[Maddie_Anne]

Hi i'm here because I've been d/xd with BPD which has mood swings like bipolar, but I feel like I might have that as well. Past psychologists who worked a lot with me were sure I was bipolar, but I feel like now they have d/xd me with BPD the psychiatrists (who are the diagonistitions even though they've worked with me less than the psychologist) are now washing their hands of me. Sometimes when I'm very up I seem hypermanic though, and I've had people who are bipolar say that to me and the psychologist has seen me up while the psuchiatrist has only heard it second hand. Plus I think the psychatrist takes what I'm saying with a grain of salt because of the whole BPD thing? But when I look back from my chat logs when I'm up they are basically indistinguishable because I'm talking so fast and making very little sense, and I'm basically not sleeping at that time, I feel very confident, I am very creative I can't sit still ect. The ups ususally are quite common and only last three four days rather than the longer time that is typical for bipolar but I know it can last longer and I took the bipolar quiz on here which scored me a 54. I'm not doubting I am BPD by the way, I was just looking for anyone who has been d/xed or someone who knows if they can both exist at once - or anything like that? Thanks in advance and sorry for spamming your group -
Maddie

Yes, you can be diagnosed with both disorders. I have ultra rapid cycles which means my ups and downs change/switch every 3-4 days.

If you don't feel like you're being well treated by your mental health providers, time to find a "new set of eyes".

[Maddie_Anne]

Mine do that too AlwaysChanging - and I find it difficult to switch because of the way the NHS is/ Thanks for replying

[quasicrystalline]

Bipolar and borderline share a lot of characteristics, and BPD can be very, very, very hard to distinguish from rapid cycling bipolar. Rapid cycling most commonly occurs in women with bipolar II. There is also a higher rate of BPD with bipolar II. That's not to say rapid cycling and BPD never occur in bipolar I —they definitely can and do. BPD with bipolar II, though, is a hard diagnosis to reach. Full blown mania is pretty hard to hide, but hypomania can be elusive and subtle. It doesn't have to last as long either. Hypomania needs to last for at least four days to meet the clinical diagnosis level, which is three days shorter than the requirement for mania (one week).

This probably isn't want you want to hear, but do you have any friends or family members who've perhaps witnessed you hypomanic? A lot of times with bipolar disorder some doctors don't put much stock into what patients say, because we all seemingly lack insight. B********, I know. I personally didn't get a proper diagnosis for years because I'm apparently high-functioning (don't feel like it) and generally do have some insight (the great exception being when severely manic or severely depressed). I was good at faking normal, so they'd look at me like I was nuts if I disclosed any serious symptoms. I've also had some anxiety issues since I was a kid, so they thought perhaps I was just nervous about my symptoms. I could see how they might make the same kind of assumption when they've diagnosed you with BPD...

[Maddie_Anne]

i literally have a psychologist whose seen me up and then went around and said i'd say you were bipolar, but becuase psychiatrists only listen to themselves and psychologists here can't d/x anything that's no use at all. besides that psychaitrist has moved on now, and with him has gone the person pushing to get me serious care, because all the other people seem to do is think oh she's so emotional. Also 'high-functioning' and with insight over here. Basically don't think they'll listen regardless, because they've d/xed me now and made up their minds it's more for my own piece of mind. Thanks for all your help!

[Resident Bipolar]

Opinions will vary from psychiatrist to psychiatrist. No diagnosis should be an opinion but when it comes to mental illness, it usually is - Psychiatry and Psychology are not exact sciences and are more fields of educated guesses, mostly due to the lack of physical evidence. With physcial conditions (such as arthritis, hypertension, cardiac arrhythmia, cancer, ventricular fibrillation etc) there is clear diagnostic evidence that can be obtained through simple tests (blood tests, ECGs, MRI & CT scans, lumbar punctures etc). Mental illness however are diagnosed according to behavioural patterns and due to the vast amount of mental illnesses and conditions, symptoms often overlap.

The best way to get a more accurate diagnosis is to get a second opinion - one from two different psychiatrists. If two psychiatrists say the same thing, you can be more sure of the diagnoses. If the opinions differ, you either get a third opinion (which is often difficult) or you can ask one or both psychiatrists to reconsider. If two psychiatrists say one diagnoses, and a third says something different, you can go for the majority.

BPD and Bipolar are the two conditions which are most often misdiagnosed because they are so similar and it can be difficult for a psychiatrist to conclusively differentiate between the two. I have reassurance of my Bipolar Diagnoses because my behaviours were recorded over the course of four years by the mental health team before I was diagnosed, and my disorder wasn't diagnosed until I'd spent two months in the same psychiatric unit. Many do not have this certainty and faith in their diagnosis.

It is not too uncommon for BPD and Bipolar Disorder to coexist either. You can have both and my psychiatrist has her suspicions that that may be the case for me, so you wouldn't be the first person on these forums with both conditions (I am also not sure about it being both so myself and my psychiatrist are on the same level there) but there are others.

Now, it may be that you havent been misdiagnosed and you do have BPD. We cannot say. What we do know is that the highs experienced by those with BPD can be similar to hypomania in those with Bipolar Disorder, even if that's to a lower extent. With BPD, the mood swings are more common than a typical diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder in which moods tend to change after a number of months (episodic change in states of hypomania, mania, typical or depression). There are rapid cycling diagnostic criteria for Bipolar Disorder in which moods change more frequently with no sustained period of stability inbetween but this is rarer. As for ultra rapid cycling, this is a very rare occurence and there aren't actually any diagnostic criteria for it - it is not included in the DSM. Hypomania also lasts a minimum of four days, typically.

It is important to remember that rapid cycling Bipolar is not a diagnosis but is actually a "course identifier".

I'd say to push your point of your doubt over your diagnosis and to keep a mood diary for a minimum of three months to show to a psychiatrist and also assist in your treatment.

I hope that helps you to get some clarity. Keep us updated.

[Tucson]

[quasicrystalline]

Originally Posted by Resident Bipolar

Many do not have this certainty and faith in their diagnosis.

Seconded! This was me for the longest time. All I knew was I was suffering and I wasn't getting the right kind of help. It took keeping a journal, the right pdoc, and a hospitalization (for mania) to be 100% certain of my diagnosis. I also recommend keeping a journal. Regardless of what your pdoc does with it, it's a good for your own peace of mind.

Feel better soon.

[Crazy Hitch]

Hi Maddie

I am bipolar and borderline (dual diagnosis)

I'd be happy to have a chat with you anytime.