How are you all dealing with coronavirus and the restrictions... #2

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Originally Posted by rechu Sarah - basically it means that our normal constitutional rights do not exist because of extenuating circumstances. It allows the government to implement lockdowns, curfews, prohibitions on businesses' operations, etc. We were in the same state in 2019 due to the riots. The first one was lifted, but then the pandemic hit and they implemented it again.

I’m not trying to be a jerk. But do you understand constitutional rights? I’m not being condescending or patronizing I’m being completely serious. The reason is very often people conflate constitutional rights with being able to do whatever they want whenever they want no matter what the consequences or benefits are. Extenuating circumstances do not abolish our constitutional rights. Regarding lockdowns, masks etc. no constitutional rights were violated whatsoever by instituting these policies. It gets to me sometimes for example: I am not particularly fond of guns. I don’t want them band but there Hass to be more done regarding all of the gun violence. The same people who freak out about their rights being violated due to masks or capacity limits etc. are usually the same people who will freak out if you dare say anything about touching their guns or their gun rights. They also don’t understand the constitution very well or the Second amendment. Please don’t be offended I’m not talking about you. I’m talking in the general sense mostly about my experiences with real big assholes around here. If any of these people that claim such things were to actually sit down and read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and understand it they would realize that their Rights are being protected just fine. Another example that came to me today is The idea of private businesses being able to make whatever rules they want in their business, and refuse service to anyone if those rules however arbitrary are violated. Do you remember the court case regarding the lesbians who wanted a wedding cake baked for them by that one bakery? Well that bakery refused and after all the legal proceedings happened if I’m not mistaken the bakery won. People with certain political beliefs ranted and raved in the media and government the entire time the court case was moving through the system. All you heard was private businesses can make their own rules, private business owners should not be beholden to government authority. The idea was if you don’t like the rules don’t come here.
So that is OK, but a business that wants to have their own mask mandate is being prevented from doing so by various state governments and agencies across the country. I say what happened to the idea of private businesses being able to do what they want? Why is it fine to refuse something as simple and goofy as a cake based on constitutional right but a business who would like patrons to wear a mask is not allowed to to the point where state governments are actually signing laws that ban a business from requiring a mask. So apparently the idea of constitutional rights only applies if The car is behind it is deemed worthy. Sorry I get real fired up about this. And like I said this is not against you.

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Hey @rechu i’m sorry for getting so fired up. I wasn’t yelling at you, and I don’t think you are wrong. I just need the connection that you’re from South America correct? I’m sure things are very different there. Again I hope I didn’t offend you.

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Actually it is. I believe the death rate is in the low single digits or something. So that is by definition unlucky (or vulnerable). By definition that is unlucky people who get it. At some point we have to think about the greater cost to our society through all this crap. Look at the mental health strain this is putting people through.

I'm not dealing with it too well. I long for my old life but also know that will never be the same again.

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Originally Posted by rjdb Actually it is. I believe the death rate is in the low single digits or something. So that is by definition unlucky (or vulnerable). By definition that is unlucky people who get it. At some point we have to think about the greater cost to our society through all this crap. Look at the mental health strain this is putting people through.

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts



Fact check: It's misleading to say COVID-19 survival rate is 98%

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I understand you, Sarah. Basically to take these public health measures like lockdowns here, they had to decide suspend the constitution due to the public health risk. The government is not, in normal times, allowed to implement curfews or tell people they cannot have gatherings in their homes. I guess it is similar to the state of emergency that many countries have implemented.

Here the curfew is a touchy subject because when the country was under dictatorship in the 70s and 80s, the government implemented curfews and restricted people's right to meet. There were serious consequences for not complying.

In general, most people here seemed to be willing to follow the public health rules because they understand we are in a pandemic. Masks were never a big point of contention. Yeah, there were some secret concerts/parties in lockdown and an antimasker here and there, but those tended to be isolated. Our high rate of vaccination and declining case counts are why the government can't justify keeping the constitutional exception in place any more.

I don't blame you for being frustrated with the situation in the US. The governors of certain states seem to want to kill off their own constituents by prohibiting school districts and businesses from implementing public health policies.

Here the kids are back in in-person school for the most part. I have a few friends who are teachers. There are mask mandates at schools here and they say there haven't been many issues with compliance. We haven't had the outbreaks the schools like the US has.

I am originally from the US but have been living in Chile for almost 2 decades.

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Originally Posted by rjdb Actually it is. I believe the death rate is in the low single digits or something. So that is by definition unlucky (or vulnerable). By definition that is unlucky people who get it. At some point we have to think about the greater cost to our society through all this crap. Look at the mental health strain this is putting people through.

So many people have seen that social media Memes somewhere or some arbitrary fact on the Internet or TV. They don’t understand how the death rate is calculated. They don’t understand what it means. I don’t think you even understand what it means. 99% survival rate or 1% death rate means nothing until you look at it on a grand scale. Statistics and data do not lie. Insight that nonsense was created using data that didn’t actually represent anything true from the CDC.
There are so many variables used to calculate those death rates and survival rates. Most people look at it like simple math but it’s statistics it’s a whole different game.




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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjdb Actually it is. I believe the death rate is in the low single digits or something. So that is by definition unlucky (or vulnerable). By definition that is unlucky people who get it. At some point we have to think about the greater cost to our society through all this crap. Look at the mental health strain this is putting people through.

I don’t know if you read some information that I share about my brother who is an ICU nurse at all or not, but he is not vulnerable or unlucky but he got Covid and was very sick.

The 42-year-old mother who had to be told her 11-year-old son died probably didn’t think he was vulnerable or unlucky.
How anyone can use the word luck or lucky in regards to a deadly disease/virus is beyond me

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I know my chances of dying frok COVID-19 are quite slim but I'd also rather not get long covid, thanks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...date-deadline/

And here we go. All because people will not get vaccinated.

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I don't want long Covid either. It's so hard to weigh the risks. There's a conference it would be in my best interest to attend but it would involve a long flight to a destination that's sort of middling in terms of vaccination rates and pandemic response. The Covid policies at the conference do not seem strong enough, imo. They request people to wear masks if they are sick instead of asking them to stay home if they are sick. I could bring an n95 on the plane and avoid sharing meals, but that limits networking opportunities which is the whole point of going.

My friend who may or may not have had Covid is already asking when we can reschedule. I am not sure what to say. Having kids in school means he is more exposed to Covid than I think I am comfortable with. I'm also still annoyed he met up with me even though he had Covid symptoms.

I had a Covid test yesterday. It was negative. Even though I stayed at a hotel and did all kinds of shopping this month and then sat 2 feet away from an unasked lady last Thursday for an hour I was still ok. I will continue to wear my mask and wash my hands and stuff but I do not think I’m going to get Covid with all I’ve done and haven’t done and how careful I’ve been since March 2020. Plus I’m pretty sure I got it already really badly in January 2020.

I kinda seem to be out of you-know-whats to give. After the last concert, I booked another one. Still outdoors and with distance, but a 4 hour train ride away. Masks are still required on public transport though. I hope I won't have to sit directly next to a stranger, but I always hope that, even before corona

I've always been cautious, maybe too cautious, but I guess I've reached my limit. I NEED some sense of normalcy, something to look forward to and enjoy.

Hi everyone, hope you're doing okay.

I've been kind of distracted with an immediate physical health problem and then there's the whole fuel panic/energy crisis in the UK at the moment. Covid infection rates (official ones) are still 35,000 or so daily and deaths aren't that low at over 100 daily. Sad news it looks like one of my dad's very good friends is dying with Covid, he's old and pre existing conditions but still he would have had more time without this, that's 3 friends dad lost to this virus now.

Yet I'd say we're back to normal now, pretty much, I think people have mostly accepted the high rates of infection, and the fall in life expectancy. It's quite sad really. I read in Denmark their daily infections are now around 300 - they also have around 90% vaccinated- coincidence?

@Discombobulated - sorry to hear things are complicated for you right now. I have been following the situation there and was wondering how you were.


It is looking like the vaccinations are the reason, I agree. We have been pretty freed up for the last few months and it has been a long time since we have had more than 1,000 cases a day. I guess you guys have approximately 3X our population, so that would be equivalent to about 3,000 cases there. Our vaccination rates surpassed the UK a while ago and now they are quickly giving boosters of Pfizer/AstraZeneca to people who got Sinovac. We only have 361 people in ICUs today and 8 deaths. I am amazed at the turnaround. Is the antivax segment significant in the UK, like in the US? I am wondering.


If there were going to be a huge spike in cases due to Independence Day celebrations, we would be seeing it by now. Cases have been a bit higher, but nothing that significant.

I guess now the big test is coming. They did not renew the state of constitutional exception. That means the end of curfews today and no more lockdowns. Less intrusive measures like capacity restrictions can be implemented and some activities can be restricted to vaccinated people only.

The state of emergency has been lifted here. I don't think much of it. People here were out and about past the recommended hours. I do take precautions still by wearing a mask, not talking to people too closely, washing my hands with alcohol, etc. Most people wear masks here. But, people are out and about. The number of infected cases and deaths is dropping though. I am doing my thing by staying at home and working online. I still feel unsafe though since I am worried about the mutant cases. I will continue to take precautions until my company decides to allow us to work with others in person.

So pleased for you @rechu and Chile, it sounds like you're in a much better place, and I hope it will stay that way.

Our population is estimated around 66 million btw but nobody really knows for sure, we had a census in April but not everyone will have completed that. Even taking into account our relatively high population many countries, like Chile and Denmark are doing way more better than us.

There was a small but significant anti Vax movement here, compared to many other democratic stable countries. Maybe it's because we follow the US culturally (because of shared language) I'm not sure. We've also had continuously poor/mixed messaging from our government and I still feel they unlocked completely when cases were too high and vaccination not advanced enough. They also left it far too late to vaccinate 12-16 year olds as they were already back at school, that age group has high infection and whereas they're unlikely to get very sick they can still unwittingly spread the virus.

Good news is we are also giving boosters to vulnerable people, 6 months following their 2nd shot. My parents were done last weekend.

Sorry to hear that, Discombobulated. Hope things are going better now.

We're still getting the endless stream of doom here. Watch out, there will be another surge in fall! I doubt anyone is still listening by now. Cases seem to be rising every day still but I'm not really paying attention anymore. I only check the news every couple of days.

There is talk of more restrictions being lifted and in some other state even the mask requirements in offices being lifted if everyone present is either vaccinated, tested or recovered. I really don't feel like going to the office though, I hope we will be allowed to keep working from home. (Not covid related, I just really hate my job.)

A lot of it is luck, but yes it's still tragic. I read that the form of brain cancer than John McCain got, only 1 out of 100,000 people get it. It's unfortunate luck, but it doesn't make it tragic. My posts are not minimizing anyone's deaths.

I wanted to share this for those that have any doubts. my mother was twice married and twice divorced. So my brother is my half brother.
My stepfather is from Texas. And that is where my brothers grandfather lives. He wasn’t quite QAnon but he did not believe in a lot of general facts about Covid, Vaccines, or masks.
He owns a cattle farm. So of course he was taking ivermectin. On 9/11 he went to a classic car show crowded full of people.
About four days later he started to feel unwell. he started to feel like he had the flu or a bad cold so he went to a his doctor. He tested positive for Covid and do you know what his doctor prescribed for him? Hydrochloriquin.
He could barely get off the couch for nearly 2 weeks. His daughter, my brothers half sister, finally convinced him to go to the hospital because it sounded like he was having problems breathing. He went to the emergency room and they admitted him right away.
They had him hooked up to everything minus a ventilator.

His daughter talk to the nurse the next day and the nurse asked her if she wanted them to do everything they could to keep him alive or make him a do not resuscitate. She indicated she wanted them to do everything. so they told her if she wanted them to do everything he was being immediately intubated and put on a ventilator.

I can’t get into all the technical jargon because that is nurse stuff that I don’t understand but all sorts of levels were out of whack, bloodwork, kidney function, all the stuff. Thankfully my brothers sister has been putting my brother on the phone to talk to the doctors and nurses because he knows their language. needless to say it is not looking good. In fact a night or two ago they called them and said they didn’t think he would make it through the night. But he managed to.
His prognosis is not good. He basically could die at any moment and probably will.

Which is a shame because my brother's father is such a sh**.
. His father is such a jerk that he actually left a voicemail stating did that piece of sh**die yet?

He is a younger grandfather because he had his son when he was very young. And he takes care of 48 head of cattle so he’s very busy and active.
At one point my brothers' sister held the phone up to his grandpas ear even though he was knocked out so he could have some last words of peace.

My brother is a combination of sad and furious. Furious because his grandfather is one of the thousands that he has dealt with that do not believe the virus is real, do not believe in the treatments that work, and are busy using the Internet to diagnose themselves and treat themselves with horse paste.
And don’t even get me started on the hydrochloriquin. A medical professional prescribing a lupus drug that has not been proven to be helpful and even proven to be harmful to treat Covid is beyond me.

My brother is helping his sister understand what the nurses and doctors are saying. This hospital is so rinky-dink there’s only a doctor there part time and the nurses handle the brunt of it.
His oxygen keeps getting bumped up oh, and he had a heart attack while he was sedated. Probably due to the fact that he had the hydrochloriquin or just the general stress on his heart.

Think about it for a minute he was admitted to the hospital roughly a week after 9/11. And this past Friday he was put on a ventilator and intubated.
My brother and his sister made him DNR. Who knows what kind of quality of life he will have if he wakes up. But the longer you are on a ventilator the less likely you are to wake up and the less likely you are to not experience complications. Not to mention long-haul Covid which nobody wants.

The grandpa has been estranged from my brothers' father. Unfortunately my brothers father had such a drug problem that I really feel he has brain damage, bitter, angry and a little crazy.

They actually had a restraining order put on my stepfather because he kept threatening to come to the farm and “take what was his quote. In fact we are not even sure how he or the grandfathers' sister found out about him being sick unless the grandfather told him before he was severely ill. Because I think they’re looking at dollar signs. I told her to chain and padlock all of it.

The grandfather has mineral rights because it’s TX. So he gets royalties paid every month based on the oil drilled out of the ground and whatever else there is in the ground that’s considered minerals

My brother was under the impression that everything was left his sister, but his sister thinks everything was left to the both of them so who knows because it’s not the priority. It is a slow painful waiting period.
It is a slow painful death no matter how much morphine they are giving him. He can’t communicate if he hurts so they just have to make assumptions. Yet they don’t want to suppress his respiratory system. I’ll share all of this with you in case there are people out there who don’t believe in masks social distancing or vaccines. All it would’ve taken was a mask at the car show. He lives in a small town and spends so much time on his farm his likelihood of getting involved with people in close contact with minimal. But then he went to a car show which really should be considered a super spreader event.
And he was very healthy. Very active. You have to be if you’re rounding up cattle.
Make no bones about it he will die and soon. My brother is going to be devastated. Because out of that side of the family other than a sister the grandfather is the only one to talk to him because he’s gay and his father has issues with that among other things.
He didn’t believe in vaccines so he wasn’t vaccinated.
He didn’t really believe in Covid which is why he was taking ivermectin.
And if doctors are busy prescribing hydroxychloroquine out there it makes me question their medical degree. Study after study has shown its ineffective and possibly dangerous so please get vaccinated. Please wear masks even in places that don’t require them. I wear one anytime I’m in a store, Office, or anywhere really.
This ignorant man is going to die because he believed misinformation, the right wing media, and whoever he’s surrounded himself with. Because we all know peer pressure of any kind is hard to resist. People always think it’s just somebody on TV that has this happened to them. But this hit close to home. An otherwise healthy man an active man is dying of Covid right now. All because he went to a car show with no mask. I don’t know if it was indoors but I suspect it was outdoors.
I welcome your thoughts and your contributions to this thread.
On top of all of that my brother and other nurses are getting fed up and sick over people refusing all of these interventions and getting sick and dying.
My brothers aunt had to wait 18 hours to get a bed in ICU because they were full of Covid patients. How can an emergency room treat trauma patients if they’re busy pushing oxygen and ventilators? Feel free to share what you will.

So sorry to read your family's experience Sarah, I feel the anti vaxx movement do have blood on their hands as they have sought to influence others and have succeeded in some cases.

As my son says, we're all entitled to our opinions but we're not entitled to make our own (false) facts.

There's a lot being said about the role of social media in this.

I've been looking at rules to travel into the UK because there's a gig I'd like to go to next month and the rules just make absolutely no sense to me.

So apparently fully vaccinated people no longer need to take a test before departure but still need to book a test on day 2 after arrival. When staying less than 2 days, you don't actually have to TAKE the test (because you'll be out of the country again on day 2!) but you still need to book it and pay for it. WHAT?! What is the point in that??? I need to book and pay for a test I won't take? I'm hoping they losen up the rules a bit more in the coming weeks. At least by the end of november it won't have to be the expensive PCR test anymore.

Some of the rules are so silly. Like the concert I went to last week. The location actually had stricter rules than the state - state rules only required a mask in crowds, the location had a mask mandate except when seated at your table. So basically, we could stand in line for hours outside the location (still some distance apart so not exactly a crowd = no mask) but as soon as we entered the concert location (still outside), there was a mask mandate. WHAT. IS. THE. POINT?! There was actually MORE distance between people walking towards the concert area than in line before the concert.

And then near the end of the concert the artist asked us all to come a bit closer and we were all standing together in front of the stage and it finally felt like a real concert again! And still people kept a bit more distance than in pre-covid times. Best concert of the year, I had a great time!

Also - wearing an FFP2 mask for 4 hours straight on a train sucks. My face was all red and irritated after

@sarahsweets I'm so sorry your brother is going through all of that with his grandfather. It's scary to me that he may have caught it from a car show (which I'd assume was outdoors too).

@BreakForTheLight I'm glad you finally got to go to a 'real' concert! Yeah, the rules that don't make sense don't do us any favors. It just gives those who don't want to take any precautions argument fodder that persuades people on the edge.

Our case counts seem to be going back down. This Delta spike was worse in terms of numbers but much quicker than our last spike, similar to what happened in the UK and Chile earlier this year where numbers went way up and then started dropping suddenly (and somewhat inexplicably).

How can you tell when your risk tolerance is excessive? We are discussing holiday travel plans. My husband wants to visit a friend who works in a school and who lives in an area with 50% vaccination rates. I don't want to do it!

It's a new area of compromise and negotiation that's for sure. It also depends on your own risk level, if one of you is high risk then that's going to play into it. Also how much you really want to see this person.

Is it possible you could compromise by meeting the friend outdoors? Socially distancing? Would that help you feel more comfortable?