[manicminer]

Was reading a news article about the lack of mental health care in the US that mentioned the NRA released a statement suggesting there should be a national database for the mentally ill, so that these individuals would not be permitted to purchase firearms. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BS07O20121229

I am a responsible, legal gun owner, Lifetime member of the NRA, and recieved a formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder in 2009, so such a statement is extremely un-nerving and upsetting to me.

I have purchased several firearms since my diagnosis, including handguns, shotguns and high powered rifles. The background check forms do have a question about mental illness, but as it is written it only asked if you've ever been committed by someone else or been deemed unfit to take care of yourself by a court. During my single hospitalization, I agreed to be admitted to the hospital's Mental Health Unit on my own free will. I have never been committed to any institution, so naturally I check NO to this question and have never been denied in a background check.

Through work I also had to go through a background check from the ATF to handle and distribute high explosives, (I work in the warehouse at a coal mine and am responsible for keeping inventory on and issuing out dynamite, "rockbusters", and firing caps), and passed this check with no problems. My boss is fully aware of my condition and has no problem allowing me to have this responsibility.

What is y'alls opinion on such a database and how do you think it could affect our rights as citizens who have recieve a dx of mental illness?

[BipolaRNurse]

Oh sure, a database of the mentally ill is a great idea.........that is, if I woke up in 1930s Germany this morning.

I too am an NRA member who once had a CCW permit, and who still owns (and appreciates) firearms. I am OUTRAGED that an organization that champions freedom---an organization I've supported for years---would call this idea an acceptable option. I think I'm going to let Mr. LaPierre know how some of us "mentally ill" feel about being lumped in with mass murderers, and disenfranchised of our Second Amendment rights.

[kitty004567]

I have been considering purchasing a firearm for home protection, self-defense. I have spent a lot of time researching firearms safety especially as it pertains to self-defense. I had a friend who has a friend who owns enough guns that I'm pretty sure he could single handedly stop a zombie apocalypse take me out shooting so I could get an idea of what I liked.

I don't think that just because I have bipolar disorder I should be denied access to a tool which could save me from being a victim of yet another violent crime. I certainly don't believe I should be on a list simply because I have bipolar disorder. I think if anything, having bipolar disorder and being hyperaware of the laws would actually make me a safer gun owner than the average gun owner. I think this is especially important because statistically, people with mental illness are more likely than an average citizen to be a victim of a violent crime. Why shouldn't I be allowed to defend my home, my life and my body?

[purpledaisy]

This really makes me angry.

I live in an area with lots of hunters. Lots of people have rifles or shotguns or whatever in their pickup windows. See? I don't even know the difference, but I'm all for their rights to do so.

I have family members who have lots of guns. Some females in my family have CCW.

I don't have CCW but have thought about getting it. Mainly just because I can and thought it would be kind of cool to have it, just for the sake of having it.

I have a fairly close relative who was bipolar back before it was called bipolar. He killed two people and then shot himself in the head.

That kind of hangs over my head like a big, dark cloud.

But I don't think it's right for people to act like we are all potential mass murderers.

After Newtown, I was seeing all kinds of posts on Facebook that implied that mentally ill people are dangerous. This guy was saying we walk around every day next to mentally ill people who are capable of killing.

I responded and said something like "And you walk around each day conversing with and doing business with mentally ill people who are productive members of society, and you have no idea who they are."

He responded with, "You have no idea what I think."

???

OK. What I meant was the person right next to you, who you admire, who you have done business with for years, who you think of as an ordinary guy or gal, might possible be mentally ill. So why lump us all together because of this guy in CT?

Really irritated me when the guy said, "You have no idea what I think." And a few people came on there blasting me, saying I was wrong and mentally ill people need to be dealt with, and why was I defending this kid in CT. As if I was defending him.

And, yes, it's a big tragedy. But I think it's wrong to act like this guy was totally at fault. Not that it was someone else's fautl because it wasn't. It was the fault of his illness. He slid into the fire and couldn't find a way out.

[manicminer]

After Newtown, I was seeing all kinds of posts on Facebook that implied that mentally ill people are dangerous. This guy was saying we walk around every day next to mentally ill people who are capable of killing.

I responded and said something like "And you walk around each day conversing with and doing business with mentally ill people who are productive members of society, and you have no idea who they are."

He responded with, "You have no idea what I think."

The most important and effective rebuttal to these ignorant statement would be " and what about all the mentally healthy people we walk around every day next to who are capable of killing?" He response was one of pure ignorance. You called him out, and his simple mind had no repsonse to give.

There is no statistic out there that can stronly tie an increase in violent gun crimes in the mentally ill vs. mentally healthy. Think about it, you'd need to be of pretty sound mental health to plan some of these masterminded shootings and uncovered plots that have been publicized recently. Poeple don't just go and one day go off their meds and carry out a tactical assault on a school.

i think this idea is a bit over the top... don't you think?

for 1, i know i wouldn't wanted to be listed pubblickly on such a data base, and secondly, it wouldn't exactly be very good for our reputation- and will just increase stigma

[Lomika]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

i think this idea is a bit over the top... don't you think?

for 1, i know i wouldn't wanted to be listed pubblickly on such a data base, and secondly, it wouldn't exactly be very good for our reputation- and will just increase stigma

Exactly. I don't want to buy guns, but most definitely do not want to be in a database that everyone can access. This will never happen though because it would totally go against patient privacy.
Ignorance is a real issue among people. Very sad.

[Moreta]

I've tried to make an argument why we should have guns in our house, but every time I bring it up my husband shoots it down. He's worried about the 5-10 days I'm really bad a year and he doesn't want me to use it on him or myself. Which I totally agree.

I really do think there should be a way for them to check in a background check about your mental status. Not that that would keep guns out of mentally unstable peoples hands, but it might deter a few.

[Clinte89]

I agree this is a terrible idea and will only add to the stigma and hurt people with mental illness. I cant imagine why they think mentally ill people are dangerous I just wonder where they get these ideas. Im not a gun owner and never would as I can be a danger to myself and I know that. So I dont own a gun. But thats what resposible people should do if they know they may be a danger to someone or themselves then owning a weapon may be a bad idea it should be up to the state to reguate wether or not you get a gun. Just my .02

Originally Posted by manicminer

...and how do you think it could affect our rights as citizens who have recieve a dx of mental illness?

Rights? There would be none. Anyone who thinks this would start and end at the purchase of guns is looking at naive in the rear view mirror.

It is already the case that many who should seek help do not. How many more would not if such a list were made? And think about it -- where would they put the dividing line? What of misdiagnoses? Would it include those who actually do not have an MI but simply had a s***storm occur in their life that threw them into a one time depressive episode? Children? Axis II? ADD? (Databases already exist of those filling their schedule II meds, btw.) I can't focus enough (w/o head-spinning panic -- and still screwing it up) to balance my checkbook or to fill out even 3 money orders at the same time. Mastermind a criminal plot? As if!!! One of the "joyous" aspects of my OCD is worrying that I might have done something wrong even when I clearly didn't. And we're talking really small stuff. Did I mis-estimate a number on a form? Was there a rule I didn't know about? I'll get back into a car like 3 times after parallel parking it to ensure that it is very very close to the curb, and not into any yellow etc, sure I will be ticketed otherwise. Hell, I obey "rules" that don't even exist for fear of getting in trouble(!) "You never know." It's not that I don't do things (even technically illegal things) --it's the point of being scrupulous to the point where breaking the number of laws both legal and moral that it would take at one time is utterly inconceivable.

And why on earth should doctors be given that kind of power? (Not saying it would be common, but...) It could so easily be be used simply because a doctor had a personal grudge with someone (especially in small towns). And they'd know damn well that there would be no personal repercussions. Sue them? Besides them being taken more seriously than you (and able to afford power lawyers), how does one prove they don't have something? Proving the non-existence of something is essentially impossible. It would also put every well-meaning doctor in a position where they dare not dx, knowing they could ruin someone's life.

Because again I say, and cannot possibly stress enough -- it would be unbelievably naive to think that if such a list existed it would not also end up being used in contexts way outside the realm of gun purchasing.

(Btw, I am most assuredly not an alarmist, conspiracy theorist or politically extreme. Just been on the planet for quite some time and seen plenty of the history of reality.)

Originally Posted by Clinte89

... I cant imagine why they think mentally ill people are dangerous I just wonder where they get these ideas..

.
That one's easy. Take ignorance. Add media sensationalism.
I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single case of any other kind of medical condition they do that with (in regards to violence).

Originally Posted by Clinte89

Im not a gun owner and never would as I can be a danger to myself and I know that...

Same here. So it's not as if I have any vested interest in the issue of gun ownership.

(Sorry so long --even for me, lol. These kinds of things really fry my bacon.)

[usbusi]

The NRA blames everything and everyone but themselves for the problem. And probably the large majority of the killers would not be on the list.

[manicminer]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

i think this idea is a bit over the top... don't you think?

for 1, i know i wouldn't wanted to be listed pubblickly on such a data base, and secondly, it wouldn't exactly be very good for our reputation- and will just increase stigma

Well of course it is. Like to throw a little satire in for comedic relief

[manicminer]

Thank you all so much for your wonderful input!

I knew this would be hot subject and that's exactly why I posted the thread. I don't have the "stir the pot" icon in my signature just for looks. hehehehe

[cocoabeans]

Ideas like that, news reports (not just the recent shooting) and comments from the general population in the discussion fields, other media and the attitudes of doctors and other health care professionals Ive seen is one motivating factor for me to stay away from going back on medications. The last thing I want is records following me with a mental illness label while our world goes to hell. Right now it would take some digging to get at that evidence but as technology advances our health care records will start following us, and thats fine but not when the negative changes start happening. Not when the violent crimes continue increasing and the medicalized motives keep catching on.

I don't want to be on any list when the sentiments become policy.

[manicminer]

Originally Posted by cocoabeans

Ideas like that, news reports (not just the recent shooting) and comments from the general population in the discussion fields, other media and the attitudes of doctors and other health care professionals Ive seen is one motivating factor for me to stay away from going back on medications. The last thing I want is records following me with a mental illness label while our world goes to hell. Right now it would take some digging to get at that evidence but as technology advances our health care records will start following us, and thats fine but not when the negative changes start happening. Not when the violent crimes continue increasing and the medicalized motives keep catching on.

I don't want to be on any list when the sentiments become policy.

I made the mistake of telling the Marines recruiter I went to in an attempt to sign up for Marine Officer School, that I was on medication. He asked what it was then what it was for. When I told him it was to treat bp, he said something like, "Well you came to see me so I'll still go through the rest of this information with you, but we can't take you if you're on medication for that. We don't need anybody flipping out and punching a drill seargent in the throat. If you can bring me a doctors slip that says you no longer need to be on medication, we'll get the paperwork started right away."

So no Marine Officer School and now I'm most likely flagged in the military and police communities. He had a bio card that we were filling out as we went and I saw him included this information on the card.

[Confusedinomicon]

I think they should focus on the disenfranchised and children who are bullied in elementary/middle/high school. I don't think it matters so much that they have a mental illness as much as these kids are tormented daily from other peers. There has to be a way to put them in programs where they feel safe and where they can work on social skills that they probably lack.

[venusss]

Absolutely bad idea... you wonder why people try to stay out of treatment?

(trivia: on US visa aplication there is question about mental health. I find it funny that having some mental quirk could result into getting denied visa to Prozac Nation... but for me "getting visas to countries" is at this point and may forever be priority to "getting treatment"...)

but sadly in this time horrible people like this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dj-jaf...b_2360876.html are getting voice. Trigger: stupid and ignorant article and scare mongering.

[wildchild r]

WOW! A BIT overboard I believe,If one hasn't committed a violent crime, then one should leagally be allowed own a firearm.

I belive the more legal guns a household is allowed, the less chances a perpatraitor will mess with you..(proven in other countries). It really depends on what kind of criminal history one has.
Unfourtunately, if a person wants a gun bad enough, they will find a way to get it..so now what??

Only about 7% of mentally ill patients ever seek help. So that leaves 93% of the mentally ill who would be unaccounted for in a database of the sort mentioned.
The 7% who do seek help are most likely the least ones in society to be violent.
They just know too much to resort to that sort of thing physically.

I guess the writers must be assigned articles to write and search for ideas which are
sometimes ludicrous.

The statement about being in Germany during the Hitler regime is very applicable
to the idea of database for patients with mental illness. Ridiculous, in my view.

[bluemountains]

Also, with this database, think about the job implications. Besides the military, there would probably be a list of jobs that would not be available to those in the database. Plus, doctors are bound to confidentiality, so would the list come from insurance companies? After that, no job, no insurance. All of these thoughts are very scary.
Bluemountains

[Gaijin]

I'm a long-term gun-owner and hunter, and diagnosed Bipolar II. My state doesn't require a CCW permit, and I often carry a gun for protection.

I used to be an NRA member for years, but quit a while back because I was tired of their extremist talk and constant "crises" fund-raising letters and calls. Also, I'm not pleased that their president pulls down $1 million per year salary.

This latest extreme position ensures that I'll never rejoin.

[BipolaRNurse]

Same here.

[Gaijin]

Current federal affidavit required for gun purchase in the US:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[manicminer]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Current federal affidavit required for gun purchase in the US:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

I check NO to 11. f. every time as it in no way applies to my situation.

[BipolaRNurse]

WTF does "adjudicated mentally defective" mean??! Like a judge has to declare you incompetent to make your own decisions, or merely that a doctor has diagnosed you with a psychiatric condition? Damn straight I'd check "NO" on that one, too. I'm bipolar, not crazy!!