[Miracle1986]

My psychiatrist finally dx'ed me with Bipolar type 2 after I told him that everyone who knows me knows I am bipolar; even family who doesnt see me very often.

[kaliope]

isn't it a relief to finally have a diagnosis? now you have the arduous task of finding the right medications. hopefully it will go quickly for you. it sounds like you are happy with this diagnosis. welcome to the world of bipolar.

[venusss]

I hope he did some more testing then "everybody knows" referal.

[Miracle1986]

yes it is a relief, it is so nice to be listened to and actually HEARD because in the beginning, my psychiatrist said I just had uni-polar depression because my manic "don't really last long enough. Usually they last from a couple hours to all day... but sometimes I rapid cycle and it (my mania) only lasts a few minutes, which he said was "very atypical" because "usually mania lasts longer."

He just asked me my symptoms and stuff and with the new info he said it definitely sounded like type 1 Bipolar instead of uni-polar depression which he said is often misdiagnosed because of the depressive states of it. But because I am having major mood swings and stuff, he diagnosed me as Bipolar.

[venusss]

Not to doubt your diagnosis.... but if it lasts few minutes... to a day... is it that big of a problem? In what way?

Could there be a trigger to it? How is your eating and drinking?

[Miracle1986]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Not to doubt your diagnosis.... but if it lasts few minutes... to a day... is it that big of a problem? In what way?

Could there be a trigger to it?

yes it is a problem because it hinders my life. It makes things harder than they should be. And the major mood swings is a major problem too. I can go from happy/manic to bawling my eyes out, or pissed and ready to destroy something in a few seconds. There doesn't have to be any trigger.

Frankly, it sounds more like a personality disorder than it does Bipolar illness type II, unless you could possibly be an ultradian bipolar (very rapid cycles, within minutes or hours of each other).

It really doesn't sound like bipolar I unless you are experiencing manic,
psychotic episodes. You've mentioned bipolar I and II; which one is the official
diagnosis? No discussion of mixed or ultradian cycling?

Very strange situation in my view.

[middlepath]

The symptoms that you are experiencing are unusual for BP. there must be more to it, maybe some things that you shared with your pdoc that pointed him/her to thinking it was BP rather than borderline personality disorder. Do you experience euphoric feelings? I know that can be one of the things that help determine one from the other.

Whatever it is, if you feel good about the DX, then I am happy for you. I hope your road to less difficult living is easy to navigate : )...mine has been long with lots of twists and turns but has finally evened out (knock on wood).

[Victoria'smom]

It sounds like your in a mixed state which is not uncommon when given solely an anti-depressant. Hopefully with a mood stabilizer, therapy and a lifestyle change things will inprove. Welcome

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Miracle1986

yes it is a problem because it hinders my life. It makes things harder than they should be. And the major mood swings is a major problem too. I can go from happy/manic to bawling my eyes out, or pissed and ready to destroy something in a few seconds. There doesn't have to be any trigger.

I apologize if this comes off as invalidating, but quite frankly, bipolar episodes just don't last this long. 'Rapid cycling' refers to 4 or more episodes a year, not for a few minutes, hours, or a day, it's just not how it works.

It's possible you occasionally have longer episodes, it's possible this is why the pdoc diagnosed you, but what you are experiencing minute by minute, hour by hour, is most likely situational (sometimes it's hard to recognize triggers, it takes a lot of practice, and often therapy) *and/or* a more global (as opposed to bipolar/episodic) mood dysregulation issue.

These are vital distinctions, because the treatments are often very different, and the important thing is that you receive the treatment you need so you can get better.

I don't know if there's more to this than you have described, but a responsible pdoc will not diagnose someone based on what the patient says others think they have, and especially since he has reasonably questioned the diagnosis up until you told this to him.

I would get a second opinion if I were you. I am usually very reluctant to say on here whether it seems someone has bipolar or not, or at least not with certainty, but what you are describing does not appear to be bipolar disorder -at least not the day-to-day stuff.

There is a great deal of diversity as far as how different people experience bipolar disorder, it can differ a good deal. However, there are certain things, certain criteria, that -despite other differences- really do need to be met.

I wish you the best of luck in your treatment and healing.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

It sounds like your in a mixed state which is not uncommon when given solely an anti-depressant. Hopefully with a mood stabilizer, therapy and a lifestyle change things will inprove. Welcome

Mixed states can of course include extra energy and irritability and sadness, etc., hence mixed --*but* this type of episode as a whole does, like other types, need to last for a period of time.

From the Current Psychiatry Journal: The DSM-IV defines a mixed episode as a period of at least 1 week in which the criteria for both a major depressive episode (MDE) and a manic episode are met nearly every day.

[Victoria'smom]

What was describe seems like a very long lasting episode with no relief meeting both manic and depressive symptoms, most likely it's due to an antidepressant. My husband went through this for years due to a ****** pdoc and solely anti depressants. When mentioning the manic issues the crappy pdoc said things like "he needs anger management", "This is the best that we can hope for" and all types of BS.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

What was describe seems like a very long lasting episode with no relief meeting both manic and depressive symptoms, most likely it's due to an antidepressant. My husband went through this for years due to a ****** pdoc and solely anti depressants. When mentioning the manic issues the crappy pdoc said things like "he needs anger management", "This is the best that we can hope for" and all types of BS.

My understanding is that the OP is on a mood stabilizer, but for another condition.

As you discovered with your husband, his psychiatrist made a mistake and his anger issues are attributed to bipolar disorder.

So this is not the case for your husband, but I have found that many people will try to attribute 'anger issues' to anything and everything except -anger issues. It makes sense because of course it's going to be mortifying, make people feel badly about themselves, push people away, etc. Again, not the case with your husband, obviously, but this is something I have observed.

Re OP, I don't know why this psychiatrist finally gave in, but if you ask any reputable psychiatrist out there if such a pattern constitutes bipolar disorder, they will say, simply, no. There is no such thing as ultra-ultra-ultra-rapid cycling to the point of changing moods by the minute and hour. Whatever it is, it is an entirely different phenomenon, with different characteristics and treatment and outlook, etc. There is sooo much misinformation out there, in the media, everywhere, it can get very frustrating sometimes.

[Secretum]

Ultramar, I don't know if the OP is bipolar or not. But I can tell you, as someone who has cycled within minutes, that there is such a thing as "ultra-ultra-ultra rapid cycling". Google the term "ultradian cycling bipolar". You will find research articles on bipolar that cycles within a 24 hour period. It is not typical or common, but it DOES happen.

According to the DSM, you're right. A depressive episode must last 2 weeks, a hypomanic episode 4 days, and a manic episode 1 week. But the DSM is far from perfect. When I was first diagnosed, I told the doctor that I didn't think I was bipolar because I cycled too quickly. Her reply? "Not everyone's body conforms to the DSM".

My psychiatrist has told me that I have a "cyclothymic temperament" on top of my bipolar disorder. This makes me susceptible to frequent mood swings, and gives me a very complex cycling pattern. I have depressions that last for months, but during a typical day of depression I will experience tiny pockets of elevated (even to the point of being hypomanic) mood. Perhaps the OP has a similar situation.

I have been evaluated by 4 psychiatrists. They all agree that I'm bipolar. When I ask them if I'm borderline, they look at me funny. I'm clearly bipolar and I have cycled very quickly.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Secretum

Ultramar, I don't know if the OP is bipolar or not. But I can tell you, as someone who has cycled within minutes, that there is such a thing as "ultra-ultra-ultra rapid cycling". Google the term "ultradian cycling bipolar". You will find research articles on bipolar that cycles within a 24 hour period. It is not typical or common, but it DOES happen.

According to the DSM, you're right. A depressive episode must last 2 weeks, a hypomanic episode 4 days, and a manic episode 1 week. But the DSM is far from perfect. When I was first diagnosed, I told the doctor that I didn't think I was bipolar because I cycled too quickly. Her reply? "Not everyone's body conforms to the DSM".

My psychiatrist has told me that I have a "cyclothymic temperament" on top of my bipolar disorder. This makes me susceptible to frequent mood swings, and gives me a very complex cycling pattern. I have depressions that last for months, but during a typical day of depression I will experience tiny pockets of elevated (even to the point of being hypomanic) mood. Perhaps the OP has a similar situation.

I have been evaluated by 4 psychiatrists. They all agree that I'm bipolar. When I ask them if I'm borderline, they look at me funny. I'm clearly bipolar and I have cycled very quickly.

This makes a lot of sense to me and I'm really glad you shared it. It sounds like the cyclothymic temperament on top of the bipolar makes it pretty unique, and as you say very complex

[Fuzzybear]

.....

[Speed3]

It fits the definition of a mixed episode.. Experiencing the symptoms of Mania and Depression either simultaneously or in rapid succession. Also, they now say Borderline Personality is a form of Bipolar and medication wise is treated very similarly.

I have a lot of mixed episodes as I have reached menopause. I most definitely and with no doubt have Bipolar 1.

[ultramar]

This is off-topic, but BPD and BP are two completely different things. The one thing they have in common is mood dysregulation and, usually not always, depression. However duration is very different, and full-blown mania is not seen in BPD. Also BPD is characterized by a lot of interpersonal issues (which also tend to trigger intense and often short-lived mood swings). It's more complicated than this, but in brief, they have things in common, yes, but are ultimately very different animals altogether.

[Speed3]

Originally Posted by ultramar

This is off-topic, but BPD and BP are two completely different things. The one thing they have in common is mood dysregulation and, usually not always, depression. However duration is very different, and full-blown mania is not seen in BPD. Also BPD is characterized by a lot of interpersonal issues (which also tend to trigger intense and often short-lived mood swings). It's more complicated than this, but in brief, they have things in common, yes, but are ultimately very different animals altogether.

Yes they are, one a personality disorder the other a mood disorder. But if you look at medication used in borderline you will see mood stabilizers, and anti- psychotics. Full blown mania is not seen in bipolar 2. Like I said if you read the latest on borderline they are thinking about classifying it as a variant of bipolar disorder.

Within bipolar disorder there are many variants as many members on here can attest. Two years ago I spent 2 weeks at John Hopkins Hospital, number one in the country for bipolar. My doctor DR. Karen Swartz MD is head of the bipolar unit. She was my doctor and said in 20 years I was the worst case of rapid cycling Bipolar 1 she had ever seen. She suspected this was due in part to the fact I was given antidepressants too many times. I am 57 and had my first episode at 15. The rapid cycling started about 9 years ago. She also mentioned that ultra ultra rapid cycling bipolar does exist. Again usually the misuse of anti depressants is to blame.

I think on some levels the lines are blurred. And if you are ultimately
taking about getting the right medication based on a BP or BPD diagnosis you are probably ok. Just watch the antidepressants if you are bipolar.

[wotchermuggle]

^^^^ Anti-depressants can definitely make things worse. I was having a terrible time when my Pdoc first tried me on Effexor.