[SoupDragon]

I have been struggling with symptoms for ages and have just this morning read a book called Why Am I Still Depressed (Jim Phelps) - It is like the book has been written about me - I can related to so much re: hypomania. I am now feeling a bit wobbly, stunned, but also a bit reassured, relieved that I may be able to at last understand myself a little more. Not sure where to go from here, who to tell, what to do, doctor vs my T - maybe I just need to sleep on it and see how I feel tmorrow.

[crazyman28]

SoupDragon,

I have been doing the same thing but have never actually been diagnosed with any condition except depression. I have been doing some reading and have learned about myself. Educating yourself about a mental illness can help you better cope and recover. I hope you can fnd a doctor that can confirm your diagnosis and begin the appropriate drug regiment. You are on the right track, keep up the good work.

Good luck,

Crazyman28

[sugahorse1]

Have you discussed your findings, learnings and assumptions with your T. She may be able to help you understand. And if she thinks it necessary, may know of a good doctor you can see for a possible diagnosis.
I always find my T to be a lot easier to talk to than my pdoc

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

Have you discussed your findings, learnings and assumptions with your T. She may be able to help you understand. And if she thinks it necessary, may know of a good doctor you can see for a possible diagnosis.
I always find my T to be a lot easier to talk to than my pdoc

Hi yes - I have made my T aware if it. My T's view is that it isn't always helpful to have a label but if it is important to me, then we can both look at it together and come up with a label that seems to fit. I have been doing loads more reading since then and found a website that suggets some professionals believe that there is actually no difference between BP II and borderline personality disorder and even if there was the therapy to treat either would not differ - so I can see how a label is not essential. The only benefit seesm to be in terms of medication as anti dpressants not indicated for BP II.

[sugahorse1]

It's great to have a T you can talk to. It may be worth seeing a pdoc, purely to help treat the symptoms you are experiencing, and not work tightly within a label.
All the best

[Direction]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

so I can see how a label is not essential. The only benefit seesm to be in terms of medication as anti dpressants not indicated for BP II.

Sometimes labeling can help take the mystery out of it. Finding a book that you connect with is for me reassuring...accepting. This can take some of the power away from the disorder. I think sometimes when labeling we do the opposite and give it more power than it deserves. So if you can avoid giving the label more power...and actually take away its power...label away

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I have been struggling with symptoms for ages and have just this morning read a book called Why Am I Still Depressed (Jim Phelps) - It is like the book has been written about me - I can related to so much re: hypomania. I am now feeling a bit wobbly, stunned, but also a bit reassured, relieved that I may be able to at last understand myself a little more. Not sure where to go from here, who to tell, what to do, doctor vs my T - maybe I just need to sleep on it and see how I feel tmorrow...

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling wobbly and stunned, yet able to understand yourself better through reading this book. And especially that you (as your later post says) have spoken with your T about it.
I have read this book (in fact, own it). While I appreciate the research of S. Nassir Ghaemi, which he often refers to, I personally think Phelps goes too far with the theory. In taking examples to such minute symptoms, it almost brings it to the point of saying that virtually everyone has BP, which is very frustrating. It brings to mind one of the very few people I have confided in, whose response was "hell, everyone's BP!" Um, no. Because if that were true, very serious (and well established) statistics would not so extremely disproportionate to the general population. (And since the general population includes the non-dx'd, that is a non-point, and in fact shows the other all the more strongly.)

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

... I have been doing loads more reading since then and found a website that suggets some professionals believe that there is actually no difference between BP II and borderline personality disorder and even if there was the therapy to treat either would not differ - so I can see how a label is not essential. The only benefit seesm to be in terms of medication as anti dpressants not indicated for BP II.

I agree that it is the treatment, not the label, that matters most. Sometimes, ADs are helpful (in conjunction - very important point) - with mood stabilizers for some people with BP.) IIRC, that is Phelps contention, which of course is his perogative to believe.

Ok, now here's the biggie, and I'm sorry, but I just can't not say it, because it is a huge sore point with me. I hope you are not offended, because that's not at all the intent. I'm glad you are reading and learning so much. That is very important.

Here's the thing. It infuriates me that some professionals would say there is no difference between BP and BPD! Granted, there is some overlap of symptoms. Granted, there are people who are dx'd with both. BUT, there is a very big difference between the two. BP is brain chemisty based. BPD is a one's way of dealing with the world on a regular basis. It is a coping mechanism (not a good one, and a frustratingly stubborn one, but a coping mechanism nonetheless). It is not caused by brain chemistry. That is a very big difference! And one that is incomprehensible to me that they choose to ignore!

That said, be assured that it is not a commonly held professional view. Science simply doesn't hold it up.

(On a personal note, I have BP. I can not relate at all to symptoms of BPD that are unique to and majorly diagnostic of BPD.)

Hope that didn't come off harshly. It's not at all directed to you, but to any professional that would promugate such a thing. BP's enough for us to learn more about as it is(!) You know? Again, so glad you are trying to learn all that you can about BP. Hope you are finding the forums here helpful! Keep us posted ok? We're all here to give and receive support, regardless of dx!

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling wobbly and stunned, yet able to understand yourself better through reading this book. And especially that you (as your later post says) have spoken with your T about it.
I have read this book (in fact, own it). While I appreciate the research of S. Nassir Ghaemi, which he often refers to, I personally think Phelps goes too far with the theory. In taking examples to such minute symptoms, it almost brings it to the point of saying that virtually everyone has BP, which is very frustrating. It brings to mind one of the very few people I have confided in, whose response was "hell, everyone's BP!" Um, no. Because if that were true, very serious (and well established) statistics would not so extremely disproportionate to the general population. (And since the general population includes the non-dx'd, that is a non-point, and in fact shows the other all the more strongly.)

I agree that it is the treatment, not the label, that matters most. Sometimes, ADs are helpful (in conjunction - very important point) - with mood stabilizers for some people with BP.) IIRC, that is Phelps contention, which of course is his perogative to believe.

Ok, now here's the biggie, and I'm sorry, but I just can't not say it, because it is a huge sore point with me. I hope you are not offended, because that's not at all the intent. I'm glad you are reading and learning so much. That is very important.

Here's the thing. It infuriates me that some professionals would say there is no difference between BP and BPD! Granted, there is some overlap of symptoms. Granted, there are people who are dx'd with both. BUT, there is a very big difference between the two. BP is brain chemisty based. BPD is a one's way of dealing with the world on a regular basis. It is a coping mechanism (not a good one, and a frustratingly stubborn one, but a coping mechanism nonetheless). It is not caused by brain chemistry. That is a very big difference! And one that is incomprehensible to me that they choose to ignore!

That said, be assured that it is not a commonly held professional view. Science simply doesn't hold it up.

(On a personal note, I have BP. I can not relate at all to symptoms of BPD that are unique to and majorly diagnostic of BPD.)

Hope that didn't come off harshly. It's not at all directed to you, but to any professional that would promugate such a thing. BP's enough for us to learn more about as it is(!) You know? Again, so glad you are trying to learn all that you can about BP. Hope you are finding the forums here helpful! Keep us posted ok? We're all here to give and receive support, regardless of dx!

Thanks for this and I am not in the least bit offended. I am really just trying to understand myself better. I feel so "disabled" in so many ways at the moment and want to be able to move forward and lead a more meaningful life and so have a very open mind about all of this. At the moment I am struggling on without may medication, but am starting to tire and am contemplating talking to a pdoc, so this does make the right label significant doesn't it? However I am reluctant to go down that path while there does seem to be disagreement around these two conditions so want to be as informed as possible.

So I am really very grateful for you sharing your view and experiences.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

...At the moment I am struggling on without may medication, but am starting to tire and am contemplating talking to a pdoc, so this does make the right label significant doesn't it? However I am reluctant to go down that path while there does seem to be disagreement around these two conditions so want to be as informed as possible...

Talking to a Pdoc is a good idea, imo, for a few reasons. Firstly, you find yourself struggling -- that in itself is a good indication that it is worthwhile. Actually, it doesn't make labelling it necessary.

A few reasons/thoughts on this... one, it's not a good idea to self-diagnose (which is related to why we here on the forums cannot diagnose). There are simply more factors than we may be aware of. While reading can definitely strike a chord, it's not conclusive. This brings to mind... there is a phenomenon that is common in people taking a psych course in college, wherein one starts to worry that they have "everything", because they recognize symptoms in themselves, not realizing that to some degree, many (most, even) symptoms occur in perfectly "normal" people**. Diagnosis is determining the matter of degree symptoms may or may not interfere with functioning. Even then there is variation in severity to consider. It's a complicated business and rather inexact. Soooo, even for professionals, it takes awhile to sort through. They most often will not diagnose right away. This is a good thing. Even being well-versed in a subject, it takes awhile to sift through. Even with that, diagnoses sometimes change (see above... rather inexact). Sometimes things are pretty clear cut, sometimes not. That's ok. It brings us back around to the label being less important than treatment that works.

**(Just want to be totally clear that I'm not saying that's happening(!) It's just an interesting phenomenon.)

Being informed is a great thing (I make a point of it too! ), but in terms of diagnosing.... not hugely useful and all too tempting to self-dx.) It can provide things to discuss that concern you though, and help in being a partner in managing any dx you might have.

Don't be reluctant based on the fact that disagreement exists. Virtually nothing is without it after all! (And psych stuff? Oh yeah. Overlapping symptoms, degrees of severity, among many other factors... pretty much unavoidable! ) That doesn't keep things from working though! What helps is what's important, not whether everyone agrees.

(Hehe, speaking of reading up....Interesting timing... last week, my psych gave me a book to read, based on some (non BP) "stuff" we'd been discussing. It was an interesting read, and I made a number of notes (referencing page numbers as well), on points central to the concept, and how they don't fit at all. It should be an interesting conversation! She never even suggested that might be what was going on, she was throwing it out there to see how it might or might not intersect my experience of these symptoms. She's big on the partnership thing, and figuring things out together. )