[BlackSheep79]

So with the assistance of my pdoc, We are seeing what happens if we wean me off of Seroquel. A few nights ago I went from 400 to 300, and I told them I want to do it slowly, so we are doing the 300 for a month. Last time my old pdoc had me come off of 400 mg in two weeks and physically it was hell and I went mixed, so I'm scared and want to go slow. I'm dealing with the flu like symptoms like last time, but oh well. Anyways sleep has always been a problem, getting to sleep and staying asleep. I'm already noticing problems, and starting to freak about it. I don't sleep with a TV, a white noise machine, and the room is at 68 degrees. Does anyone have any suggestions for sleep? Long term medicine and lifestyle changes, etc. thanks.

have you tried melatonin tablets? zopiclone can be a crisis sleep med too. i always find a cup of herbal tea before bed (not green tea) is helpful.

[Resident Bipolar]

In my opinion and seemingly that of my psychiatrist's, going down from 400mg to 300mg straight away is not a slow reduction at all. If I did that I'd never have been able to cope! When I was on 700mg, I went down in 25mg each week. Some weeks were 50mg. I feel that's a much easier way to go about it, with the least noticeable effects, even though it takes a while down to 0mg (hence the occasional 50mg decreases in dose).

As suggested by 888, Melatonin is a good option and I've found that Melatonin Extended/Slow/Prolonged release tablets are best for keeping me asleep. Circadin is an option for the prolonged release.

Other things to try include avoiding all sources of emitted artificial light, such as tablets, phones, lights, lamps, computing screens and any other device containing a light emitting diode (LED) for at least half an hour before you intend to fall asleep. Reading is good, a kindle (original) is fine as it does not emit light. Also avoid stress and movies, TV etc for at least an hour before.

Avoid caffeine for three hours before sleep, as well as excessive sugar. Don't eat less than three hours before sleep. Get into bed and lie in darkness or low light for half an hour before the time you intend to sleep. Reduce noise levels to a bare minimum.

Most of all, don't stress about not being able to sleep. Worrying about it exacerbates the situation. Also, ensure you stick to a sleeping pattern. If you're waking up at 9am, try sleeping for 10pm, 11pm at the latest. 8am 9pm or 10pm latest and so on. If you're waking up late you won't sleep until late.

Sorry about my disjointed writing. Battery is about to run out.

Hope this helps and good luck

There are some great apps you can get for free to help with sleep.

Thirding melatonin, great stuff.

Sleepytime tea with valerian is also good.

Good sleep hygiene and routine is a given.

[TimTheEnchanter]

Ask for Ambien while you are adjusting with your meds. I take 2 melatonin even when I sleep OK.

[LastQuestion]

Dark Therapy helped me quite a bit, so did making my room as dark as possible at night. I still have issues staying asleep, but I am able to go back to sleep fairly easy. I honestly believe most of my current sleep issues are caused by the lamotrigine I'm tapering off of. When I have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep I use 5mg instant Melatonin with 300-600mcg time release melatonin. Sometimes that isn't enough or just is not therapeutic and I'll eventually try l-theanine if I believe I can keep myself from thinking too much. I have found l-theanine calming and it can promote undisturbed sleep with very strong REM sleep (almost as sharp an experience as vivid dreaming), however, it can also make it harder to go to sleep as it makes it easier to clearly focus my thoughts and if those thoughts are worrisome it becomes difficult to sleep.

I think it would have been prudent to use a taper plan that reduced the dosage by 25mg per week. Small gradual reductions make the process far easier in my opinion. In fact, I have found that by avoiding huge drops in the taper process I can withdraw at a higher rate than otherwise as my CNS is placed under less acute stress. It's kind of like the difference between jogging 3k every day or 12k once a week. Moreover, the large drops in dosage are more likely to disturb sleep and sleep is integral to speeding recovery.

Just as important is to make sure you're getting all the nutrients necessary, not simply 100% dv. Under times of stress certain nutrients like magnesium are rapidly depleted. When I first started my taper of lamotrigine I spent the first week and a half with body aches, lethargy, and a headache. My understanding of what goes on during withdrawal led me to believe I wasn't getting enough magnesium, so I tripled my supplementary intake and in two days I was back to daily exercise and decent sleep with normal amounts of after exercise inflammation. It really was as simple as matching a nutrient to a symptom, which really highlights the importance of good diet, especially while withdrawing from certain medications. To provide some context I was already getting ~140% the daily value of magnesium with over 100% coming from diet alone.

[BlackSheep79]

Originally Posted by LastQuestion

Dark Therapy helped me quite a bit, so did making my room as dark as possible at night. I still have issues staying asleep, but I am able to go back to sleep fairly easy. I honestly believe most of my current sleep issues are caused by the lamotrigine I'm tapering off of. When I have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep I use 5mg instant Melatonin with 300-600mcg time release melatonin. Sometimes that isn't enough or just is not therapeutic and I'll eventually try l-theanine if I believe I can keep myself from thinking too much. I have found l-theanine calming and it can promote undisturbed sleep with very strong REM sleep (almost as sharp an experience as vivid dreaming), however, it can also make it harder to go to sleep as it makes it easier to clearly focus my thoughts and if those thoughts are worrisome it becomes difficult to sleep.

I think it would have been prudent to use a taper plan that reduced the dosage by 25mg per week. Small gradual reductions make the process far easier in my opinion. In fact, I have found that by avoiding huge drops in the taper process I can withdraw at a higher rate than otherwise as my CNS is placed under less acute stress. It's kind of like the difference between jogging 3k every day or 12k once a week. Moreover, the large drops in dosage are more likely to disturb sleep and sleep is integral to speeding recovery.

Just as important is to make sure you're getting all the nutrients necessary, not simply 100% dv. Under times of stress certain nutrients like magnesium are rapidly depleted. When I first started my taper of lamotrigine I spent the first week and a half with body aches, lethargy, and a headache. My understanding of what goes on during withdrawal led me to believe I wasn't getting enough magnesium, so I tripled my supplementary intake and in two days I was back to daily exercise and decent sleep with normal amounts of after exercise inflammation. It really was as simple as matching a nutrient to a symptom, which really highlights the importance of good diet, especially while withdrawing from certain medications. To provide some context I was already getting ~140% the daily value of magnesium with over 100% coming from diet alone.

Yeah my pdoc said I could come down from 400 to 300 on the Seroquel in two weeks, I said slower than that, so we are doing that for a month. They told me to call if I have sleep problems or changes in my thinking. Right now I'm dealing with severe headaches and stomach problems, and body aches. Slight sleep issues. I've never came off of Lamictal before, but I heard its hell. I actually started magnesium and zinc about a month ago. I read somewhere that it theoretically helps with BP, so I thought why not, it can't hurt. I'm on 250 mg of magnesium. What are you on?

[lunaticfringe]

I take Visteril for sleep which is the only thing that has worked for me. I also like Twinings Nightly Calm tea and I have a relaxing lavender pack for my shoulders.

Getting off Seroquel was pure hell for me so I wish you all the best!

[LastQuestion]

Originally Posted by BlackSheep79

Yeah my pdoc said I could come down from 400 to 300 on the Seroquel in two weeks, I said slower than that, so we are doing that for a month. They told me to call if I have sleep problems or changes in my thinking. Right now I'm dealing with severe headaches and stomach problems, and body aches. Slight sleep issues. I've never came off of Lamictal before, but I heard its hell. I actually started magnesium and zinc about a month ago. I read somewhere that it theoretically helps with BP, so I thought why not, it can't hurt. I'm on 250 mg of magnesium. What are you on?

I'm taking 200mg (50%dv) of doctors best chelated magnesium and am getting about 30% dv from a mercola multivitamin, the rest I get from diet (brown rice, oats, Chia seeds, fish, nuts, vegetables). An important bit of information regarding magnesium aipllents is that the cheap stuff, such as oxides and stearates, have a very low bioavailability. Some can be as low as 4%, leaving 96% of the supplement to serve as little more than a laxative/stool softener.

I haven't found a way around the gastrointestinal distress that almost always accompanies withdrawal, but l-theanine, ashwaganda, and l-taurine provided some relief from the body aches I had withdrawing from Temazepam. I have also found tgat managing my Omega 6 to Omega 3 intake ratio so that it is as close to 1:1 has helped my overall wellness. Just taking a fish oil supplement isn't anywhere near enough to do that effectively. It requires radically altering diet and then using a quality fish oil which is not rancid - good fish oil dies not taste ot smell fishy, and the cheap Ester oils that dominate the market have a lower bioavailability than the triglyceride form, which leaves most of the supplement to oxidize, produce free radicals, cause cellular damage, and as a result increase the overall levels of inflammation. Nordic naturals is the only brand I find worth taking, but the stuff is expensive, so I make sure to eat lots of Salmon, mackerel, herring, and sardines, with a little shrimp here and there, while avoiding beef, pork, chicken, and other sources of onega 6 fats.

[BlackSheep79]

Originally Posted by LastQuestion

I'm taking 200mg (50%dv) of doctors best chelated magnesium and am getting about 30% dv from a mercola multivitamin, the rest I get from diet (brown rice, oats, Chia seeds, fish, nuts, vegetables). An important bit of information regarding magnesium aipllents is that the cheap stuff, such as oxides and stearates, have a very low bioavailability. Some can be as low as 4%, leaving 96% of the supplement to serve as little more than a laxative/stool softener.

I haven't found a way around the gastrointestinal distress that almost always accompanies withdrawal, but l-theanine, ashwaganda, and l-taurine provided some relief from the body aches I had withdrawing from Temazepam. I have also found tgat managing my Omega 6 to Omega 3 intake ratio so that it is as close to 1:1 has helped my overall wellness. Just taking a fish oil supplement isn't anywhere near enough to do that effectively. It requires radically altering diet and then using a quality fish oil which is not rancid - good fish oil dies not taste ot smell fishy, and the cheap Ester oils that dominate the market have a lower bioavailability than the triglyceride form, which leaves most of the supplement to oxidize, produce free radicals, cause cellular damage, and as a result increase the overall levels of inflammation. Nordic naturals is the only brand I find worth taking, but the stuff is expensive, so I make sure to eat lots of Salmon, mackerel, herring, and sardines, with a little shrimp here and there, while avoiding beef, pork, chicken, and other sources of onega 6 fats.

I take fish oil pills because that stupid seroquel also upped my triglycerides as well so it seems to work. I have this crazy phobia of eating seafood. It's so hard to take those pills, but I know I need too. I need to do more research and see what other foods I can get my omegas?

The biggest problem the past few days is horrible headaches and nausea, but I dont puke. It hits me out of nowhere. It happened at the end of my shift yesterday, I didn't think I was going to make it home. This happened the last time I came off Seroquel.

Thanks for the info., I will look into this. I'm always looking for ways to improve my health.

[Resident Bipolar]

Originally Posted by LastQuestion

I think it would have been prudent to use a taper plan that reduced the dosage by 25mg per week. Small gradual reductions make the process far easier in my opinion. In fact, I have found that by avoiding huge drops in the taper process I can withdraw at a higher rate than otherwise as my CNS is placed under less acute stress. It's kind of like the difference between jogging 3k every day or 12k once a week. Moreover, the large drops in dosage are more likely to disturb sleep and sleep is integral to speeding recovery.

25mg per week is a gradual reduction, or at least it is compared to dropping from 400mg right down to 300mg in one hop. Your analogy actually backs up my point rather than going against it - dropping from 400mg to 300mg as the OP mentioned is the 12K once a week, which would be much more exerting than doing 3K every day.

I used 25mg per week as an example of how my medication was tapered down from 700mg when I wanted it done fairly quickly but without causing any adverse or undesirable effects from the cessation of Quetiapine treatment. If you take what BlackSheep is going to do (400mg down to 300mg) per month and change that to 25mg per week, medication will be stopped in the same amount of time because when you 4x25mg it adds up to a reduction of 100mg (400mg down to 300mg) BUT it does it at smaller increments. So it's more like going from doing no physical activity to working your way up to running.

There are no strict set guidlines as to how to reduce Quetiapine. As a person that has been on and off Quetiapine numerous times, 25mg per week was the best option for me personally. I didn't notice any difference in my sleeping habits (except for being able to wake up when I wanted to - not something possible when I was on the drug) and I would definitely not have been able to say the same if I'd have gone from 400mg one day to 300mg the next. That is a HUGE jump in my opinion, and 25mg a week rather than 100mg straight away would be a lot less punishing for BlackSheep.

[BlackSheep79]

Originally Posted by Resident Bipolar

25mg per week is a gradual reduction, or at least it is compared to dropping from 400mg right down to 300mg in one hop. Your analogy actually backs up my point rather than going against it - dropping from 400mg to 300mg as the OP mentioned is the 12K once a week, which would be much more exerting than doing 3K every day.

I used 25mg per week as an example of how my medication was tapered down from 700mg when I wanted it done fairly quickly but without causing any adverse or undesirable effects from the cessation of Quetiapine treatment. If you take what BlackSheep is going to do (400mg down to 300mg) per month and change that to 25mg per week, medication will be stopped in the same amount of time because when you 4x25mg it adds up to a reduction of 100mg (400mg down to 300mg) BUT it does it at smaller increments. So it's more like going from doing no physical activity to working your way up to running.

There are no strict set guidlines as to how to reduce Quetiapine. As a person that has been on and off Quetiapine numerous times, 25mg per week was the best option for me personally. I didn't notice any difference in my sleeping habits (except for being able to wake up when I wanted to - not something possible when I was on the drug) and I would definitely not have been able to say the same if I'd have gone from 400mg one day to 300mg the next. That is a HUGE jump in my opinion, and 25mg a week rather than 100mg straight away would be a lot less punishing for BlackSheep.

I completely agree with you. I figured the damage was already done right now from the 400 to 300 drop. I'm going to wait a few weeks and stay on the 300 and when I start feeling better I'm going to contact my pdoc and make the increments smaller as I go down, maybe 25 or 50 mg per week like you suggested. What's crazy is my last pdoc had me off of 400 mg of Seroquel in two weeks, that was hell. Thanks for your help with this.

[quasicrystalline]

I went down 50 mg every three days, and the transition down wasn't too bad, but then again, I wasn't on the medication or the higher dosage for very long. I could be lucky, too.

As for sleep, melatonin has helped me a lot more than I expected it would. I was told you can take up to 20 mg safely.