why does it seem...

....that the non-medicated people on here seem more stable?

I think it's because most of them are more consistent in the things they do to treat their illness---exercise, diet, alternative therapies. Whereas you, my friend, have some real issues with staying on your meds, as I think most of us do from time to time. We forget that the meds only work when we're taking them. (I know, I've missed doses 2 days in a row.) And TBH, I don't think many of us who are medicated are really into things like yoga, acupuncture, botanicals, vitamins and such.

I'm sure I will be corrected by those who do do those things in addition to medication, and that's fine.

Maybe the people on meds had a more severe course of illness in the first place, which is why meds are necessary. Personally, i take meds, but i also try to be healthy - healthy diet, exercise, yoga, not drinking, and psychotherapy are all in addition to my meds. When i stop any of those things it catches up with me pretty quickly. For example, over the winter i was exercising less than once per week, and eating less fresh fruits and veggies. And i was more depressed. Now i'm back to better self care, and feeling over all better. But for me, currently, meds are required for my stability. I hope that isn't forever, but i don't know how things will be in the future. I was on no meds for a long time in my 20s, and quite stable. I think my illness has just progressed since then. Each mood episode makes the illness progressively more severe and difficult to treat. So i might not have needed meds then, but i do now, and if i was taking them then maybe things wouldn't have progressed. Anyways, it's all theoretical because things turned out how they did. I guess my point is that people may not need meds because their illness is less brittle.

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LOL well,I'm not hear to correct you but alternative treatments do compliment medications, whatever works !!!!

I managed without medication for several years...."managing" by changing my environment and withdrawing from society as required. But I use the word managed loosely. Ask my wife and she would probably use other words.

I have been back on medication now for near two years, and it has improved both my and our families quality of life.

You only live once...so do whatever it takes medication wise to have the best quality of life possible. Now, medicated, my wife would use the word manage, but I still control my environment and withdrawal from society as required...

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And that right there is invalidating, insulting and such a common ignorant misconception.

I'm not mad at you, its just that I knew that response was gonna be in this thread, it always comes up, and has caused heated arguments in the past.

Some of us were wearing chemical straight jackets and decided to disrobe, others try jackets of a different kind.

Truth is nobody knows why we're more stable unmedicated, and nobody wants to hear how sick pills made us.

And no, I don't want to get into it either, just thought I'd mention that I know the unmedicated folk quite well, and there's nothing mild about our bipolar, psychosis, delusions and suicidality are not mild symptoms I would think? But yes we do seem to have less frequent episodes than you guys, and that's exactly what keeps me off meds, knowing I was sicker on them...

Because their symptoms might not be as severe.... You can't really compare people with and without meds. What if meds are making someone who is SEVERELY schizophrenic, down to moderate schizophrenic symptoms but they still have to deal with that, which may seem bad off compared to someone who has more milder symptoms of schizophrenia and is doing better off because they are mild and they don't need the meds as badly

I won't say I'm stable based on how others see me, I just know that I don't want meds right now, I want a right to exercise that, and unless I have a really sudden moodswing ot delusional break, that I can't afford to give into moodswings as I need to be stable, but I don't want meds. Also ED issues mean I try to exercise as much as possible to exhaust myself, and usually express mania in delusions or constant reading etc, with depression I can just cry and sleep providing I dont' need to work. It's not really stability, it's just trying to find 'safer' times where I can be non-functioning. I don't know if this makes sense.

Along the lines of my life.....Unfortunately I reached a breaking point where I had no alternative but medication. ...but I agree, do as much as you can to help yourself first, then when or if you have to medicate your working with it and at least for me, i think it reduces the strength and amount of meds I have to take.

BUT everyone responds differently.....

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Hope I'm not making a bad judgement call with late night posting. Yes, when my inconsistent medicated butt should be sleeping… Lol.

I think there's a statistic-y thing at play too. Most people are way more likely to post (or even be active members) when they're in the midst of things/having problems. That's when we have questions and concerns after all, and this is a support group. More people are medicated here than not. By a large margin. So any other perception is pretty well inconceivable. But perception often does not accurately reflect reality.

Like... I'm medicated and have been pretty stable for a decent span of time. But I'm not writing about it (except right there of course, haha), so my experience wouldn't be reflected in the perception. The last time I was MAJORLY wonky was almost 2 years ago. Which isn't to say it's all been smooth sailing since. Because it hasn't, not by a long stretch! BUT. Quite a bit of what hasn't has been on account of situational stuff. Which isn't a fair measure of my meds ('cause if meds could fix the f'd up **** I have to deal with in my life, I'd go preachin' it on the street corners! ) Not that they don't help, because they do -- stable me deals with stuff better than unstable me.

Starting to ramble. Anyway, something to keep in mind.

Maybe the people on meds had a more severe course of illness I refuse to believe this.

More people are medicated here than not. What if that's not true. What if we kinda push them not to post because most of us are pro meds?

Thanks for this, everyone has been pushing me to take meds and yes they could potentially help, on the other hand I have to waitress full time and so far if I'm coping I'd rather try to get by without them until a potential day came where I have to take them. I like that idea that if I get my lifestyle in order first as well so that is healthy and I'm doing all I can there, then see how good/bad it is I guess... Sorry I'm sleepy.

I am 100X more stable on meds. Suffered horribly all my life (up to age 45) before diag. & treatment. I also do other things---try to eat right. Rarely drink alcohol. Rarely drink soda pop (but love chocolate). I walk, do yoga, enjoy writing clubs. Luckily, am in a good marriage which helps enormously

Starting a thread like this probably isn't going to help that matter.

There will always be those who insist on meds and insist they're right, and those who insist on no meds and insist they're right. In my opinion, the danger lies when people who are medicated feel like if this person can go off meds, so can I, and then the medicated person quits cold turkey.

The way to go off meds is responsibly, with the backing of a pdoc. Not everyone can do it. But that isn't a value judgement against those off meds or those on meds. Life is simply different for different people. It's not a race to see who is sickest.

Me starting this thread wasn't to start a problem just that it seems from non-medicated seem to post less or/and are more stable. So why?

I think this is a good thread that comes up pretty often .. and I for one am glad it does!

I am on a very tiny amount of a medication and plan to dc that one very soon .. But I have loaded up my tool box of coping skills to help myself stay safe and healthy . I try and keep my whole life healthy because it can make a difference for me.

I keep in touch with 3 people from PC daily that know me very very well and what I normally am like when I am doing fine .. If they notice something a bit off with me they are quick to point itout . I f need be I make safety contracts with them and follow through with it. I do a 10 second self check everyday to make sure I am doing okay. Then go about my day like normal.

I was 43 when I was diagnosed .. Before that I married had a child and just trudged through life . I thought everyone struggled like I did at times . Most people are bipolar long before they are diagnosed with it and the start of the "mystery drug cocktail" I have tried just about every medication out there and dismissed damn near all of then due to sideffects .. Weight , mental dullness, Oh the list goes on.

If I get into a episode that I cant seem to get myself out of I reach out for help.. But that hasnt happened in almost a year now .

I dont judge anyone on meds nor off them. Its whatever works for them.

It is a fact people post more threads if they are having problems that people do that are stable . It's the nature of the beast.

I am BP I and dont buy the BP II is a milder version .. Each one has the ability to wreck someones life .

Anyway thats my 2 cents.

I know for me, the main reason I came on here was to try and find answers. Answers about the medications that were recommended to me, to find out what other things I could do to help myself, and to talk to people who understood what I was going through without having to explain a whole lot of things people already understood.

So from my point of view, I was in the middle of a med change, was unstable at the time, and needed advice. Is there a chance that others who are in the middle of change are also the ones that ask the most questions? Whereas, most of us know that there is usually a concoction that does work, medications or no medication, therapy or no therapy, and once we find it we can maintain a sort of equilibrium.

I think the answer to your question is those who are in the middle of a crisis ask more questions, and medications changes cause more crisis (at least for me) which can be answered on here than someone who is initially diagnosed, and looking for more generalized advice?

Could be wrong, just my two cents worth and certainly not advocating medication or non medication. As I said in my original post - each individual reacts differently. So if your on meds, or not on meds., or simply here as a fact finding mission - hugs and kudos to you all

all I know is that on my current meds I am the best I have been in many years and very happy... works for me.

I can understand why the question is at first glance an interesting one. Iit is, however, a foolish question. It has no answer and is ultimately absolutely meaningless. You would have to track at least 100 people over at least a decade, on meds, off meds...even then there wouldn't be a clear answer to the the question. Some people would do well off meds, others better on meds and according to life experiences and biological stuff the percentage would change.

Would that it were that easy.

But isnt this forum all about others opinions and life experiences, rather than facts and reports?

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Maybe because they are stable.

Maybe because they are stable.

Then why?

Not a popular answer, but makes sense, less severe disease requires less intense treatments.

Why is this controversial and not intuitive?

Why is this controversial and not intuitive?

Because my illness never became worse it just was. Whether I was on meds or not.

But that assumes that those of us not on meds have a less severe disease. I'm not on meds at this point. I'm stable without them and my pdoc is okay with me being off of meds for the time being so long as he and my T are monitoring me for signs that I might being headed toward losing that stability. But my disease isn't any less severe. I've been hospitalized 15 times in the last 9 years. I wouldn't call that less severe. But one thing we know is that no medication has worked preventatively with me. Whether on meds or off (and always monitored either way), I've ended up in the hospital. The common belief that staying on lithium or lamictal or whatever would keep my condition from getting that bad just hasn't held true for me, so I have chosen, with my pdoc's support, to only take meds during an episode to shorten and lessen the duration. Staying on meds constantly when they do nothing to prevent or lessen the intensity of the episodes for me just made no sense.

When I am stable, which is the majority of the time, I am very high functioning. I work full time in a job I've had now for 29 years. I am able to function beautifully without need of medication most of the time. I do go into episodes once every 9 months or so now. The episodes have actually become less frequent off medication than they were on medication, so that has worked well for me. But my episodes when they do occur are every bit as severe as anyone else's, require some meds to pull me out of them, and sometimes hospitalization is needed.

Despite my many hospitalizations though, I do consider myself mostly very stable probably 85-90% of the time. But I have worked extremely hard in therapy to learn ways to manage my symptoms in healthy ways, I work consistently with my pdoc and T, always honest with them and follow what they ask me to do. When I'm on meds, I don't play around with them. I follow directions, and when it's time for a change, it only happens after discussion with my pdoc so we are always on the same page.

It isn't a matter of severity of a person's illness. It is a matter of how each individual responds to meds. As we all know here, no two of us have quite the same response to meds, and part of finding stability is finding what does work and then being consistent about it. If meds worked well for me and prevented the frequency and severity of episodes, trust me, I'd be on them consistently, but that just isn't my experience.