do we ever get symptom free?

It's hard to give a clear-cut 'yes' or 'no' answer to this question. Generally speaking Bipolar Disorder is a condition that develops (typically) in our late teens and stays with us until the end of our lives (unlike depression which can be totally cured with the correct help in most cases).

However, even though Bipolar Disorder is a life-long condition, with the correct treatment (a combination of therapy, medication (antipsychotic; antidepressant; mood stabilizer) and community support) a productive and enjoyable life can be led. Symptoms can be controlled in many cases and even though symptoms may still be present: with the correct monitoring and treatment, they are typically experienced to a much lower severity.

Even without treatment during the cycle of bipolar disorder we have a moment between the depressive and hypomanic (typical Bipolar II)/manic (typical Bipolar I) in which for up to a few months we experience a "normal" (more appropriately, "typical") mood. So during those periods patients can be almost completely symptom-free.

Rapid Cycling is when this "normal" period does not exist between episodes, and shifts between moods happen on a more frequent basis than is typically expected.

Obviously it is important to point out that in a small amount of cases with the correct treatment in place a relapse into either a depressive or elated mood can occur. Though in the majority of cases, with enough monitoring of the disorder in the patient and correct treatment, a reasonably symptom-free life can be lead - though it is still important to avoid any identified triggers of an episode (for example: caffeine for a manic episode or lack of sleep for a depressive episode).

Everybody is different and medications, therapy and the disorder itself affects all in different ways.

Just a few statistics...

"Success rates of 70 to 85% were once expected with lithium for the acute phase treatment of mania, however, lithium response rates of only 40 to 50% are now commonplace. (Surgeon General Report for Mental Health)"

"Nearly 9 out of 10 consumers with bipolar disorder are satisfied with their current medication(s), although side effects remain a problem. (DBSA, 1999)"

"Consumers who report high levels of satisfaction with their treatment and treatment provider have a much more positive outlook about their illness and their ability to cope with it. (DBSA, 1999)"

Taken from DBSA

RB ♥

Haha sorry what.... 9 out of 10 are satisfied with there current medications ?!? We must have the majority of the 1 out of those 10 people here on this forum. Or they really messed up and it should read more like 9 out of 10 people are currently dissatisfied.

They say the medications are getting better and more options available. That stat is from 1999, so something isn't adding up.

I am purely speaking to that statistic RB, it seems pretty off. I am not sure where or how they collect this data.

Hey, I didn't write the statistics I believe they collect the statistics through surveys of bipolar patients. Slightly outdated, I agree, but there are new medications which are indeed more effective than those that predate them.

I've seen people that have been treated well and their bipolar is now very well managed. I don't think it's easy to judge the effectiveness of treatments by posts on the PC forum, due to factors such as: diagnoses (self diagnosed or diagnosed), age, time since diagnoses, history of misdiagnoses, medication compliance, medicated or not, therapy compliance, etc. Additionally I've noticed that once bipolar disorder is treated some people stop posting on the forums and people are often more inclined to post more often when they are suffering or during an episode than when leading a relatively good life.

RB ♥

I agree but 90% sucess is a really huge claim to sucess. The sheer amount of dissatisfaction with meds posts here even factoring in all that would still likely not be 90%.

I was just thinking too...what is satisfied, especially when they tuck a clause about side effects at the end of the statement. Hard to meassure satisfaction.

I am always a little too interested in stats.

In honesty my level of satisfaction is when I'm not self harming, when I can get out of bed, when I'm not seeing my dead relatives and when I can go a day without breaking down in tears.

That's me satisfied. I'm easy to please obviously :P

RB ♥

You are easy to please, but that could change as you get older. Sometimes we become more demanding. Ok ha I do tho.

Found this tho, http://www.cchrint.org/psycho-pharma...t-groups/dbsa/ and that is a bit interesting, since I just wanted to see who DBSA was, since I didn't hear of them before.

Now I have to look up the site where I found that and see who they are. Kidding but that doesnt look to good, seems they are very very involved with pharma co's and finances. Some one has to fund their research..who better?

I admit right off the bat that I have not read all the posts on this thread. It has been a l-o-o-n-g day, with my trying to help many people here. So, if I repeat what someone else has said, then at least two of us think the same way.

I believe people can reach a point where they are "stable"--not too far up or too far down. And in a sense, then, it's almost like they are in remission. So, in that way, they can be symptom-free.

I am a firm believer in people with bipolar taking some meds, if they need to (and I think most of us need at least some minimum amount). I just take Tegretol, wellbutrin, and klonopin. Believe me, that's a big reduction in what used to take. I hope to get off the klonopin one of these days. The Tegretol also treats a facial pain condition I have.

That said, I also believe therapy is a good idea for bipolars--be it talk therapy, CBT, DBT, etc. I find some of my depression, anyway, is triggered by life events.

As far as the statistics on people being happy with their drugs, we need to keep in mind that we have a rather biased group as a sample here. Generally, we post here when we feel a need to complain or ask advice about something we're upset about. I don't think many of us post just to say something like, "I just want you folks to know I am just thrilled with the drugs I take, my psychiatrist is wonderful, my therapist is excellent, and I am just doing great." (Except perhaps in a success story!)

Just like many other disorders, bipolar can very in intensity and seriousness. And what works for one person, alas, often doesn't work for someone else.

I do think there is hope!

(I see a cane coming, getting ready to yank me off the stage.....Bye!)

I think meds help but we're never symptom free.

Do you mean we're never not depressed or never not manic--or never even in a "mixed state"--or are you referring to side effects from meds, like some people mentioned?

I asked my doc when will I be rid of bipolar symptoms once stable or even rid of fluctuating episodes. She said in my case we will always be chasing after the next episode to treat it in time. This is rapid cycling in my case. We are changing some meds and the interval between episodes is getting much longer. So I am hopeful.

I was first under the impression that you take the pills and all those bipolar sorrows just disappear. That was not the case, at least not for me. Its way more complicated. It's down the rabbit hole.

Just to give some hope - I'm symptom free for the past year or so on meds. But it took many years to get to this combo. Also I think therapy has made a big difference.

Yup. When I researched on drugs... none of the side-effects I found it worth it... even in theory. Gaining weight? Took me so long to get liking my giraffe self and it's hard to find clothes for giraffes... and to be a fat giraffe? Not acceptable. I get angry when i read how people's doctors tell them about "fat and happy" (when most of them would NOT look twice on fat chick).

Anything making me slow, stupid, messing with my congition? I'd leap off the city walls. I value my brain too much...

So on.

Well, in a way I am happy with "my meds" (none). Do I count among the group?

Also... as somebody who took a course in methodology... sometimes you can influence the results of a research by wording questions certain way... or excluding certain groups. Or selecting results you like, by setting filter criterion in a way to get what you need.

And please, do not give me... or us the complicance BS. How if we were good little patients and eat our brocoli and took our meds and listened to parents and therapists... we'd be well, so it's really our fault. There's bad meds and bad therapy. If we talk treatment success and failures, they need to be mentioned.

And honestly, I don't care anymore if people say I discourage people from taking meds. If they work for you, you will not drop them because some chick on internet said something. On the other hand, if what you doing ain't working... maybe time to look outside what you known till now.
This is actually what I love about this forum that you can mention bach essences or being med free and aren't jumped on my entire forum (that's crazyboards.org if somebody finds that appealing ).

and yup DBSA *is* Pharma group.

http://theicarusproject.net/depressi...ma-front-group

i think even with the best meds and all, the psymptoms never really go away for good.. it's always their

Dr Rufus and John Nash made it without meds. They are schizophrenic. I want to make it like them although I am not schizophrenic.

I don't see my extreme moods as symptoms. I don't like clinical labeling. It will only diminish my creativity to manage my life.

It's important not to over-generalize. Just because SOME can cope without medication it doesn't mean all can.

Besides it is important to note that here in the UK at least, services prefer to offer therapy over medication.

I stopped taking my medication and I ended up with a severed radial artery. I now value the ability and free will to chose whether or not I am medicated more than ever. And I can say without medication I would not be able to function at all.

I dont think anyone is over generalizing RB. What has happened is a huge amount of misinformation that has been passed off as fact by the very people who are responible to be giving correct and truthful information. Trying to get to the bottom of it is not easy.

I went of meds many times and it was really bad. But past is not always a good indication of future. Things change, people change, ideas and perspective change, situations change ... life changes.. heck even brains change. I think it is important to keep that in mind and keep an open mind to possibilities.

A lot of research does not differentiate between withdrawal symptoms and reoccurance of bipolar symptoms.

Some people seem to be trying to force their experience and opinion of medication and bipolar on others. Everyone is different.

Honestly the attitude on this forum seems to have gone down a bit. Just trying to be helpful and you just get crap.

RB.

see and I was told meds and designer's clothes would solve my grief issues at age of 10.

It's great you have good services in the UK. Sadly, many of don't have raving stories to tell.

Overgeneralize? Well, the pharma funded organization's stats did exactly that. Just because meds helped you, doesn't mean they are that helpful for everybody.

And please, don't call me "luckier" and such.

To be honest, I like how the forums changed. Oh, the ZOMG I used to get.

Force? Aren't we all bit stuborn? Aren't we all sharing our experience? Aren't we all trying to share what we found helpful? Yes, more people are med-free. But I think the overall atmosphere is better then two years ago.

that too.

and then there's the fact that many people quit meds in midst of episode, so they weren't working in the first place.

Funny how people who tell other people to take your meds etc etc are never seen in the same light you just painted RB. No one is trying to force anything. It is a discussion with many views. Truth is the minority view usually tends to be the one that gets jumped on. Kind of like real life, majority gets to rule even if the other holds much value.

PC is not a pro med forum, it is an open forum to many opinions. We are all trying to helpful, being helpful is not exclusive to being pro med. We have had this debate many times here and the forum has become a lot more pro choice than it was when I first came. I think that is reasonable.

I am not anti med. I am anti rob hope, anti false misleading information, and anti boxing people into corners. We are all aware meds can help at certain times I think. I am pretty sure we are all glad for that too.

What crap did you get RB ? The fact that I said past is not good indication of future. If I used my past to predict future that would make things look pretty dang bleak. It would sure not give me much hope for anything better and probably get in the way of any change taking place. So if that is crap..well I am not sure how that works. I was not rude or mean, disrespectful or otherwise to you.

Calling it crap being given to you, and you talk about the attitude here, is that not itself attitude?

Dunno about other people, but I think I'm probably going to be stuck with my symptoms/issues/quirks/whatever you want to call it for the rest of my life. I don't take medication. I've just come to accept this, and learn to deal with whatever comes up to the best of my ability, without doing anything too stupid. After having been in a situation where I had no choice but to function without any kind of support, I've learned that the only thing that's truly dependable and guaranteed to make any kind of impact (good or bad) is myself.

No, no crap. One try to live life without meds. Another try with meds. We are humans trying to live our lives. That should be our attitude, we keep trying... because we are human trying to find the meaning of our existence in our clinically labeled life.