[moodiegirl]

I know this has probably been discussed before, but I'd really like to know if any of you who have bipolar with psychotic symptoms live meds-free? Do you feel okay, or do you have episodes of psychotic mania / depression? How long have you managed to feel okay without meds?

I had one psychotic manic episode, and I don't want to go through that EVER again. It was devastating for me and my family. Depression I can handle, but not that.

BUT I would really love to live without meds. They are a constant reminder that there's something "wrong" with me, and I don't really feel like that anymore otherwise. I'm dreading the long-term side effects of my meds. I've been feeling okay for a long time now, I still have some issues but not that bipolar-related. So, is there any chance of me going meds-free WITHOUT doing damage to myself, my husband and my family?

[hamster-bamster]

I think Anika does. Anika. with a dot. at the end.

[Trippin2.0]

Yip, Anika does manage med free and she has a BP1 dx with psychosis... I only experienced full on psychosis,twice. Both were depression orientated and haven't had a full on episode since quitting my meds a year ago... Anika will be more help, her psychosis presents itself with mania, and she's had lots of experience there in the past... Maybe she'll login once she's done torturing mum with crumbs and coffee

imagine that!...crumbs and coffee!...ruined my life!...

sounds like a cool name for a cafe...

not the ruined bit...

but crumbs come off bigger things...like cakes and yummy bread and stuff

[venusss]

Two words: Icarus Project.

[hopeeternal]

Originally Posted by moodiegirl

I know this has probably been discussed before, but I'd really like to know if any of you who have bipolar with psychotic symptoms live meds-free? Do you feel okay, or do you have episodes of psychotic mania / depression? How long have you managed to feel okay without meds?

I had one psychotic manic episode, and I don't want to go through that EVER again. It was devastating for me and my family. Depression I can handle, but not that.

BUT I would really love to live without meds. They are a constant reminder that there's something "wrong" with me, and I don't really feel like that anymore otherwise. I'm dreading the long-term side effects of my meds. I've been feeling okay for a long time now, I still have some issues but not that bipolar-related. So, is there any chance of me going meds-free WITHOUT doing damage to myself, my husband and my family?

You and I have an identical diagnosis.

I guess I have trouble understanding people who want to live med-free. I have tried that, and it just doesn't work for me. If you have an illness, address it in the best way you know how, using the best possbile tools to tackle the problem.

Bottom line: live with meds. You may find that living without them causes you to struggle to cope with and manage your illness. It's really an illness, you're really sick, and you may really need meds to keep things under control. I don't think we can look too hard at long-term effects of meds if the short-term effect is an unstable life.

Sorry I can't support your wish to be med-free. If i had seen it work more, I'd go there. I wish you the best, and hope you are receiving appropriate care.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by hopeeternal

You and I have an identical diagnosis.

I guess I have trouble understanding people who want to live med-free. I have tried that, and it just doesn't work for me. If you have an illness, address it in the best way you know how, using the best possbile tools to tackle the problem.

Bottom line: live with meds. You may find that living without them causes you to struggle to cope with and manage your illness. It's really an illness, you're really sick, and you may really need meds to keep things under control. I don't think we can look too hard at long-term effects of meds if the short-term effect is an unstable life.

Sorry I can't support your wish to be med-free. If i had seen it work more, I'd go there. I wish you the best, and hope you are receiving appropriate care.

1) some don't percieve it as illness per se. There is not proof of what it is.

2) Meds are not "the best" option for everybody. For some the cost benefit scenario comes out as... meds aren't the winning solution.

3) med free doesn't neccessary mean more unstable then with meds.

4) Seen it work? There's few unmedicated members here, so maybe you are selectively reading?

5) if you wish to jump down on people for wanting to go medfree crazyboards.org may be good place for you. This is, however, more open minded places... and thanks God for that.

[Trippin2.0]

Hopeeternal check my signature on being unmedicated. Also, not all of us subscribe to the school of thought that we are ill, as that has proven to be counter productive for some of us. I didnt catch bp (not even from a parent) I cant pass it on when I sneeze, and meds have NOT helped manage it, so I choose to be without meds coz they made me feel worse, sometimes they even made my symptoms worse. So a word to the wise, dont go insulting people who choose a different route to wellness.

[hopeeternal]

Wow, I'm really sorry that people felt this was an attack post. I apologize if that's how it came off.

I came here looking for help and a community who would be supportive, and sometimes hearing what you don't necessarily want to hear can nonetheless be helpful. That's been my experience on other boards of other types. So I offered that. And moodiegirl asked the question, and I thought I'd answer, based on my personal experience.

For those who feel that bipolar isn't truly an illness, I have no comeback for that. I was diagnosed by a doctor, and have come to understand, confirmed by a great deal of personal research, that bipolar disorder is a chemical imbalance in the brain that causes behavioral isses, and I believe all that. I assume that those who run this board acknowledge that, and I assumed that those using this board would acknowledge that.

I'm sorry if anything I said appeared judgemental or critical - I was just giving my opinion. moodiegirl, did what I wrote offer you an opinion to put in your pipe and smoke?

Listen, the last thing I would want to do here is cause any pain - I'm guessing we're here because we seek relief.

My best to you all.

[venusss]

For those who feel that bipolar isn't truly an illness, I have no comeback for that. I was diagnosed by a doctor, and have come to understand, confirmed by a great deal of personal research, that bipolar disorder is a chemical imbalance in the brain that causes behavioral isses, and I believe all that. I assume that those who run this board acknowledge that, and I assumed that those using this board would acknowledge that.

yeah, chemical imbalance in the brain... don't even let me start on that. And actually, the owner of this board, Doc John, does not approve of the pure biological model. But he is just owner, it's us who run the show.

There are people here who believe in chemical imbalance and its variations. There are those who do not.

Diagnosed by doctor? Not so long ago gays were diagnosed by doctor as being gay=ill. So meh. Problem of psychiatry is that it's acts like their facts are set in stone, when it's pretty much a social construct.

You are welcome to post here, but maybe learn to use more I... statements. If you view yourself as ill, we are not gonna dispute it. But that's up to each of us to chose. Some of us don't like to be called "ill".

Maybe, you could also look at the Icarus Project. There's lot of talk of "making your own maps, your own meanings". Or just read here... there's been some interesting convos on this subject too.

and if people are defensive about their non-med approach... well, because it's so hard to find our place. It's not really within the 'system'... which few had bad experience with. And it's actually great that it's possible to talk alternatives here. I seen other boards that seemed like run by Big Pharma representives (with dash of Stalin).

[moodiegirl]

I really didn't want to start a fight between you guys here. Please, I only ask for your opinion and experience.
I'll return to post in the morning, time to go to sleep sorry.
Thank you all for your input, I'll reply to everyone when I get back.

[venusss]

Have a good sleep.

[Dragonfly33]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Diagnosed by doctor? Not so long ago gays were diagnosed by doctor as being gay=ill. So meh. Problem of psychiatry is that it's acts like their facts are set in stone, when it's pretty much a social construct.

You are welcome to post here, but maybe learn to use more I... statements. If you view yourself as ill, we are not gonna dispute it. But that's up to each of us to chose. Some of us don't like to be called "ill".

Just for the record - my comment is not intended to insult or poke fun at the OP.

You crack me up Venus! I just finished a Psych paper and learned that the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) categorized homosexuality as a disorder in an earlier edition (I'm not sure what year).

In its most current edition (DSM-IV-TR), excessive shyness, gender bias, and insufficient sensitivity to cultural diversity are considered "disorders".

On a side note, I love my Pdoc, I just saw him today and we discussed yoga and meditation as alternative forms of therapy in an effort to reduce or eliminate my meds. He's so supportive and I'm anxious to start!

[Trippin2.0]

OMW! What next? just imagine how many prejudiced people will be granted leniancy for hate crimes due to being'disordered'... Ugh, I dont want to imagine!
I can just see those old fogies sitting around the round table discussing which disorder to create next... Probably something like people who love carbs are disorderd They really aim to diagnose the WHOLE world dont they Well here's a solid 10/10 for effort from me And people wonder why there are so many anti-psychiatry folk...

[Anika.]

Hey Moodiegirl, as Hamster and Trippin said I have Bipolar 1 and a dx of psychosis NOS. I started getting psychosis at 11 years. I was medicated for years and years, but I am med free now. In my case the medications helped keep me in a constant circle of mania, psychosis and depression. The side effects of the meds we use can in fact be the very symptoms we are trying to treat. From what I can see this can become an endless circle for many people. Maybe not all but it's pretty common in my opinion.

Tho I am med free I and have been for over a year, I have not had an episode of mania, psychosis or depression since September last year. So since I have been off meds I have not had any mood episodes. Prior to that the longest I went without an episode was a month to two months at a time. Most of the time I was caught in one or the other.

It took me quite a long time to get there tho. I had tried dropping my meds cold turkey about 20 or so times, which never worked. This time I took it really slow. I also did a lot of leg work. Healing old wounds, working on my cognitive thought distortions.. like black and white thinking that kind of stuff. Finding my spirituality again, which for me is mostly about how I live and how I choose to view life and all that comes with it. I use mindfulness a lot, it can just become a way of life, and meditation with a lot of yoga. I also cut out gluten when my dr's found a link there. Gluten actually can create symptoms you would see in mental illness including psychosis. There is some research on that end and more with schizophrenia, and autism which is quite interesting if you look at the idea that add, autism, bipolar, schitzoaffective, and schizophrenia might very well be a spectrum. There are some studies on mania and gluten, which do show a link.

That said, food basically is chemicals, so no wonder it can have a big effect on your mind like any other chemical you put in the body. There is also nueroplasicity which deserves to be looked into if we also look at the chemical imbalance theory.

So I did change quite a few things, my perspective I would say probably the number one thing that keeps me balanced. I realize not everyone shares my opinion, but going from someone who thought I was always going to decline mentally and had, with no hope of every getting better let alone stable.. to now. I cannot help but think there are other possibilities within our reach.

If you want to chat or talk you can PM me anytime. I hope that helped some what, you have to decide what is best for you and what you want in life, but I think there are a lot of possibilities out there. What I can honestly tell you is that I have not been this peaceful or content in my life before. This is what has worked for me, others might find different ways, you just have to find out what works for you, and give everything a fair shot.. just like how we do with medications.

[moodiegirl]

Hi,
had a good night's sleep, thank you everyone for replying, I'll try to share my thoughts on this too.

I guess I have trouble understanding people who want to live med-free. I have tried that, and it just doesn't work for me. If you have an illness, address it in the best way you know how, using the best possbile tools to tackle the problem.

I have tried to "get rid of" my mood stabilizer and AD, but I slipped back into depression, so I know where you're coming from. However, I think I have a lot more coping skills and a willpower that I didn't have back then. I don't know what it would be like without the AP, but I would really like to know if I can manage without.

I used to have the same opinion actually, but I think it's slowly starting to change. Like some have said, even the experts don't know everything.

1) some don't percieve it as illness per se. There is not proof of what it is.

2) Meds are not "the best" option for everybody. For some the cost benefit scenario comes out as... meds aren't the winning solution.

3) med free doesn't neccessary mean more unstable then with meds.

4) Seen it work? There's few unmedicated members here, so maybe you are selectively reading?

5) if you wish to jump down on people for wanting to go medfree crazyboards.org may be good place for you. This is, however, more open minded places... and thanks God for that.

I agree with you Venus, except I didn't percieve hopeeternal's post as a personal attack on me.

Hopeeternal check my signature on being unmedicated. Also, not all of us subscribe to the school of thought that we are ill, as that has proven to be counter productive for some of us. I didnt catch bp (not even from a parent) I cant pass it on when I sneeze, and meds have NOT helped manage it, so I choose to be without meds coz they made me feel worse, sometimes they even made my symptoms worse.

Thanks for your take on this Trippin, kudos to you for managing your bp meds-free.

[moodiegirl]

Oops I don't know how to quote so that it would show who the original poster was. Can anyone help me with that please, I'm quite new to this

On a side note, I love my Pdoc, I just saw him today and we discussed yoga and meditation as alternative forms of therapy in an effort to reduce or eliminate my meds. He's so supportive and I'm anxious to start!

Good for you Dragonfly, I wish it were the same for me.

Hey Moodiegirl, as Hamster and Trippin said I have Bipolar 1 and a dx of psychosis NOS. I started getting psychosis at 11 years. I was medicated for years and years, but I am med free now. In my case the medications helped keep me in a constant circle of mania, psychosis and depression. The side effects of the meds we use can in fact be the very symptoms we are trying to treat. From what I can see this can become an endless circle for many people. Maybe not all but it's pretty common in my opinion.

Tho I am med free I and have been for over a year, I have not had an episode of mania, psychosis or depression since September last year. So since I have been off meds I have not had any mood episodes. Prior to that the longest I went without an episode was a month to two months at a time. Most of the time I was caught in one or the other.

It took me quite a long time to get there tho. I had tried dropping my meds cold turkey about 20 or so times, which never worked. This time I took it really slow. I also did a lot of leg work. Healing old wounds, working on my cognitive thought distortions.. like black and white thinking that kind of stuff. Finding my spirituality again, which for me is mostly about how I live and how I choose to view life and all that comes with it. I use mindfulness a lot, it can just become a way of life, and meditation with a lot of yoga. I also cut out gluten when my dr's found a link there. Gluten actually can create symptoms you would see in mental illness including psychosis. There is some research on that end and more with schizophrenia, and autism which is quite interesting if you look at the idea that add, autism, bipolar, schitzoaffective, and schizophrenia might very well be a spectrum. There are some studies on mania and gluten, which do show a link.

That said, food basically is chemicals, so no wonder it can have a big effect on your mind like any other chemical you put in the body. There is also nueroplasicity which deserves to be looked into if we also look at the chemical imbalance theory.

So I did change quite a few things, my perspective I would say probably the number one thing that keeps me balanced. I realize not everyone shares my opinion, but going from someone who thought I was always going to decline mentally and had, with no hope of every getting better let alone stable.. to now. I cannot help but think there are other possibilities within our reach.

If you want to chat or talk you can PM me anytime. I hope that helped some what, you have to decide what is best for you and what you want in life, but I think there are a lot of possibilities out there. What I can honestly tell you is that I have not been this peaceful or content in my life before. This is what has worked for me, others might find different ways, you just have to find out what works for you, and give everything a fair shot.. just like how we do with medications.

Thank you Anika! Your personal experience gives me hope that there is another way, without meds.

I'm planning on getting pregnant soon, and I don't want meds to harm the baby in any way, so that is an additional motivation. My pdoc says stay on Abilify,it's safe, but I'm not so sure.

Whatever decision I make, it won't be a quick one. I am however already looking into alternative stuff, it will be beneficial with or without meds I think.

Oh and just one more thing, I think when I first got sick, meds were the ONLY option. Without them, I would have died of exhaustion. So I'm not totally against meds.

[Anika.]

Originally Posted by moodiegirl

Oh and just one more thing, I think when I first got sick, meds were the ONLY option. Without them, I would have died of exhaustion. So I'm not totally against meds.

Sometimes they can serve a real purpose.. I would agree. And yes I think it would be a benefit either way, trying to get healthier is probably good for everyone

[Confusedinomicon]

I don't think taking meds is a bad thing, but I think that taking multiple pills for the same symptoms are overkill.

I am on the boat that getting through EMOTIONAL pain will benefit and reduce symptoms of bipolar disorder. I understand that there are natural depressions and manias that don't have anything to do with what's happening in the external world. However, the way you react to your inner-self determines if you will feel better or worse. Self-care DOES in fact involve using your medical support team if medication has shown to be beneficial to your managing your illness.

I feel like the perspective you have on it alters the intensity.