[AniManiac]

T suggested today that I might be feeling down because I had a couple drinks over the weekend.

More accurately, I actually got drunk on Saturday night. Not excessive, but definitely intoxicated. No hangover. Mildly down on Sunday. One glass of wine on Sunday. Crying on and off all day on Monday.

I know alcohol can interfere with meds, so I wasn't surprised to feel a little bit down on Sunday. But today's mood seems completely out of line.

I'm trying to figure out if today's low mood is related to: a) having a couple drinks a couple days ago, b) it's time for another med adjustment (pdoc appt tomorrow), or c) who knows and why am I even trying to figure this out?!?

My alcohol consumption has been quite moderate lately, but if a mood like today is the price I pay for a few drinks, I'm going to have to give it up pretty much entirely. Which is depressing in itself.

Any insights?

[venusss]

Not sure if this helps... as I am not on meds.

I have to be sorta careful with drinking, because if I drink too much at times I get depressed afterwards. But other times are I am perfectly okay (hardly ever have hang overs), just bit tired. So maybe it depends on cycle or what other things you consume? (I don't mean drugs, but possibly food/caffeine, whatnot). With one friend we'd always take b-complex before drinking (he claimed it reduces hangovers. Heard it from other sources). I know that for me alcohol/valerian and some other herbs are bad combo. No problems whatsover moodwise with the demonized alcohol/energy drinks combo (not saying my heart and liver is loving it though).

so yeah.... that is all i have.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Not sure if this helps... as I am not on meds.

I have to be sorta careful with drinking, because if I drink too much at times I get depressed afterwards. But other times are I am perfectly okay (hardly ever have hang overs), just bit tired. So maybe it depends on cycle or what other things you consume? (I don't mean drugs, but possibly food/caffeine, whatnot). With one friend we'd always take b-complex before drinking (he claimed it reduces hangovers. Heard it from other sources). I know that for me alcohol/valerian and some other herbs are bad combo. No problems whatsover moodwise with the demonized alcohol/energy drinks combo (not saying my heart and liver is loving it though).

so yeah.... that is all i have.

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how long/how bad the effects of alcohol actually are at this point. It's a lot worse than I recall in the past (before bp dx and new meds) but that's hardly surprising. I've been taking b-complex vitamins recently too, but can't honestly tell if anything I'm doing other than meds (which do seem to be helping some/times) is making any difference at all.

[Sheba976]

DO NOT DRINK! It messes with your meds and moods. It's not worth it! It sends me over the edge since I've been diagnosed with bipolar. I either go into a horrible depression or an over the top irritable/violent episode. (I am never like that)

[Rosie23]

I like to have a couple of beers myself, but I thought I would lay off it for a bit to see how these meds work for me. It seems to me that the depressed mood that alcohol causes does stay around a little longer than a day.

Do you keep a mood chart, and if so, is there a place to track consumption? Mine does, and damn if there isn't some correlation, mapped out right in front of me. I found a few of things (for me) about drinking...

* It's unpredictable which way I'll go. The substantial majority of the time, I get very fun to be around, lol, but sometimes I go really morose. REALLY morose. (No meanness or anything, but the morose route is gawdawful.) This is both before and after I started taking meds. (Downright bipolar, eh? )
* I seem to feel the effects of the alcohol more strongly/quickly since meds. In general.
* More than a few will produce a major "mud-brain" for me the following day. I don't remember this happening before meds (at least to the same degree). It's not "hungover", I'm just in a total fog and can't put a thought together to save my life!
* I sometimes take a bit of alprazolam for sleep. And sometimes forget not to do this if I've been drinking (very bad I know!). But I mention it because it seems to really up the chance of having a hangover, even with quanities that would not normally give me one. (Haha, once I made the connection, I was better at remembering not to, that's for sure! Because I loathe loathe loathe them, and have always made a point to not "go there.")
* When my meds are keeping me on a particularly good keel, I'm less inclined to drink at all. While I do aim for only occasional (because it's gotten a bit too reflexive for me at some points in the past, and that is really not good, esp. w/ meds!), I really don't see not doing it at all. That's just me.
* The correlation on my mood chart is not necessarily the very next day.

Seems worth putting it on a mood chart. That would probably really help you get a much better feel for the answers to your questions. Because everyone's different. (But I hope my experiences are of some help, because that last one was especially familiar. Tell ya the truth, it'd be my guess that Saturday was the one most instrumental in Monday's state.)

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Do you keep a mood chart, and if so, is there a place to track consumption? Mine does, and damn if there isn't some correlation, mapped out right in front of me.

Yep, do have the data. A little while back I ran some correlations and found that with a one-day lag, drinking definitely had a stronger negative impact on mood than I had expected. I didn't run it with a 2-day lag, though.

It just doesn't quite give me a way to figure out what the consequences will be from having one drink versus four, or anything like that. So it's really only useful in the all-or-nothing way, and that's sorta what I'm hoping to wiggle around. I don't mind not drinking most of the time, but I'd like to have a glass once in awhile.

And of course I know I shouldn't drink at all. But I respond a lot better to data and logic than to blanket injunctions. At least I'm trying to make an informed decision, right?

Yes, I'm being stubborn. It's hard to give up something I've enjoyed when "everyone else" gets to have their fun.

Originally Posted by Innerzone

* When my meds are keeping me on a particularly good keel, I'm less inclined to drink at all. While I do aim for only occasional (because it's gotten a bit too reflexive for me at some points in the past, and that is really not good, esp. w/ meds!), I really don't see not doing it at all. That's just me.
* The correlation on my mood chart is not necessarily the very next day.

I'm not particularly sorted on meds yet, but when things are good on that count, I do drink less. (And when I'm hypomanic, I drink like a fish in the desert.) I know what you mean about reflexive behavior, though...

The not-next-day correlation was what I was really trying to figure out. I can find a couple of spots on my mood chart where a good night of drinking was followed by a miserable day a couple days later. It's just not consistent enough that I'd pick that pattern out by myself.

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Seems worth putting it on a mood chart. That would probably really help you get a much better feel for the answers to your questions. Because everyone's different. (But I hope my experiences are of some help, because that last one was especially familiar. Tell ya the truth, it'd be my guess that Saturday was the one most instrumental in Monday's state.)

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Yet another thing adding insult to injury, but whatever. It's just kind of bewildering to rediscover how your body works all over again, and finding that it's not working the way you had come to believe is quite a disappointment.

I know it's stupid to put so much stock in being able to do "normal" stuff like have a drink once in awhile. At this point it's more about being able to do it, rather than the actual drinking, so it's probably more of an acceptance issue.

[AniManiac]

And for the record, I really have cut back considerably on drinking... These monthly totals actually speak volumes. July was particularly rough.

July - 147
August - 59
September - 50
October - 46
November - 7
December - 15

I like the idea of charting things as I'm pragmatic, so this is good for me to see...are those the # of drinks you drank in those months?

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by gulas

I like the idea of charting things as I'm pragmatic, so this is good for me to see...are those the # of drinks you drank in those months?

Yes, it is.

I'm very practical, data-driven, logical, etc. Goes hand-in-hand with being a scientist, I guess.

Thanks for the info. FYI, I am BP2, currently without meds, though I do take a multi, fish oil, gingko biloba and St. John's Wort. My drinking always began with a few glasses of euphoria and thereafter plummeted rather precipitously to oblivion, simply an exercise in getting blotto, in an attempt to regain that initial blissful state. The day after was always a wash. And typically the misery carried through into the third day. If I was lucky I could begin to accomplish things by Day 4. You are obviously in the driver's seat. I was not and typically I would be missing that crust of happiness and go back for more. You can well imagine the downward spiral from there. Chasing one's tail. You seem very vigilant but drinking can be a slippery slope so please continue to watch yourself. When you find yourself craving a drink I think that may be a sign that the meds are not having the desired effect. At any rate, as you well know, a drink will surely only worsen matters if that's the case. None of this is new info, I'm just here to reinforce what most of you seem to already know.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by gulas

Thanks for the info. FYI, I am BP2, currently without meds, though I do take a multi, fish oil, gingko biloba and St. John's Wort. My drinking always began with a few glasses of euphoria and thereafter plummeted rather precipitously to oblivion, simply an exercise in getting blotto, in an attempt to regain that initial blissful state. The day after was always a wash. And typically the misery carried through into the third day. If I was lucky I could begin to accomplish things by Day 4. You are obviously in the driver's seat. I was not and typically I would be missing that crust of happiness and go back for more. You can well imagine the downward spiral from there. Chasing one's tail. You seem very vigilant but drinking can be a slippery slope so please continue to watch yourself. When you find yourself craving a drink I think that may be a sign that the meds are not having the desired effect. At any rate, as you well know, a drink will surely only worsen matters if that's the case. None of this is new info, I'm just here to reinforce what most of you seem to already know.

Thanks, Gulas!

I guess I never connected drinking with actually getting depressed before, although I know that alcohol is a depressant. It was too hard to see a pattern when I was drinking every day and the immediate rewards (euphoria, etc.) are hard to connect to the consequences (feeling depressed days later.)

Fortunately I realized I was headed toward a downward spiral and have managed to get it in check. It was really all self-medicating, so when the meds are working, it's not hard to pass up most of the time. Social situations are the exception and I suspect will be much harder for me to manage. So maybe I will talk to my T about strategies for those situations.

[SunAngel]

I drink and do not think it messes with my BP. The only thing it does to me is make me tired the next day.

Alcohol really is a depressant though, and it is probably messing with your moods.

I also get drunk faster because of my meds. My pdoc told me it was okay to drink as long as I didn't take my Klonopin.

[YellowWallpaper]

You're a scientist? Cool!
The mood calender/chart/journal is a good idea. Also:
I limit my drinking to one drink. I wish I didn't have to, but the high (or euphoria, release, etc) is just not worth the low after. For me, my mood could even drop later that day/night, and last up to 3 days. If it's a long party, I'll ask a friend to share a beer with me twice (so my drink doesn't get warm or flat).
Hope that helps
*cheers!* (pun intended)

[SunAngel]

A thing that I noticed is that whenever I drink wine, I get very emotional.

I stick to beer or margaritas because they give me a good buzz, not an over-emotional one.

Originally Posted by AniManiac

Yep, do have the data. ...It just doesn't quite give me a way to figure out what the consequences will be from having one drink versus four, or anything like that. So it's really only useful in the all-or-nothing way, and that's sorta what I'm hoping to wiggle around. I don't mind not drinking most of the time, but I'd like to have a glass once in awhile.
But I respond a lot better to data and logic than to blanket injunctions. At least I'm trying to make an informed decision, right?
The not-next-day correlation was what I was really trying to figure out. I can find a couple of spots on my mood chart where a good night of drinking was followed by a miserable day a couple days later. It's just not consistent enough that I'd pick that pattern out by myself...

On my chart, there is a box, and I write the actual number of drinks in it. It does help gauge the level of consequences better, but not perfectly. Oh! And something else I forgot to mention... it effects me more in the earlier part of the day. Though it is my normal pattern that mornings are always the worst for me (regardless of pretty much anything), it's still something I've noticed because it is to a greater degree than other days in the same general time frame. I'm not good with blanket injunctions either. Guessing from previous posts that you are more likely to analyze data more rigorously -- I just take a quick look. Mine is not a perfect correlation (oh how easy it would be then!) and there are days it is not true of, so I know what you mean about the wiggling around.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

On my chart, there is a box, and I write the actual number of drinks in it. It does help gauge the level of consequences better, but not perfectly.

Yep, I have numbers too. Much better for statistical analysis.

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Oh! And something else I forgot to mention... it effects me more in the earlier part of the day. Though it is my normal pattern that mornings are always the worst for me (regardless of pretty much anything), it's still something I've noticed because it is to a greater degree than other days in the same general time frame. I'm not good with blanket injunctions either.

That's the part that's confusing me. Logically, the effects would be worst just after consumption and then would gradually improve. My mornings have improved dramatically with mood stabilizers, and I'm really not feeling it then. Probably it's just plain more complicated than that.

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Guessing from previous posts that you are more likely to analyze data more rigorously -- I just take a quick look. Mine is not a perfect correlation (oh how easy it would be then!) and there are days it is not true of, so I know what you mean about the wiggling around.

A perfect correlation would be mighty suspicious! Yes, I actually run statistical tests. Because I'm a complete and utter shameless geek.

Sleep explains about 20% of my mood variance (less sleep = better mood) and alcohol explains about 30% of my mood variance (more alcohol = worse mood the next day). Both are absurdly statistically significant. But I haven't actually done the stepwise regression to verify which covariates are essential.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by SunAngel

I drink and do not think it messes with my BP. The only thing it does to me is make me tired the next day.

Alcohol really is a depressant though, and it is probably messing with your moods.

I also get drunk faster because of my meds. My pdoc told me it was okay to drink as long as I didn't take my Klonopin.

Thanks, SunAngel! I suspect alcohol is indeed messing with my moods. Oh well; I'll get over it.

So far, I do not get drunk any faster than before. Never had a hangover before starting mood stabilizers, never. Back in the day, I'd be sober and good to drive about 90 minutes from stopping drinking, assuming I wasn't exceeding about a drink an hour. I think I just metabolized the stuff really fast!

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by YellowWallpaper

You're a scientist? Cool!
The mood calender/chart/journal is a good idea. Also:
I limit my drinking to one drink. I wish I didn't have to, but the high (or euphoria, release, etc) is just not worth the low after. For me, my mood could even drop later that day/night, and last up to 3 days. If it's a long party, I'll ask a friend to share a beer with me twice (so my drink doesn't get warm or flat).
Hope that helps
*cheers!* (pun intended)

I've thought about limiting myself to one drink, but at that point, it's not even worth it. One drink over an hour won't even get me tipsy! A one drink limit is just temptation, but I might be able to stick with 2.

At the last party (prior this weekend, that is) I stopped with 2 drinks and switched to seltzer water with cranberry juice. It looks like an adult beverage and tastes good enough to keep sipping, so that worked pretty well. I suspect I'll be doing more of that in the future.

[Moose72]

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...ket_guide2.htm

This shows how much "one drink" is.

[Beebizzy]

I quit drinking altogether in August. But we're not talking about 1 drink or 2 here... I'm afraid it was much more than that - every day, for many years

I'd been using it to self-medicate but I didn't realise that at the time. I wasn't taking any other medication as I was 'over' my psych issues don'tcha know I genuinely thought that it was all a thing of the past and was congratulating myself on how well I was doing. All the while making myself much, much worse. And of course substance abuse is a big red flag anyway.

I certainly felt absolutely rubbish the next day, and especially in the mornings, yes. Major anxiety and despair. I started to think this was 'normal' and I didn't expect anything more. I don't know how it was on, say, day 2 or 3 afterwards because there never was a day 2 or 3 - I drank every day.

I actually got v.depressed and then hypo after I quit. Once the mask was removed, ya know?

I say be sure you can drink in serious moderation, infrequently, or leave it alone. No good comes of it, if you spiral down into problem drinking.

[Rosie23]

Originally Posted by AniManiac

Yes, it is.

I'm very practical, data-driven, logical, etc. Goes hand-in-hand with being a scientist, I guess.

I would say you have cut back quite a bit. And I agree with wanting to be normal and have a couple of drinks with friends. Nothing wrong with that. You just may need to save it for a special occasion.