[faerie_moon_x]

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...olar-disorder/

This article is on the front page of PC today. I read it as best I could.

But at the bottom it says something that I believe is true and it was being discussed in another thread about "mind over matter." And that is if it were purely "mind over matter" alone that makes us better, then that makes bipolar a choice. Choosing not to try hard enough, choosing not to be well enough. And how many of us would choose to have this issue? How many of us chose to have a manic episode that sent to the hospital, or suicidal thoughts, the hallucinations, the paranoia, the risk taking, racing thoughts, SI and all of that. And if bipolar is a choice of us not trying hard enough, then it is not a disability and just a problem with our personalities or upbringing somehow.

I know it's not a choice to me. I would give it up today.

So, just thought I would share. We should all read this article.

[venusss]

It's not a choice. How you deal with it IS.

One of our rock singers lost a leg when he was teenager. Some people would spend the rest whinning of unfair life. This dude? Claims his missing legs was never problem with chicks. He rocks his fake leg too (had a logo of his band encraved in it).

So that's what mind over matter refers to... for me. "It's not my faults" is mere starting point, not ending philosophy. You gotta work with what you got.

So you don't chose to be manic... but you can design support system and safety net for damage limitation. You can put limit on your credit card if spending is the problem. You can create many roadblocks. Whatever gets you through the day...

[Confusedinomicon]

Just remember that cold turkeying medications will often exaggerate symptoms of bipolar and depression. Thats why its important to talk to a doctor who knows about tapering. When you stop taking a med after a long time, your body has stopped producing that neurotransmitter. (Or greatly reduced the production) That is why tapering is so long.

Mind over matter in choosing healthier alternatives along with treatment. You ultimately choose a lot of things in your life and youre not totally helpless. You choose to eat the donut over the apple. You choose to call your pdoc or ride out symptoms. You choose to join support sites to meet like minded people. Bipolar disorder is not a choice, but we are still capable of making choices.

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

It's not a choice. How you deal with it IS.

One of our rock singers lost a leg when he was teenager. Some people would spend the rest whinning of unfair life. This dude? Claims his missing legs was never problem with chicks. He rocks his fake leg too (had a logo of his band encraved in it).

So that's what mind over matter refers to... for me. "It's not my faults" is mere starting point, not ending philosophy. You gotta work with what you got.

So you don't chose to be manic... but you can design support system and safety net for damage limitation. You can put limit on your credit card if spending is the problem. You can create many roadblocks. Whatever gets you through the day...

Yes, I agree with this fully.

But, I think the thing you must remember is that to many, many people "mind over matter" means that if you just try hard enough, you won't be bipolar any more. Which is why I think it can be offensive. I know that's what it means when people say it to me. That I can just choose to not be bipolar (not giving any credit to how well I do take care of myself, and instead only pointing out when I am not doing well enough.)

And we must also be able to forgive ourselves when our plans and safegaurds fail.

[Clinte89]

Yeah mind over matter means that this is a choice, just my view of it. If it where that simple I would never have to deal with a life that is more like a prison sentence than a life. Just my point of view. Thanks for sharing

[hamster-bamster]

"Both Fast and Mondimore stressed the importance of leading a healthy lifestyle, including avoiding alcohol and drugs, cultivating good sleep habits, exercising and effectively coping with stress."

I do THC in low dose and alcohol in moderation daily and am absolutely stable and asymptomatic despite being in a crisis. Alcohol in moderation is very beneficial, population-wide, beyond any doubt. The discussion of alcohol and bp disorder should mention the trade-offs and the individual situations and in general should focus on difficult choices instead of issuing a blank prohibition. E.g. I do not take benzos that notoriously interact with alcohol, so I am OK drinking my one glass of wine every day. If someone takes benzos, then, yes, alcohol should probably be avoided. That is one reason (among many) I will never again take any benzo drug. Bp people should not automatically be deprived of something that is so overwhelmingly good for the population at large. They should instead be counseled on the individual drug/alcohol interactions on a case-by-case basis and perhaps be asked to track their moods in order to determine what if any effect alcohol has on them. Also, it should be determined on an individual basis whether the patient has an addictive personality, because in the case of propensity to addiction, the person cannot stop after having drunk their daily dose. At high doses, alcohol is very harmful (pretty much like Lithium which has a therapeutic range and becomes toxic above it) so if a person cannot control his or her portions, alcohol should indeed be avoided. But not by every bp person!

To me, this article perpetuates a rigid myth.

[venusss]

Alcohol in moderation is very beneficial, population-wide, beyond any doubt.

Can I ask which part of Europe you come from?

YOu sound like all those people in my country who forced Slivowitz on me with "It's MEDICINE" (it might be medicine in small dose. Not in ten shots, lol). With time I learned to like the taste of Slivowitz, not to be social outcast (since refusing drink in the Slavic Europe/vodka belt is horrible horrible social faux paux apparently).

That be said, I love my booze and I metabolize it well (and can outdrink many... muhahhahaha). Maybe not good for me, but eh, Venus wants to have fun sometimes and drink after hard day.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Can I ask which part of Europe you come from?

YOu sound like all those people in my country who forced Slivowitz on me with "It's MEDICINE" (it might be medicine in small dose. Not in ten shots, lol). With time I learned to like the taste of Slivowitz, not to be social outcast (since refusing drink in the Slavic Europe/vodka belt is horrible horrible social faux paux apparently).

That be said, I love my booze and I metabolize it well (and can outdrink many... muhahhahaha). Maybe not good for me, but eh, Venus wants to have fun sometimes and drink after hard day.

American large-scale research agrees that alcohol in moderation is beneficial. It is not just French data if that is what you are asking about. I grew up without alcohol, largely. It is more of a rational decision for me to drink wine, given that I like it well... OK... it is passable, and the benefits are overwhelming. But I take the therapeutic dose for women - one glass of wine a day. I do not go over it. I also decided to do it because I am going to start dating, which means restaurants and of course, wine, and when I am in someone's company I never ever refuse a drink because I have this irrational paranoia that if I say no to alcohol, the person I am with will conclude that I am on psychiatric drugs and I have no intention to disclose either the dx or being on drugs. So I figured - it I am going to drink wine on weekends on dates anyway, why not do it every day? Tonight I have a guest for dinner who is bringing take-out food and I will buy Cotes-du-Rhone - do you know this wine from France by any chance? I like it very much. If you have not tried it, I recommend it.

Vodka is good for you, but in small doses - one shot a night. Being a woman sucks in THAT regard: for men, the therapeutic dose is 2-3 shots a night. It is because our bodies metabolize alcohol differently. That is OK, I still like being a woman

[hamster-bamster]

But if you know that your body metabolizes alcohol well, maybe you personally can drink more.

My European p-doc friend who is seriously into drinking (and who introduced me to Cotes-du-Rhone, sorry I am too lazy to insert accents appropriately) says that alcohol makes me more cheerful, kinder and easier to interact with. I think it is his projection; I personally do not see any difference whether I drink alcohol or not. But your mood clearly benefits from it, right?

[venusss]

I admit, I am kinda... low income drinker and yes, even "we don't drink it for the taste" (meme from my Russian workcamp. Our Russian camp leaders claimed they can tell difference between vodkas. We drank it because "Russia....hahhahaha". Also, I learned Russians drink quietly, whatever it means).

As for wines,I like Balkans wines. Probably in the last cathegory of Moravian wine categorization "good, good for hot wine, bad, good for people from Prague".

I drink to unwind, to unblock writer's block. And sometimes just-cause.

(sadly, we had lot of problems with methanol-containing hard liquor in Czechlands lately. So I am bit paranoid about it).

[hamster-bamster]

I have never had Balkan wines. Italian, French, Chilean, wines from the West Coast (California/Oregon/Washington), but not Balkan. I will try it when I come across it. We have a lot Chilean wines here, and, obviously, Californian, too. I also like white wine with white fish, but I have not organized myself enough to cook fish at home. I have a freezer full of fillets, so eventually I will get there.

What I do not like about the easy-breezy selbstverstaendlich "avoid alcohol" attitude in the article is the assumption that bp people should suffer and restrict themselves more than normal people in order to remain stable. It is punitive, and I do not like it. Same with caffeine - it is an individual decision, not "let's all abstain from caffeine". I drink caffeine in moderation and am perfectly stable. Moreover, it is good for me: a little boost for my low blood pressure is welcome, and the antioxidants in coffee and tea are good, too. Plus, multiple other benefits from green tea specifically. And I would never be able to drink so much liquid if not for teas, and being hydrated is paramount. So a blanket "avoid caffeine" pronouncement, if followed by everyone, would result in a great many people abstaining from caffeine without absolutely any reason. And that's BAD because caffeine is part of the social fabric. We catch up with old friends over coffee. We give chocolate that contains a little caffeine as gifts. Why should a bp person be deprived of that?

[faerie_moon_x]

I actually think that sometimes the avoiding alcohol thing is more because a mix of alcohol and meds could be poisonous. But, really, it should be more personal depending on how you are affected by alcohol.

I don't drink, it's not really my thing. I was never drunk before until this year. The tastes in it overwhelm me. But, also I was afraid of what might happen if I was drunk. Once I told my husband I was scared I would be an angry and mean drunk, he said impossible because I am so kind. That is sweet of him. But in the few times I have been drunk (this year) I am extremely angry. Goofy,sure. But also this rage in me is there. And I think if I was in the right environment I would be that crazy girl ripping someone's hair out.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

I actually think that sometimes the avoiding alcohol thing is more because a mix of alcohol and meds could be poisonous. But, really, it should be more personal depending on how you are affected by alcohol.

Exactly. And it should be spelled out precisely why someone should avoid it, be it due to taking benzos or having an addictive personality or experiencing depressed mood afterwards. The way it is written in the article, it appears that even a bp patient who does not take medications still should avoid alcohol.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

I don't drink, it's not really my thing. I was never drunk before until this year. The tastes in it overwhelm me. But, also I was afraid of what might happen if I was drunk. Once I told my husband I was scared I would be an angry and mean drunk, he said impossible because I am so kind. That is sweet of him. But in the few times I have been drunk (this year) I am extremely angry. Goofy,sure. But also this rage in me is there. And I think if I was in the right environment I would be that crazy girl ripping someone's hair out.

My friend and many other people think that alcohol accentuates what is already there. It does not give you rage; it surfaces the rage. I have no personal opinion on that as I have never been drunk.

[Trippin2.0]

Also, most articles assume EVRYONE with a bp dx is medicated... So what about us with zero med interaction? I dont drink, (over here, drinking means often, mostly getting drunk)so I say I dont drink, I taste as I was meant to be saying, I have the occasional cidars, whiskey's or some glasses of rum (only Spiced Gold, cant stand the taste of other rums) so I'm not included in the 'avoid alcohol' lecture, I'm completely overlooked in most bp articles... Meh, no biggy, just wanted to add my 00.2c

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Also, most articles assume EVRYONE with a bp dx is medicated... So what about us with zero med interaction? I dont drink, (over here, drinking means often, mostly getting drunk)so I say I dont drink, I taste as I was meant to be saying, I have the occasional cidars, whiskey's or some glasses of rum (only Spiced Gold, cant stand the taste of other rums) so I'm not included in the 'avoid alcohol' lecture, I'm completely overlooked in most bp articles... Meh, no biggy, just wanted to add my 00.2c

So you are with rum like I am with food: like some, cannot stand the other.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Also, most articles assume EVRYONE with a bp dx is medicated...

I do not remember where I read it, but on this site: 10% of bp people cannot be helped with medications. If that is the case, articles should definitely include such people - 10% is a lot. Plus, those who do not take medications by choice - also some percentage. Add them together and it is substantial enough for inclusion, for sure.

[Trippin2.0]

Yes Hammy, the way you are with food,I am with alcohol in general. Only brought up the rum, coz it was a surprize discovery to like it at all. Apparantly people drink for enjoyment, and I dont enjoy vile things in my mouth. Most people I know are not picky about alcohol at all tho... You're right, they should include the non-medicated community,I've rarely seen it tho, so dont read bp articles as its hardly relevent to my bp management model

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Only brought up the rum, coz it was a surprize discovery to like it at all. Apparantly people drink for enjoyment, and I dont enjoy vile things in my mouth.

This has always been my problem, too.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Yes Hammy, the way you are with food,I am with alcohol in general. Only brought up the rum, coz it was a surprize discovery to like it at all. Apparantly people drink for enjoyment, and I dont enjoy vile things in my mouth. Most people I know are not picky about alcohol at all tho... You're right, they should include the non-medicated community,I've rarely seen it tho, so dont read bp articles as its hardly relevent to my bp management model

Yes, and I think you fall into that 10% because you tried. So Venus would be that additional percentage that is by choice and you fall in the 10% that cannot be helped. Because it is not just that the side effects were awful but you weren't helped - right? I remember that you felt like a retard on Lithium (see, I have a good memory on Lithium - I am lucky, basically), that the Lithium+Prozac combo still --> feeling flat, etc. etc.

[Trippin2.0]

yes, your memory is intact. I did feel like a retard! But not just the obvious side effects, like Anika, I was way more symptomatic when medicated, so no meds are not for me and yes, I fall into that percentage

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

yes, your memory is intact. I did feel like a retard! But not just the obvious side effects, like Anika, I was way more symptomatic when medicated, so no meds are not for me and yes, I fall into that percentage

Thank you - I know it is intact as I put it to the test yesterday. I memorized 2 pages of riding directions (1 hour worth of riding) after one ride. I thought that as a test it was no worse than paying money to a neuropsychologist to tell me that my memory is OK.

[Trippin2.0]

Much BETTER than paying the money I say!!!

[faerie_moon_x]

Yeah, I think we can test our own memory pretty good by ourselves until it gets really bad.

I hate it when you say "my memory is bad" and someone says, remember these things "truck, foot, plate," and then two minutes later they say "do you remember the things I told you?" And you do, so they say "see you're memory is not bad!"

I just want to be like... that's not what i mean, idiot.... >.>

[hamster-bamster]

There is another thing that I do... without trying. I memorize sequences of 6-digit numbers. I work with "tickets" and that is how they are numbered. After working with them for a long time I start remembering them. Completely random meaningless number sequences. Odd, but I do that.