the boys...and in order to survive in the family system my wife had to act more like a boy and her mother was more of a father figure as she wore the pants in the family.

So when I met my wife she had short hair, only wore pants, only wore androgynous izod t-shirts and was about 30 pounds overweight but more importantly had no muscle tone.

We dated. We both had the same counselor at the time who was helping her with her ACOC issues and her self esteem etc..at the time I met her she had been working really hard on that stuff and got her mental piece in great shape...or at least I thought.

At the same time that counselor was working with me on many issues but also helping me figure out what I was looking for in a lifelong mate/wife.

Separately he had my future wife and I make a list of 10 things we had to have in our future mate....

moving ahead in time....I met 10 out of 10 of my wife's list and she hit 9 out of 10 on my list. The only one that I was concerned about was I was lacking some physical attraction and I wanted to marry someone who was committed to fitness and healthy eating for life.

We stopped dating for one year. (my wife didn't know what was on my list...we never shared them with each other)

In that year her girlfriends decided that she got her insides healthy now its time to work on the outside.

So the encouraged her to lose weight, grow her hair out, lose the glasses, and use make up for the first time in her life at age 29 ! They also took her out to buy skirts and dressed and feminine tops.

For me all this change was a "sign" that caused me to pursue her and we eventually married. She kept getting in better shape, lifting weights 3-4 times a week, doing aerobics and dieting to where she was a hard/muscular/firm size 7 at 5'7".......she was a knockout.....

All I ever asked was for her to continue her commitment and growth in this area. But I believe her ACOC issues and my issues (adoption/bipolar II/artistic/addictive tendencies) have been a toxic mix.

But the bottom line is I love her and only want to have sex with her and want to get old with her!

So, I DO see the need for her to revisit her ACOC with a counselor, for me to be in counseling and maybe eventually both of us going together.

yes i also think it just comes with age and we become more comfortable with each other which can lead to some type of complacency in how we take care of ourselves, pshysically and emotionally, we have to remind ourselves to work on how we look and act toward each other. that is great you were both going to get help too!!

The only response I have at the this point is....relationships change, sounds like you do not like who she is now and what her body is like anymore. You want to have sex with her and you want to grow old with her only if she is the image you desire for the rest of your life - IMO - she is being held hostage to what YOU feel she should be. It's her life too, she chooses to be with you under those conditions - then it does not matter what I think. Scares me but I am not her - it's your llife - you decide what is best for you.

Thanks....I think its more the last 20 years raising our kids has put a lot of stress and changes...and also our jobs.......

Both kids are going off to college a]this fall and my wife has said she is looking forward to this.

BTW,

Small update......I stopped drinking beer 39 days ago. My wife, who used to drink 1/2 bottle of wine EVERY night....is also downsizing to a drink every few days........I didn't say anything but I think me not drinking is doing something.

I have also lost 15 pounds of fat and she has noticed and I also noticed she is changing her diet a bit.

I see my counselor tomorrow...I am looking forward to his perspective.

Update.

Had a session with my counselor yesterday. I am meeting with him again this afternoon.

He is helping me strategize how to help my wife and love her while being sensitive to her ACOC symptoms and place in life.

I had two sessions with my counselor in the last two days. I think you are missing some points that he made and some observations I have made as well....AND ...they are the reason I am on this forum v.s. other forums.

My wife is NOT over her ACOC symptoms and she is living them out in a destructive way. As you know there are a well defined and consensus list of main issues ACOCs struggle with.

Although my wife has made a lot of progress in many areas I believe she is still "controlled" by and hindered by a few that I will list here.

1. She is very isolated and afraid of authority figures(her bosses through the years)

She constantly seeks approval and has lost her identity in the process. She does everything for everyone and doesn't do anything for herself.(i.e. doesn't take care of her body, skin, hair, looks etc). About 90% of her identity is from being a mom and the other 10% is work. Which leaves ZERO for being a wife and trying to love me in ways that mean something to me. But more importantly......she is NOT working on "finding" herself or bettering herself or growing as a woman.

2. She is frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.

Double edged sword here and I have most of the blame and opportunity for helping her. I have bipolar II and the way my manic events have occurred is mostly anger. Also, I cannot EVER criticize ANYTHING she says or does or she just has a melt down and starts doing her victim dance.

3. she is a workaholic and keeps herself so busy she "doesn't have time" to deal with her body, finding clothes that flatter her figure, eating right. She is always outward centered and never looks in. I think its a defense mechanism to stuff her feelings of pain and hurt and her past.

4. She 100% lives life from the viewpoint of victims and she 100% is attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. I don't really need to go into this except to say that to make matters worse for the last 20 years she has not only done this but she has done it in front of our kids. You can do the math.

5. She has an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for her to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults. My wife is the poster child for this item! It creates havoc in our marriage and specifically sets up failure for her every finding time to work on her body, looks, hair, clothes etc....

6. I think my wife is addicted to excitement and the "drama" she has created in our home. She and my daughter have the longest, nastiest arguments in the world....and my wife stokes the flame...I think subconsciously she likes to have things crazy and out of control in the house.

I believe my wife loves me but I also believe when she met me she found someone she could "pity" and "rescue." I was a guy with a very bad home life and lots of insecurities and low self esteem and depression and addictive behaviors when she met me.

7. My wife "stuffs" her feelings and she never can express them and avoids and denies them. She acts like everything is great in our relationship and acts like I am not hurting and dying on the inside ...which I am....

8. My wife's view of herself is VERY low in certain areas especially her body image and femaleness. I think she hides behind her sweatshirts and short hair and pants because then its a non issue and she doesn't have to deal with it. Also whenever she sees a woman who is pretty or in shape or has a beautiful face or nice clothes she always puts her down or calls the dumb blondes. She also thinks they are prissy and says things like "give me a break" or "that's ridiculous"....

9. I don't think she has left our marriage because of the point below....

'We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.'

10. I also agree that my wife plays this out in various ways in our marriage

'Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.'
Although she DOES drink 1/2 bottle of wine EVERY NIGHT.

11. And finally,

The sentence 'Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors' is so true of her. My wife reacts to EVERYTHING I say....and especially my daughter. She babies and protects my son..........just like her mom does with her oldest son...because basically my wife's oldest brother became my mother-in-laws "husband".....the real husband was always drunk and sleeping..so she needed a surrogate. And until recently she lived with her son for the last 25 years....and he is 56 and no kids!

So Brainhi,

I hope this gives you some context. I have to admit your "reaction" and post came off to me like this

"your wife is amazing and doing well and she doesn't deserve all the crap you give her"

YES, I am not perfect. YES, I have bipolar II. YES, I have issues from being adopted/abandoned. YES I have a problem because part of my bipolarII is something called hypersexuality.

BUt....

You see, my wife is FAR from mentally healthy and functioning in a healthy , giving way in our relationship.

I want to reiterate why I am on this forum. NOT to help myself with my issues(I am in counseling for that and taking a drug) I am here to know how I can help my wife.

.....my opinions/reactions came by reading what you disclose here. As a woman and adult child of an alchololic, SOME of your remarks did not hit me well...as a result of my own issues. (mostly having to do with what she looks like and the sexuality piece on both sides). I did recognize that you are getting help and you want to learn how to help her. I did recognize that a sexual relationship is an very improtant part of a partnership.

I grew up with an alcoholic and my mother was bi-polar. I see some of your wife's behaviors in myself...I have issues I'm still trying to work on. I did not do well in marriage and choose not to have children. It's a big job to take care of myself...and I am much much better but continue to work on it. I reached out to get help. You BOTH have a lot of things going on. That's got to be REALLY hard!!...Our brains have learned a lot of messed up stuff & it's not easy to retrain the brain. Maybe the "relationship" forum could offer you more ideas and support - there is more activity there as well.

There are many helpful discussions in these forums. There is no perfect answer.
I find value in your posts and am glad I got to hear you out and was able to respond.

"Almost all our suffering is the product of our thoughts. We spend nearly every moment of our lives lost in thought, and hostage to the character of those thoughts. You can break this spell, but it takes training just like it takes training to defend yourself against a physical assault." Sam Harris

BTW, I am currently in counseling and I am taking a medication and see a Psychiatrist.

1. How do I get my wife to get counseling?
2. If she does counseling how do I get her to tell the truth to the counselor?

She has gone to counseling with me in the past and lied right in front of me in the session.

Maybe I cant do any of this and just need to pray she does it? I can only ask I guess

My first husband was an ACOA. Needless to say it didn't last long. His father was the alcoholic and very abusive. My ex took on all those traits--minus the alcoholism. His mother was sick in other ways and a "victim" and that is how he saw all women--including me, so that's how I was treated.

Unfortunately, you can't make her do anything. Praying for her is good. Other than that, you can't really do anything else but help yourself.

I went back and read some your posts here more thouroughly. Do you really want to help her or do you want us to give you pointers on how to make her become more attractive? As I said, you can't make her or "get" her to do anything. Just work on yourself.

cute,
Thanks for your replies and questions.

Here is what I am thinking.

1. I am already working on my stuff. I have a psychiatrist, I am taking meds, I also see a counselor(in the same practice). I stopped drinking alcohol myself 49 days ago. I am a biker and weight lifter and my diet is pretty solid(in other words I am also taking care of my body) and have lost 4" on my waste and 13 pounds in the last 1.5 months.

2. I need input/ideas/strategies on how to fall back in love with my wife and re-kindle or start over or whatever you want to call it...in our relationship.

The struggle is that I am a guy. Nothing against women but....I am on a few different forums getting input and its amazing how the men respond in a 100% opposite way from the women. Of course context is everything and the website I am on is a men's forum and geared to fitness and health. So even there women who are working out are telling me to give my wife an ultimatum..."get in shape or I am leaving".

In other venues I am getting this response from women " make your wife happy and divorce. She deserves better than you"

hah.......so there you go.

So I am taking neither of their advise and my goal is.......

1. What do I do to become friends with my wife and somehow not focus on her body.

2. She wants me to hold her and touch her and cuddle but her body fat and large stomach are a huge turnoff for me. At this point her belly is as big as my 77 year old mother's. And my mother had breast cancer, a mastectomy and hasn't exercised in years. Its just gross and freaks me out. My wife looks like an old lady and it is like I am married to my mother!!!

3. I am angry, frustrated, stressed and fatigued. So its hard to have extended periods of peaceful time with my wife as friends. She is angry, guarded, in denial, being defensive, and not coping well either.

4. Last night she drank OVER 1/2 a bottle of really nice white wine.

I had a conversation with her about our marriage. I said I only want her, I am struggling with our sexless marriage. I am working on getting my **** together. Not have sex is NOT an option for me (in the long run). I told her my concerns for her health both mentally and physically. I suggested she try counseling to work through some of her ACOC issues.

When I brought that up she got really, really defensive and said she has NO ACOC issues and that she is being healthy and not codependent and its all my fault in my head.

So we are in a hard place.

She is second guessing anything I say. If I said she looks nice today she would just be on me and not believe me.

I am rambling.

Maybe I could have made this shorter. and asked.

What does a women want from a man to show her he loves her?

You are getting validated by others that think the same way as you do...why would you hang on to something that repluses you? All those others that agree with you are not living your life. Why would you stay in a marriage that grosses you out. Get the f*** out. Be with someone that values the same things you do and allow your wife to do the same. I can hardly bare to read your posts. I would hate to be either one of you.

Plus you can talk all day long about the physical body!! Your brain is not healthy. Your brain is being ugly and gross. I'd rather have a great brain for myself and my significant other. Both body and brain would be great too.

Hah. Well that IS one perspective. My counselor would not agree with you. But I assume you then say I need a new counselor

Its okay...I seriously am listening to all of you and their IS truth in everything. You are making some VALID point.

Your brain is not healthy. That is true. I would say that for my wife.

WAIT....I seriously do not know ANYONE with what I consider a healthy brain and they are living a perfect, totally awesome pain free life.

I married my wife knowing she was broken and flawed. I love her despite that. AND she also knew I was broken and flawed when she said YES to me.

I may not have mention that my wife and I do not believe in divorce except in very rare circumstances. When we may the vow for better or WORSE we meant it.

At this point I firmly believe we are going to work this out. EVERY person I know who is divorced (and I know a lot personally) are UNHAPPY and some are downright miserable.

I did not say perfect. Your wife chose to be with you and you both choose to stay together. I expressed my opinions that does not mean I am right. It's your life you get to make it whatever you want it to be.

I'm sorry, but I am having a hard time feeling sorry for you. You've already heard what you wanted from some of the men, and now it sounds like you're just trying to argue with everything anybody on here says.

Ok so here's the deal:
1. You can't force her or make her change. She has to want to. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's too bad. There's nothing anyone on here can say to change that--so you're basically banging your head up against the wall here. I'm not saying that you are wrong and that she is right-I'm just saying that people aren't gonna change just because you tell them to.

2. You say that some peope have told you to tell her to get fit or leave (or however you said). That's totally up to you if you want to do that; but if you're gonna do it, then do it and be done with it instead of coming on here and complaining.

3..If you choose to stay with her, then you just have to deal with it and stop pouting about it. Nobody is forcing you to stay with her. I don't think it's ok for her not to take care of herself, but if you are choosing to stay with her, then you have to deal with it. If you want to give her an ultimatum, then do that. But either way, you coming on here and whining and complaining about how awful your wife and pointing out to us that other posters saw it your way (so there!), isn't going to make things better.