A Little Help, Please, Leed

Leed, you've been through the 12-step program for alcohol addiction remission, and I think from my reading that sugar sensitivity is very close to an alcoholic addiction. I've read that it's even a drug that is narcotic in its effects on the opiate receptors in the brain. Do you think that the 12-step program would work for sugar addiction?

I believe that I have it and want to know what your recommendations are
for giving it up completely. It sounds easy to do, but it really isn't when one has a sensitivity to it.

Since you're an RN I feel that you must know some secrets that will help those of
us who have a problem with sugar and/or grains. (Giving up grains wasn't difficult
at all, but the sugar thing is another story.)

Give us some advice please. I know that there must be more than one
of us here who has a problem with sugar and/or grain addiction.

The weight programs are not for me. I need the self-help list to get this thing under strong control. I've been told that if you can get sugar out of the system for 7 days, it is no longer difficult to manage. Is that medically correct?

I've read Kathleen DesMaissons book called "The Sugar Addict's Complete Recovery Program" and it's very good, but she advises to be gentle with ourselves, and I need to get tough with myself about this.

Thanks for all the information you will provide.

Genetic

You're specifically asking Leed for advice, but the post is public, so I'll just add my 2 cents.

I think like most things (except maybe heroin...) it's all good in moderation.

The vast majority of doctors out there would say there is no need to cut these (sugar and grains) entirely out of your diet.

I've worked many times with nutritionists as part of my job. Even diabetics are allowed grains (which is converted into sugar), in moderation, but allowed. In nutrition counseling for the obese (and many of these people also suffer from depression) they are never told to entirely cut out sugar or grains. Again, it's a matter of moderation.

This all comes from specialists at one of the top hospitals in the country.

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'sensitivity' to sugar, but I suppose if that's the case, then cutting it down may do the trick. Obviously easier said than done, any diet restriction is, but like with most things in life, I don't think it's an all or nothing issue. Good luck!

Thanks for the information, Ultramar.

I believe that sugar sensitivity is an inherited, genetic thing, honestly.
At least, that is the way Dr. Kathleen Desmaissons sees it in one of
her books called The Sugar Addict's Complete Recovery Program (or
something similar). I base my personal situation largely on her knowledge
and experience with recovering alcoholics. (She is the first woman to
be awarded a PhD in addictive nutrition, and she's recognized for her extraordinary skill in achieving success in helping alcoholics go into remission from alcoholism).

Secondly, it isn't so much the fact that grains are converted into glucose
that is the problem. It has been known for years that genetic alteration
of gluten in wheat, barley, and rye has significantly more chromosomes that convert into exorphins (which act on the opiate centers of the brain) and cause very serious conditions for people sensitive to them. Duke University has released one schizophrenic patient who had wheat removed from her diet and she recovered completely and was considered cured.

It's those components that make me think it's best to get sugar and
grains out of the diet for me. Sugar has no nutritive value and is
recognized as a "depressive narcotic". At least two doctors now have
written about the fact that bipolar patients may have a serious grain allergy. From that perspective, I tend to think it's best for me not to consider grains as part of my diet--at least not wheat, barley, or rye which all contain gluten.

If the vast majority of doctors do not recommend removing sugar and
gluten-containing grains from the diet, I think it must be that they do not
know the inherent dangers of those two substances in the diets of people who are sensitive to them.

Though known for many years, the role of exorphins in gluten and the
re-engineering of gluten a couple of decades ago have make a re-appearance now that has at least one Best Seller on the New York List: Dr. David Williams' Wheat Belly.

Reading as I have about these two topics leads me to believe that
the federal government's recommended diet "triangle" is way off based
on new findings regarding gluten-containing grains. At least that's the
view of Dr. Williams' research in the matter.

Leed, do you think the 12-step program for Alcoholics Anonymous would
work here, too?

The requirement for AA is "a desire to stop drinking." I'm not sure how you'd be received in AA, or how much you'd get out of meetings. It's not an "exclusive club," but AA specifically wouldn't suit your needs. Here in the city where I live there's a chapter of Overeaters Anonymous...which follows a 12 step program. I don't know where you live, but the 12 step programs have been used to fight a great number of self-defeating habits. Good luck in your efforts.

Thanks, Emgreen, but I wouldn't be part of Alcoholics Anonymous. I would be simply using the 12-step program to get sugar out of my system on a permanent basis by following the 12 steps, and I have a list of those at my home from the "Big Book" which I have read for interest in the subject.

Diet has so much to do with this illness for me and has been so effective in enabling me to lower medication dosage and even to remove the mood stabilizers (which
caused very undesirable side effects) that I want to dig a little deeper and see what
happens with sugar sensitivity treatment on my own.

Thanks for the advice, though.

What has struck me as extremely important is knowing that Duke University was
able to release a schizophrenic patient who had suffered a long time with her illness
but recovered completely with the removal of wheat from her diet. (See Dr. Williams'
Wheat Belly.)

Sorry about the misunderstanding, genetic. I spoke out of turn.

Someone on this forum tried a gluten-free diet for her son and he did not recover from schizophrenia. I think you have to take it as a case by case study and not an absolute.

Alcohol also has sugar in it. I can see why the doctor would suggest getting rid of it in a diet.

Not at all, Emgreen. I appreciated your response, and it led me to the
12-step Program of Overeaters Anonymous (which is identical to the
12-step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous; in fact, OA's 12-step was
written with permission from AA's officials.

Gen

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I don't know, Confusedinomicon, if the schizophrenic Duke released was
affected by gluten or some other components in wheat not yet identified.
Dr. Williams didn't speak to that subject, but he recognizes that the
more they delve into the problem of wheat, the worse the situation becomes.

All cases are idiocyncratic, in my view. In fact, I think I've stated so
many times that if one is sensitive to grains containing gluten or has
a sugar sensitivity, then the problem can become acute.

The same thing applies to Bipolar Illness, as well; everyone seems to have
different responses to meds, treatment, therapy, etc.

When I wrote this thread I was indicating specifically that the problem
of sugar sensitivity is one I want to correct for myself. Many of you may
not have it at all. By the same token, many bipolar patients tend to use
alcohol as a self-medication effort. I think they are probably told to
leave alcohol alone when they see psychiatrists. (I was told that before the psychiatrist even knew that I didn't drink alcohol.) But, boy, can I
use sugar!

So-oo-o I'm on a search to learn how to get it out of my system and keep it out.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

By the way, everyone, a book was published years ago called Brain Allergy, I believe, in which the doctor who wrote it describes how our brains can be affected by things that we have "cerebral allergies" to.

I haven't read it but think that I will. (I've often thought that psychiatrists should order a full allergist's set of tests done on each patient soon after establishing the nature of the patient's illness. )

I was particularly glad to see that Speed's psychiatrist just recently has directed her to stop the use of gluten, and, I think, maybe some other things.

Anyway, let's hope psychiatry catches up with cerebral allergies and what they are capable of doing in bipolar illness.

I think following the Principles of any 12 Step program can beneficial to anyone even Alanon follows the 12 Steps.
Alcoholism is considered an "allergy" as published in the Big Book, and like you said is converted to sugar. I'm not saying AA meetings, but you didn't say meetings, just reading, right?
I think reading up on it will help genetic. It surely can't hurt.

Not Leed either, but..my thoughts too.

My best,

I am gluten intolerant...it def makes my depression worse. I'd sit on the couch bawling for no reason when I would binge on gluten foods. I'd be interested in cutting out sugar too. I did atkins a few years ago where I avoided sugar and i felt amazing.

I seriously doubt the fact that Duke released one schizophrenic patient is headline news. Hospitals and doctors all over the country spout off all the "fantastic wonderful ground breaking news"

I hope you are able to quit sugar like you have grains and things and be another healthy choice for you.

Good luck

Thanks so much, folks. I'm going to get out my "Big Book" and start to work after
tomorrow. (Have guests coming for dinner and can't start with guests here for the
evening.)

I know it's going to be hard, but it needs to be done; so that's it.