Recently, I have had some experiences where I really have gone down the tubes. Although my ability to function may be similar to where it was before, due to increased expectations I have now entered the world of non-functionality, labels, tests, psychologists, and medications. At this point I am unsure of how to proceed. The symptoms I have are mostly in the realm of poor executive functioning which I have always had: difficulties following instructions, planning, being highly disorganized, inattention during conversations resulting in muted reactions or even not hearing what someone said. Mainly my problems result from inattention/poor executive functioning. However, my shrink seems to be pushing for an autism diagnosis because I made a comment about an employer commenting on my "missing social cues" which were basically things like missing what was said, problems with directions, rarely having problems with explaining myself, being slightly disruptive, etc. I do not have any significant difficulties with things like reading faces, body language, recognizing people, understanding tone of voice, etc. She never came right out and said autism but made comments such as "what would you do if a person was crying, would you notice?" and stuff like that. These questions were not difficult for me and I wonder to some extent if I was misleading in my description of symptoms and she is barking up the wrong tree. I am entirely new to the process of psychology and diagnoses of a psychiatric nature so how do you navigate a situation like this? Maybe she isn't barking up the wrong tree, but do the things I described experiencing sound like autism? or does it sound more like what my mother (who has a degree in psychology) and myself (who has taken some classes in psychology) think sound like poor executive functioning probably stemming from inattentiveness and disorganization. Another key thing to note is that I have no routines or rituals and don't really even have a sense of basic order which is the problem. My apartment looks like an animal lives here most of the time and I have no specific pattern for doing things which has led me to have difficulties with functioning

[hvert]

I would share my feelings about the diagnosis with the shrink and ask for clarification re: why she thinks this is autism vs. poor executive functioning. I would ask how the treatment of your problem (the exec function/disorganization etc) would change based on diagnosing one vs the other. If her answers aren't satisfactory, I'd get a second opinion.

I am not suggesting this will be your experience and I have no diagnosis of any sort, but I found that as I grew older, I came to realize that I actually do have social issues. I didn't know what I was missing because I didn't know what was 'normal', if that makes sense. Like, if everyone in the office was getting together to eat lunch, I would still go out for my lunch time walk.

If it would be possible to ask the employer who made the missing social cues comment exactly what they meant, it could be interesting.

Originally Posted by hvert

I would share my feelings about the diagnosis with the shrink and ask for clarification re: why she thinks this is autism vs. poor executive functioning. I would ask how the treatment of your problem (the exec function/disorganization etc) would change based on diagnosing one vs the other. If her answers aren't satisfactory, I'd get a second opinion.

I am not suggesting this will be your experience and I have no diagnosis of any sort, but I found that as I grew older, I came to realize that I actually do have social issues. I didn't know what I was missing because I didn't know what was 'normal', if that makes sense. Like, if everyone in the office was getting together to eat lunch, I would still go out for my lunch time walk.

If it would be possible to ask the employer who made the missing social cues comment exactly what they meant, it could be interesting.

I did ask the employer and basically it was lacking self awareness and being oblivious to certain things in situations like once I inadvertently moved my chair inbetween the teacher and a student who she was talking to. A main issue is not sizing up situations before entering them and just kind of barging in. That's the "social cues" issue. I have no difficulty in reading faces or body language, at least none that I am aware of. I now think autism is probably likely in my case due to my obsessive interests. Socially I am alright and can read faces, body language, etc. However, I do sometimes do stuff kind of like you described like leaving a social function early if it is allowed but not the norm, etc. So, maybe she's right in a sense but the "what would you do if someone was crying?" was really irritating. I may have autism (which in my case has been both positive as well as negative), but I am not socially inept per se. Even as a kid, I was relatively social and never had difficulties with things like what she described about the crying. Any body language idiosyncrasies were minor enough that neither family or anyone else has really picked up on it

[hvert]

It's interesting. I think I'd like to read up more on these different kinds of social awareness. Like you, I can read faces/body language -- but there's definitely something I'm missing, like the importance of making sure my hair is brushed before I go out, or doing what other people are doing just because everyone else is doing it. If you've found any helpful materials on this stuff, I'd love to know about them!

Originally Posted by hvert

It's interesting. I think I'd like to read up more on these different kinds of social awareness. Like you, I can read faces/body language -- but there's definitely something I'm missing, like the importance of making sure my hair is brushed before I go out, or doing what other people are doing just because everyone else is doing it. If you've found any helpful materials on this stuff, I'd love to know about them!

I brush my hair and things like that. However, I sort of can relate to what your saying about not doing things just because everyone else is doing it. Like the leaving early for some stuff as an example. It might not always be really frowned upon and if it were I would probably not do it. However, it probably does stand out as a bit different at times, I don't know. It seems as though both of us have the basic social hardware for interaction such as reading faces/body language, tone, and things of that nature. However, for you, you are aware something is missing and for me I am not sure either way. How are you with the ability for non-literal interpretations? I am fine on that. Generally speaking anyways, nothing stands out as me being over-literal. I get analogies and such fairly readily. It seems as though we have the social hardware but just have some slightly different mannerisms than the "average" person whatever that means. In my case, I am starting to wonder if this is all from being wrapped up in my own head. Whenever I get made aware of something I can easily become aware of it.

[-jimi-]

You can have pretty good social skills and still have autism. I have Asperger's and I feel it does make me different but I still don't have the more extreme social issues other aspies might have. I have always had friends. I talk to people fine, I go with the flow. I don't miss really obvious signs like crying or laughing (doubt many would).

I more like organization and also diagnosed with ADD. I lack routines, it takes me forever to get something organized and I'm very messy.

I have some of the sensitivities common in autism but not many.

I do have or at least had strong focus on interests.

My social problems are that I'm quite gullible because I never remember people do and think things I'm not aware of, and that they might not have the same ethics I do, and that I simply cannot stand shallow people. People perceive me more on the quirky/impulsive side and less on the aspie side. I myself see me as an aspie though, although I can't really relate well with aspies without ADD. So I guess I'm sort of neither pure AS and neither pure ADD.

Sometimes people can see things we can't, too. Like they can maybe see deficits in interaction we can't see ourselves. It seems like you settled on the ADD side of things and maybe you are right. But also know it does not take a very severe social handicap to have AS, if it is in combination with other traits. Some people with AS have very poor social skills and better organization skills. So even within a diagnosis there can be different strengths and weaknesses.

Interesting. So, it seems that it's possible to have asperger's and also to have "pretty good social skills". So, then what are the traits/behaviors that identify someone as having it? I do have very strong interests (but I don't talk about them out of context or anything) and I do have a particularly strong gaze. The gaze isn't too over the top but I have a much "stronger" gaze than the average person and don't really move my eyes that much when talking to people. It doesn't really put people off but my parents and my therapist noticed it a little bit. It doesn't really look that weird or anything, but its a little different than most people.

[-jimi-]

You have to have some kind of social problems, but when people think of them they think about someone who can't carry a conversation or talks inappropriately or something in those terms. Many aspies have learned the rules of communication quite mechanically (sometimes not even knowing all people don't do it like that), so socializing can go fine but be draining. Some are quite good at reading social cues and facial expressions but it takes a lot of energy since they use a bottom-up rather than top-down process.

Also, some aspies have issues in that they are simply uninterested in others. Which might just come across as being a loner.

Just to toss in some confusion, it does seem like aspies with ADD have better social skills than aspies without. It sounds very counterintuitive, but it might be that those with ADD are more spontaneous and impulsive which might make up for the lack of flow in communication common in Asperger's, or that those with ADD have more practice with social skills simply because they are more impulsive talkers, run into more misunderstandings and just get more practice.

Originally Posted by jimi...

You have to have some kind of social problems, but when people think of them they think about someone who can't carry a conversation or talks inappropriately or something in those terms. Many aspies have learned the rules of communication quite mechanically (sometimes not even knowing all people don't do it like that), so socializing can go fine but be draining. Some are quite good at reading social cues and facial expressions but it takes a lot of energy since they use a bottom-up rather than top-down process.

Also, some aspies have issues in that they are simply uninterested in others. Which might just come across as being a loner.

Just to toss in some confusion, it does seem like aspies with ADD have better social skills than aspies without. It sounds very counterintuitive, but it might be that those with ADD are more spontaneous and impulsive which might make up for the lack of flow in communication common in Asperger's, or that those with ADD have more practice with social skills simply because they are more impulsive talkers, run into more misunderstandings and just get more practice.

Interesting, it sounds like maybe the fact that I clearly have the ADHD traits and full picture could to some extent cover up the AS which explains my lower scores on tests for AS than I would have expected. Due to my ADHD, I have probably had so many social interactions (a.k.a. chatting it up with people and having long conversations with whoever I can and being seen as "highly sociable") probably caused me to eventually just intuitively understand how to interact. It was probably not ever with me hardwired from birth, but by doing it so much I have been able to behave "appropriately" and have largely come to understand socialization. That does actually make sense what you said because people with ADHD tend to be highly social (e.g. getting into random conversations with random people at school/wherever it's somewhat appropriate) so it makes sense that all this interaction would probably give anyone, even someone with AS a leg up socially