[Mindy79]

My now ex-boyfriend was recently arrested just 10 months after serving a 7 year sentence for similar crimes. These are property crimes -- credit card fraud and identity theft. His parents have told me that he's been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder.

I've read about antisocial personality disorder and I have my doubts that he has this. He goes to work and is able to hold and even excel at his job, he cares for other people like no one I have ever been with, he is unselfish and extremely intelligent. He seems compulsive to me. He has more pens and sunglasses than anyone I have ever seen... he keeps every piece of paper... receipts, bills, letters.... everything. Also, he feels it's important that his crimes are "victimless". He justifies his crimes by believing that he is not hurting people... he's just hurting credit card companies. If he had aspd would he even bother with this justification? Is it possible he was misdiagnosed and that his stealing maybe be more of an addiction than him believing he is above the law?

I truly believe that no amount of prison time will make him stop stealing. I'm hoping the right diagnosis and therapy will help. I realize no matter what his diagnosis is, it will be a long road to recovery.

I don't know where to begin looking for help as he is currently incarcerated. Any advice or information would be appreciated.

Thanks very much.

Is it possible he was misdiagnosed?

Yes. Prison psychologists aren't the most thorough in their assessments, and the vast majority of habitual criminals get slapped with the ASPD label.

[Mindy79]

He writes me letters and insists he doesn't want to be the victimizer he is, but his search for treatment only began once he was caught. He claims shame and personal denial kept him from telling me or seeking help. I don't know where the truth begins or ends... if he is truly expressing regret or if he is manipulating me. Regardless, I still view him as a human being... one that I care about and I cannot just forget that he exists.

I'm sorry if I am babbling, but I can't find anyone to help. Everything I read tells me there is no hope and that I should, not walk, but run the other direction.

I have never liked it when people were locked into labels... I feel like hope and optimism are the most effective tools that some people need to heal. I don't want to be another person that has given up on him.

I'm really trying to keep an open mind and understand him. His crimes don't make sense to me and they shouldn't, but I know they make sense to him. I also realize that its not a piece of cake being him... he struggles every day with the thoughts he wakes with.

I haven't really posed a question... I guess this is just a little venting.

Thanks for the reply anyhow.

-Mindy

[SophiaG]

Hm, yes, If I were you, I wouldn't even bother trying to figure him out after I heard about the ASPD diagnosis. That might sound cruel, but it'd be for my own self-protection.

Originally Posted by SophiaG

Hm, yes, If I were you, I wouldn't even bother trying to figure him out after I heard about the ASPD diagnosis. That might sound cruel, but it'd be for my own self-protection.

Thank you. My self-esteem is now blossoming, and I have a new-found comfort in the knowledge that there are people who wish to support and care for me... all because of your heart-warming comment...

[Mindy79]

I cannot be so selfish... the ASPD diagnosis doesn't exactly frighten me. He is not a monster and he doesn't deserve to be locked up and forgotten.

I am trying to understand how his mind works and trying to not take anything he does/says personally. I know that I need to be objective in the situation... I'm trying to see things for what they are.

Myers... thanks for answering my questions!

[racee]

you can't help how you think, and it makes things much worse when when people around you you can't trust to say what's on your mind. no remorse or how i should say feeling like you did no wrong when i guess a situation should be wrong, trying to get someone to understand that is well it just doesn't happen.

psychiatrists therapists they all get confused, just because someone shows signs of no remorse or no wrong doing, that can't see how what they did was wrong in thier eyes and they would do it again isn't necessarly falling into a one category. could stem from what they saw growing up how their parents were. whats right and wrong those lines get blurry, and everyone has their own definition, some things are learned out of survival mode some thigns are just traits picked up here and there. we can't be molded to what society wants us to be, if you want to talk you can pm me but i'm not going to give examples of myself in this forum,
these people are just way to close minded and i do like a good debate and is pretty funny to see people get pissed off but maybe another day

it's nice to se you are actually taking time to try and understand another human being , diamond in the ruff

I know that I confined my illegal activity to victimless crimes because, in general, you get into a lot less trouble while being able to play out your compulsions in the event you get caught. He could be rationalizing his crimes because he doesn't want to lose his prestige in the eyes of those around him.
hat could also be a lot of the reason why he tries to maintain his close relationship with you. Just because he's ****ed up doesn't mean he doesn't want someone willing to look out for him & understand him. & choosing to excel at his job could imply that, aside from his disorder, he likes to challenge himself & NOT lose his job. In the recent economy, it would be plain stupid & not to one's advantage to decide to slack off & risk one's own wellbeing.
Stealing can be addicting, but determining whether it is due to ASPD or Kleptomania is to be judged by the types of things he steals. Do his stealing binges result in petty junk/things he doesn't utilize or does he manage to obtain things/money to spend on things of particular use to him?
Also, I do agree that he could be misdiagnosed. I have Narcissistic PD & Bipolar disorder & possibly Obsessive Compulsive PD, but I DO have many of the telling signs of ASPD. Prison psychologists just use labels & misdiagnosed so they can keep an eye out on people & have a reason to keep re-arresting convicts so they can keep the institutions full. Prison is a multi-billion dollar industry. Most are privatized.

[Polyakov]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

Hm, yes, If I were you, I wouldn't even bother trying to figure him out after I heard about the ASPD diagnosis. That might sound cruel, but it'd be for my own self-protection.

This seems to be rather common advice. I wonder if maybe there's a personal reason for your feeling this way? (Obviously not enough for me to actually research it.) Personally, and non-professionally, I think ASPD is such a generalized diagnosis that it is virtually impossible to show reliable trends.

[Rose76]

I have been coping with someone very close to me who runs afoul of the law on a regular basis. He, too, considers himself a person of honor and rationalizes every bit of trouble he gets into. Like you, I have wondered about his diagnosis. It used to be bipolar. Now they don't seem to know what to call him. I'm coming to see that he may just be a person who doesn't fit very well into any of the standard categories. He can be endearing at times. He long ago told me that "There is no moral order." That was his defense against a credit card scheme he was planning at the time. Now, many years later, his life just gets worse and worse. It sounds like your friend may be in the early stages of something that is going to get a lot worse. He has given himself permission to violate the rights of others, and he sees himself as just robbing from the Rich, like Robbin Hood. I think there are variations of ASPD where a person can seem to be good in some ways. Really, it doesn't necessarily matter what we call it. For now, you can just call it Mixed Personality Disorder. That's a category for the hard to fit.

You may disagree, but I'm afraid not everything that is wrong with a person is necessarily a psychiatric disorder. He has a character problem. Yes, that compulsiveness sounds like a psych problem. But psychiatric patients are no more or less immune to having character deficits than anyone else. His belief that it is okay to do what he does is going to keep getting him in trouble. All the treatment in the world never helped my family member. In fact, I think I did him a disservice by helping him rationalize, because I felt he mainly had psych issues.

[Oxidopamine]

It is quite possible he was misdiagnosed because once someone is evaluated in a prison setting, assessments typically do center around anti-social personality disorder and not others. Would he be able to rationalize his actions the way he does if he has ASPD? Yes. Remember, no single person, ASPD or not, is the same and the disorders progress from mild to severe. It can be said individuals with ASPD generally are not amoral, rather they are immoral in that they are well aware of "right and wrong" but through various rationalizations, they find the crime to be more acceptable. Typically APSD individuals are quite capable of harming people, so your ex-boyfriend may have a very mild ASPD in its early stages or he may be intentionally engaging in "victimless" crimes to avoid being caught because when victims are directly involved (i.e. injured or killed), they can provide information about the criminal.

The best way though to analyze whether he may have ASPD is to understand his childhood. Children with conduct disorder are more likely to develop ASPD, so if you know about his childhood, you may be right in that he is less likely to have ASPD. However, as mentioned, prison assessments typically assess for ASPD once the prisoner is booked. Prison psychologists are meant to function as any other psychologist in assessing for any mental disorder although they do have their specialties.