[melbykins7676]

Hello everyone!

I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder in 2005 but have only had the mild manic episodes. It's mostly been severe depression and I haven't been able to get stabilized on meds. My family and friends have noticed tendencies of Borderline Personality Disorder in me, but I can't get my doctor to notice or help me. He refuses to change my diagnosis, and I can't get on the right meds, if this is what this is.

What should I do? I have a limitation of doctors, because of my insurance, so it's hard to find someone new. How do I make him understand that my diagnosis may have changed?

Thanks

Melissa

[jesusplay]

Does any of your family or friends have a M.D. or Ph.D?

[venusss]

Do OP's and family spend only 15 minutes on med check with them?

Don't underestimate observant friends.

[Lonely_90]

As I've read their is no real medication for BPD, Only mood stabalizers. I would seek someone who specialises in DBT therapy

[PrairieCat]

Originally Posted by melbykins7676

Hello everyone!

I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder in 2005 but have only had the mild manic episodes. It's mostly been severe depression and I haven't been able to get stabilized on meds. My family and friends have noticed tendencies of Borderline Personality Disorder in me, but I can't get my doctor to notice or help me. He refuses to change my diagnosis, and I can't get on the right meds, if this is what this is.

What should I do? I have a limitation of doctors, because of my insurance, so it's hard to find someone new. How do I make him understand that my diagnosis may have changed?

Thanks

Melissa

Melissa,
I had almost the same thing occur, but my doctor would not BELIEVE me.
I may start a Bipolar Blog and that is what inspired me to do so. This is what I have written in my blog draft: "LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS ABOUT YOUR TREATMENT If a psychiatrist, counselor or case manager makes you uncomfortable for any reason, first make an effort to talk frankly to him or her about this, if possible. You may have to really assert yourself to do this. You have the right to proper treatment, for someone to really listen to you, believe you and act on your concerns. You have the right to complain to the proper authority or authorities if necessary. This authority would be a medical director of a hospital, clinic, practice, or the director of regional services for the corporation, the operations manager – or simply the individual who is the owner, or possibly another authority. It would be a good idea to check out the “who and how” of this initially just in case you ever need this information. Do not forget that you also have the right to find another doctor and simply leave. Try to find a new doctor before you leave if possible. This issue may not occur in your case at all. It happened to me and that is the only reason I mention this. It most likely may never happen to you." (end of my blog draft statement)
Yes, I know there can be problems finding the right doctor because of insurance. You have until Dec. 7 to change your insurance. Check with your doctor (not in your case), friends, pharmacists on what insurance might be better for you. You might want to call your insurance co. first to see who else they recommend. Also, your local hospital might have an outpatient psychiatrist. I will add this onto my blog draft, so thanks for that.
PrairieCat

Not sure if I am correct in my assumption here but he might not want to change your diagnosis cos of insurance reasons. That seems to be why so many people are misdiagnosed as BP, just so the docs can get the money out of the insurance companies.

Look into it by yourself. If you think you have BPD then find treatments you can do in your own time or with the help of your T. Your treatment plan should not be entirely up to your pdoc. DBT is brilliant for BPD and is starting to be more widely used and recognised as a treatment - even more effective than meds for many people! I am sure you can find some resources online to help you in your own time.

Goodluck

What kind of doctor is this? Borderline can really only be diagnosed through therapy sessions... Really getting to know you, how you respond to others & form relationships with them. That's probably why BP is your dx as of now -- the mood episodes are what have been paramount, no?

It doesn't matter if your mania is mild, though, or that you typically stick in depression. A lot of people with type 2 or cyclothymia go through that experience... If you can't switch doctors, at least convince him to help you find someone to help your depression. If meds aren't doing anything, you shouldn't have to keep taking them! I'd try to find a therapist. PhD, preferably, as they're qualified to make diagnoses.

[Yoda]

Perhaps it would help if you started a mood diary and then shared it with your pdoc.

[Anneinside]

There really aren't special medications for BPD. Since mood problems are also part of borderline, mood stabilizers are usually given along with Dialectic Behavior Therapy. What makes you think you have borderline. In general, bipolar centers on energy - the high of (hypo)mania and the low of depression; while borderline centers on unstable relationships.

[A Red Panda]

If you really want to talk about it, could you ask any of your friends and family members to write down observations of your behaviour? You could take those in with you and give it to your pdoc and go 'This is why I'm wondering about this. Can we go over these, or can you at least go over these, so that we can discuss it more next time?"

[Wildfiregirl]

You're correct! Look, I'm bipolar 1 with psychosis and borderline personality desorder! They are alike, but bpd the mood swings are erratic and all the time, basically are the same meds, but, psycology is the best for both, conduct treatments

[Fuzzybear]

[PrairieCat]

Originally Posted by Lonely_90

As I've read their is no real medication for BPD, Only mood stabalizers. I would seek someone who specialises in DBT therapy

Hi!
Do you remember where you read that, that there's no medication for bipolar, just mood disorder meds??? I have been wondering about that for a long time. Right now I am going off of a mood stabilizer that causes me to be itchy all over and have a rash. Others have caused me to have even worse side effects, and I mean really bad ones. I cannot take a higher antidepressant dosage because it is dangerous for me. Depression is my main problem.
I love your Bob Marley quotes! Sounds like he went through a lot.
PrairieCat

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by melbykins7676

My family and friends have noticed tendencies of Borderline Personality Disorder in me

The solution to your problem is easy, you need new friends and family. How is it that your friends and family are more qualified than a licensed medical professional to make such a decision? Why would you believe them over your doctor? I can only concluded you have no faith or trust in your doctor. What is it that you don't agree with? Is it simply because he hasn't been able to stabilize you? What medications have you tried?

The following resource can help you understand the differences between borderline and bipolar disorder: Borderline or Bipolar or both?

[venusss]

Originally Posted by nbritton

The solution to your problem is easy, you need new friends and family. How is it that your friends and family are more qualified than a licensed medical professional to make such a decision? Why would you believe them over your doctor? I can only concluded you have no faith or trust in your doctor. What is it that you don't agree with? Is it simply because he hasn't been able to stabilize you? What medications have you tried?

The following resource can help you understand the differences between borderline and bipolar disorder: Borderline or Bipolar or both?

Again, spending more then 15 minutes on medcheck with OP, in real life situation... would probably make them more prone to make observations.

Ditching a doctor that will not listen is easier and healthier then ditching friends and family. MD degree doesn't make you God, ffs.

Seriously, 8 years should be enough to see some progress. If there isn't, there might as well be other issue and should be explored further. So I see it as pretty valid reason not to have any faith in such doctor and offering that friends and family (that may or may not be helpful... I can't determine that from the OP, so I leave it be) should be ditched in his favour... is somewhat strange suggestion and in no way "easy solution".

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Again, spending more then 15 minutes on medcheck with OP, in real life situation... would probably make them more prone to make observations.

Ditching a doctor that will not listen is easier and healthier then ditching friends and family. MD degree doesn't make you God, ffs.

I was just referring to her friends and family being mean, they're implying she has a defect within her mind (borderline personality disorder), rather then a defect within her brain (bipolar disorder). They're not qualified to make this distinction, I think it's presumptuous.

You're right about the 15 minute med checks, reconsidering this, I'd say she should start seeing a clinical psychologist (Ph.D.). They will be able to confirm a diagnosis.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by nbritton

I was just referring to her friends and family being mean, they're implying she has a defect within her mind (borderline personality disorder), rather then a defect within her brain (bipolar disorder). They're not qualified to make this distinction, I think it's presumptuous.

You're right about the 15 minute med checks, reconsidering this, I'd say she should start seeing a clinical psychologist (Ph.D.). They will be able to confirm a diagnosis.

Maybe they weren't mean, but helpful. And why can't normal person make distinction, or suggest they think so? People guess what others may be experiencing all the time. Let's see, I caugh and caugh. Go to doctor, they make some stupid diagnosis of let's say flu. My friend, who experienced something simmilar says "that is not a flu!". Is that friend mean or out of the line? After all, when it comes to MH, it's about self-reporting and observing. There's no tests for "brain defect" (I am actually offended by this, bipolar with borderline traits... I am not "defective" and my brain if intact... brain/mind distinction is kinda unhelpful, as they are interconnected). And again, if their "defect" is in brain rather then mind, shouldn't 8 years of med attempts fixed it?

DependING how they mean it... but it could very well be a helpful suggestion. And if more people says it? There might be something about it.


(and hey, many of us here went to doctor and came to our diagnosis with help of observant friends, who knew something is not right).

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Maybe they weren't mean, but helpful. And why can't normal person make distinction, or suggest they think so? People guess what others may be experiencing all the time. Let's see, I caugh and caugh. Go to doctor, they make some stupid diagnosis of let's say flu. My friend, who experienced something simmilar says "that is not a flu!". Is that friend mean or out of the line? After all, when it comes to MH, it's about self-reporting and observing. There's no tests for "brain defect" (I am actually offended by this, bipolar with borderline traits... I am not "defective" and my brain if intact... brain/mind distinction is kinda unhelpful, as they are interconnected). And again, if their "defect" is in brain rather then mind, shouldn't 8 years of med attempts fixed it?

DependING how they mean it... but it could very well be a helpful suggestion. And if more people says it? There might be something about it.


(and hey, many of us here went to doctor and came to our diagnosis with help of observant friends, who knew something is not right).

Seriously? By definition, a personality disorder is a defect of the mind. Are you going to argue with me that a person suffering from psychosis after unwittingly taking a steroid based compound has a mental disorder, rather than a brain disorder? What about someone suffering from an endocrine disorder that presents as a mental disorder? The pathology and delineation between mind, brain, and body is not always clear; I've made a deliberate error in my example above, do you see it? The presenting symptoms of bipolar and borderline personality disorder overlap considerably, friends and family do not, typically, have the medical training necessary to do a differential diagnosis. It most certainly can take 8 years to find the right treatment.

I still stand by my previous opinion that she should see a clinical psychologist.

[venusss]

She indeed should.

But that is not to dismiss observations of family and friends.

Yeah, I see you the error, borderline is a personality disorder, not "defective mind" (which is offensive thing to say actually).

Aside from few expection when physicalities demonstrate in the "mind" (that still doesn't mean "defect in the brain")... I don't fall for the "broken brain" model. Most people improve when improving their overall lifes and ways of living and thinking. So it's so much more complex

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

She indeed should.

But that is not to dismiss observations of family and friends.

Yeah, I see you the error, borderline is a personality disorder, not "defective mind" (which is offensive thing to say actually).

Aside from few expection when physicalities demonstrate in the "mind" (that still doesn't mean "defect in the brain")... I don't fall for the "broken brain" model. Most people improve when improving their overall lifes and ways of living and thinking. So it's so much more complex

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so dismissive of observations of family and friends. These can often be valuable to a doctor during a medical evaluation, I would document them in a journal and bring them with.

I also did not mean to imply that someone with a personality disorder had a defective or broken mind. I'm thinking more along the lines of maladaptive coping skills, which may lead to personal problems that induce extreme anxiety, distress or depression. This is why DBT can be very effective in borderline personality disorder. However, with bipolar disorder, the source of the problem is often clearly biological, in that a patients symptoms resolve with medical treatment (i.e. psychiatry vs psychology). The trouble is there isn't a simple way to tell them apart, people suffering from bipolar disorder typically have difficulty in finding treatments that control their symptoms, but at the same time can also be seen to not be suffering from "maladaptive coping skills". Many times, as is your case, both are true. I can't think of a single person, myself included, that doesn't suffer from a few "maladaptive coping skills". The question is, does the original poster have enough of these "maladaptive coping skills" to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder? I think only a qualified medical professional can answer that question.

We most certainly are complex. I've never thought of myself as broken in the sense I think you're referring to. We're not "defective", we just have medical conditions.