[BNLsMOM]

I have been trying to discuss infinity with my husband, but I think I hurt his brain.

I was trying to read some stuff on line, but I am not a physicist or mathematician, but what I got from what I read is that there can be multiple infinities.

How is that possible because that implies that there are boundaries involved? One example is a black hole. If there is a black hole on one side of the universe, and one on the other side of the universe, is that an example of two infinities, or just one that hasn't come fully together yet? Is that why it is so hard to define and theorize about?

So if one black hole sucked up the other black hole and everything between, would everything cease to exist, or would everything exist in infinity. What happens to time in that case? Does it stop, or speed up...? Would it be commonplace to see immortality?

So anyhow, my mind is blown.

I so wish I aid closer attention to math and science in school...

Who wants to have a safe hypomanic conversation here on this thread?

[perpetuallysad]

I think about the SAME THINGS!! Doesn't just sort of make your brain feel melty or something? I have to figure it out though. I watch shows about space all the time and grill my scientist husband constantly about all of this stuff. I have read a little bit of stuff Stephen Hawking (no idea if I spelled that right) has written and it's just so amazing and unbelievable. There's a really cool show out right now on one of the sciency channels that Morgan Freeman narrates about space and infinity and all that.

My problem is when I think of things, I generally think of them in a circle. Like if I think over the past year, it's all this circle in my head, with whatever time of the year it is at the front and whatever is six months past at the back... um, like a flat circle sort of like a plate sitting on the table. Anyway, I think of everything in circular ways, but space is like a line that expands FOREVER. I just cannot grasp that forever and on thing. My mind always comes up with an ending and I have to remind myself that there is no end.

So, I've read stuff about black holes and I think that they can converge. BUT we've no proof that things exist in any form after they enter a black hole, so I don't know what would happen if everything was sucked into a black hole. How do we know we aren't in the midst of a black hole right now?

I saw the greatest explanation of space distance the other day. The dude reached down to the ground a picked up a piece of sand and said "this is our solar system" and those mountains over there (they were way far off, just a faint glimmer on the horizon) are the edge of our galaxy-the Milky Way... and there are billions upon billions of galaxies.

I mean, holy crap, can you wrap your brain around that?

Um, sorry, I am a little weird, as I have pointed out a bunch, sorry to just go nuts, I will try to shut up now.

[Moreta]

I find myself contemplating these theories, but then it becomes more of an obsession, and suddenly I'm ranting about NASA, and being stuck on this planet. WHY ARE WE NOT AT MARS YET??

I calm myself down by watching the science channel or national geographic or the history channel. I went to Cancun on my honeymoon, and ended up watching history international in Spanish, b/c I needed to calm down.

Did you hear the other day that there's evidence that there might be a second universe??? We can't even get out of our own galaxy!

The worst thoughts are those where you start to comprehend how tiny all of us really are, as compared to the Universe, which is always expanding.

It blows my mind. I try not to think about it, but I still do, everyday.

[Lauru]

I think about that stuff too! It makes my head go round. It all started when I was five. I thought if I could just look back quick enough I would see the world wink back into existence since I figured out that the world might just cease to exist when there is no one looking at it. Weird I know, and I have no idea where that idea came from, but it popped into my little mind and from then on, I continued to think about weird things and even scare myself silly sometimes

[thinker22]

What about M-Theory (which used to be called String Theory) where there are an infinite number of universes? This was a key point in my ginormous novel. If there are multiple universes and each one is created when a different choice was made that altered the course of history, then there would be millions or billions of versions of us in each, some where we have already died, some where we are older, some younger, some where we never existed at all because of a break in the family tree. Every time I make it safe after a car or plane trip home, I wonder if in one of the universes I didn't survive and my family is grieving. It's a weird thought to wrap your head around. I posited in the novel that if such universes exist, we would always be alive in at least one universe and so never die. Because perhaps on that one they have figured out how to cheat death with technologies we are only beginning to explore on this particular planet in this universe. Fun stuff.

Sometimes. Like Lauru, I can clearly remember doing this at a young age. I'd sit on an Adirondack style bench (yeah, it's that clear, and was painted white btw, and positioned diagnonally from the garage ), just look up and the stars and blow my mind. I don't necessarily do much reading on these things as technical reading can be very difficult for me. It's more one thought going to another to another to another till it kind of wigs me out. Not infinity, space and physics related, but obsessive pondering trying to figure out if people see colors the same. Not colorblindness, but that what I see as red, is that the same as other people see it? I can't literally look through their eyes and the color interpretation in with their brain, so...??? I was really obsessed with that as a kid. Then again, I'm color-obsessed anyway (frightening adeptness at color memory -- like I can match a shade over space and time, obviously in absence of the original. Color nuance... those sorts of things. In fact, if anyone else enjoys such things, http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 is fun.
Ok, may have veered off there! (How was that again about one thought leading to another to another to another? Now *there's* infinity! )

[thinker22]

Hey Innerzone. I used to think about if my red was your red, etc. and get kind of excited about it as a kid too. That we can't sense the world exactly as others do. I went to your link and was amazed at how difficult the paint chips became to distinguish in the middle sections. I scored an 11, which I guess is good, but someone else in my age range has scored a 0. Someone else scored a 1520, yikes. Fun exercise, a little taxing, but worth it to see that I have difficulty in the teal to blue color range. Funny, since those are some of my favorite colors.

[BNLsMOM]

Originally Posted by thinker22

Hey Innerzone. I used to think about if my red was your red, etc. and get kind of excited about it as a kid too. That we can't sense the world exactly as others do. I went to your link and was amazed at how difficult the paint chips became to distinguish in the middle sections. I scored an 11, which I guess is good, but someone else in my age range has scored a 0. Someone else scored a 1520, yikes. Fun exercise, a little taxing, but worth it to see that I have difficulty in the teal to blue color range. Funny, since those are some of my favorite colors.

I also scored 11.

I used to wonder if people saw letters and numbers in their minds as certain colors, and if it was the same as how I saw them.

[knossos13]

I imagine that the multiple infinities in the physicists' sense intersect and have vertices. It'd be something like saying that 'the infinite set of even integers exists within the infinite set of real numbers,' and also in this case (infinity a) < (infinity b).

Seeing letters/numbers in the mind as different colors is actually a really interesting phenomenon - it's called "synesthesia," and we all do it to some degree. There was a book written in the early 20th century by a Russian psychologist A.R. Luria who made a cooperative study with a man who was widely regarded for his perfect memory / calculation abilities / and absolute pitch who was profoundly synesthetic - saw sounds as colors, would often describe the voice of an interlocutor as say a "crumbly yellow." It's called "Mind of a Mnemonist," and it's probably available for free online these days. http://sites.google.com/site/russianpsychologia/

Originally Posted by thinker22

Hey Innerzone. I used to think about if my red was your red, etc. and get kind of excited about it as a kid too. That we can't sense the world exactly as others do. I went to your link and was amazed at how difficult the paint chips became to distinguish in the middle sections. I scored an 11, which I guess is good, but someone else in my age range has scored a 0. Someone else scored a 1520, yikes. Fun exercise, a little taxing, but worth it to see that I have difficulty in the teal to blue color range. Funny, since those are some of my favorite colors.

Originally Posted by BNLsMOM

I also scored 11. I used to wonder if people saw letters and numbers in their minds as certain colors, and if it was the same as how I saw them.

Hehe, not to brag (ok, maybe a little ) ,but I got a perfect score on it, which given my proclivities didn't surprise at all. Maybe a weird amusement but I think it is totally fun (go on a roller coaster? No thanks, I'll arrange color strips! LOL). But then again, I can stand staring at paint sample strips at the paint store for quite some time ("Can I help you?" "No, I'm fine." ) so....

Yes! BNLsMOM on the color association thing (synesthesia, as knossos points out). I tend to have it most with scents. Then music. Sometimes, not always. "The same as how I saw them" -- EXACTLY, BNLsMOM!

I hope this isn't a hijack (but just say if you think it is!). There's something about those things we obsess on... perceptions of things, how we try to wrap our heads around these concepts, whether they are in our minds or official theories. How the line of reality seems blurred when one really thinks on them. How to conceive of infinity. How we perceive reality.
Hehe. Not sure where to go from there without going off.

[perpetuallysad]

Oh my god! The color thing, I have ALWAYS wondered that!!! Oh you guys help make me feel so much less weird and alone. I love you all.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Color nuance... those sorts of things. In fact, if anyone else enjoys such things, http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 is fun.

Not to brag or anything, No wait that's a lie, I'm in hypo mode, so me likes to brag....

I SCORED A 6

[Moreta]

Heh. I scored a 42. Apparently I can't differentiate different Teal/Green hues.

I should retake it when my vision is less blurry.

[StarryNight]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

I'm color-obsessed anyway (frightening adeptness at color memory -- like I can match a shade over space and time, obviously in absence of the original. Color nuance... those sorts of things. In fact, if anyone else enjoys such things, http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 is fun.

Thanks for the link; that was fun! I scored an 8.

[Lauru]

OK, I suck. I scored a 63!!!

that color test is fascinating. i also got a perfect score, but hey i'm a designer. i also love color...but i don't stare at paint chips.

perpetuallysad, does it help to think of time being infinite like a spiral--kind of like a neverending slinky--rather than a flat circle? i wish i'd taken more science. i learned how to skin a cat in physiology but i know squat about physics. it does seem rather intriguing though.

[BNLsMOM]

The trouble I am having is that any way to visualize infinity introduces borders to the concept. The very word comes from the greek for unbounded.

It is fun stuff to think about. I too wish I knew more about psysics so that I could really study this.

[pachyderm]

From the purely mathematical point of view, here are several infinities:

All the integers from 1 (or 0) on up to... well, to infinity.

All the fractional numbers between 0 and 1.

All the fractional numbers between 0 and the highest integer (of which there isn't one).

Originally Posted by BNLsMOM

I so wish I aid closer attention to math and science in school...

I would say this, but it's not really true! There are parts I like and parts that are... "whatever". I do like watching House and understanding as much as I can and try to figure things out before they happen, but I've never had any medical training, just a strong memory for the bits I've picked up from reading. Also like things relating to mental issues and psych, long before I even knew it was personal!
Hehe, and related to your original post, and remembering those nights on the bench, I signed up for astronomy in college. What a disaster! I was soooo very confused, I had to drop it.

Originally Posted by Lauru

OK, I suck. I scored a 63!!!

No worries! There are things I can't do at all, and confuse the heck out of me. See astronomy above. Also, accounting, physics, things with motors, and calculus (which I couldn't even remember the name of just now and had to look it up!) among many others.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Lauru

I figured out that the world might just cease to exist when there is no one looking at it.

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one to observe it, does it make a sound?

[shadow11]

i always think time and space as not being linear. no beginning, no end. sort of like a sphere. different points coexisting all at the same time. separate yet with the ability to share certain properties. i think this explains the idea of time travel. although we exist in one universe its possible to experience parallel universes by varying our perception of different frequencies which which take place in the same time-space fabric. Stephen Hawking doesnt believe in time travel because he believes time is linear. guess you can tell i think about this stuff a lot.

[thinker22]

I thought time was relative and if we could travel at the speed of light or faster, we wouldn't age. Also if it takes billions of years for light from another galaxy or quasar to reach us, we are seeing what that star looked like billions of years ago, but it may have already supernova-ed and died, becoming dark matter. The light from our sun reaching other galaxies is the same. They are seeing our solar system's star as it was billions of years ago, before there was even life to speak of on earth. I'm not sure how that fits into all of this, but I think it makes time more elastic and conceptual than linear. So I agree with you Shadow.

Yeah! It *is* a freaky thought to realize that some stars we see no longer exist. I have a hard time wrapping my head around one so straightforward as that(!)

[BNLsMOM]

Aww, you guys are so awesome. You all think the way I do. It makes me feel less crazy that I spend my time thiking about this stuff.

[shadow11]

if time travel depended on going as fast or faster than the speed of light then wouldnt it be possible if our minds think and react to things that happen faster than that? sometimes reflexes occur before we're even aware of whatever evoked the response. so is the speed of thought faster than the speed of light and if so wouldn't it make time travel possible for a well disciplined mind?