[Nix]

I have wondered about whether or not I really experience mania because I'm a creative person by nature and thought some people just labeled a creative focus as mania in my life. But last night I had a conversation and realized a few things …

I recalled a time in my life--more than a year long--where I thought everything was really wonderful even though my husband thought it was not. I was actually shocked when I told him it was one of the best times of my life and he said he thought it was a terrible time of our lives. I thought certain famous and important people were communicating telepathically with me and had plans for my life and wanted to help me achieve my personal goals. I also thought they took a personal interest in the daily activities of myself and my family, and that they were giving me money. I was giving away whole paychecks and wouldn't listen to any reason from others if they tried to convince me that it wasn't a good idea. I was spending hundreds of extra dollars on specific food items (and driving hours and hours to find these specific items) because I thought other items were poisoned and our family had been given special information about which food was not poisoned. Etc.

I never thought I experienced mania or grandiosity but I'm wondering if these things fall into that category and it never even really occurred to me before yesterday.

Has anyone had similar experiences while manic, and does that sound like mania to you?

I'm also wondering… can grandiosity can apply to persecutory delusions? In other words, if one thinks a certain group or entity has singled him/her out to hurt or persecute him/her in some way, is that a type of grandiosity? Or does the term grandiosity only apply when it relates to feeling on top of the world?

[x123]

I read that delusions are a response to feeling unimportant. Whether I think I am Jesus (grandiose) or that the mafia is trying to kill me (persecutory), I must be an important person. So I suspect the different forms of delusion can overlap.

[Pastel Kitten]

Sometimes I feel the sun shines extra brightly just for me and that I'm somehow in sync with the weather and nature.

[Nix]

Originally Posted by x123

I read that delusions are a response to feeling unimportant.

I've never heard this opinion before, as I've just read/heard that delusions can occur as a result of mental illness.

I certainly don't recall any conscious desire to feel important, and as delusional thinking has brought havoc to me and those around me, it's hard to imagine a need to feel important manifesting this way.

[x123]

Originally Posted by phoenix31

I've never heard this opinion before, as I've just read/heard that delusions can occur as a result of mental illness.

I certainly don't recall any conscious desire to feel important, and as delusional thinking has brought havoc to me and those around me, it's hard to imagine a need to feel important manifesting this way.

I don't know where I read that originally, but here is a link to a scientific study
Self-esteem and delusion proneness. - PubMed - NCBI

The way you described feeling in the OP sounds like psychosis to me. I only had psychosis one time, but I had some similar feelings.

[Nix]

I am terrible at logic and evaluating scientific studies, but I wonder if other people on the boards might have opinions of interest. Do you mind if I repost this study outside of the bipolar forum to see what other people think?

It seems like if delusional thinking comes from poor self esteem, one could just work to improve one's self esteem and it would result in fewer psychotic delusions, or they would go away completely. But that doesn't seem right to me. Like I said, I'm not really the logic queen…

[x123]

Originally Posted by phoenix31

I am terrible at logic and evaluating scientific studies, but I wonder if other people on the boards might have opinions of interest. Do you mind if I repost this study outside of the bipolar forum to see what other people think?

It seems like if delusional thinking comes from poor self esteem, one could just work to improve one's self esteem and it would result in fewer psychotic delusions, or they would go away completely. But that doesn't seem right to me. Like I said, I'm not really the logic queen…

That sounds like a good idea. There are probably people who understand statistics and psychology that could say more. I don't understand those things either, so I can only read the title. One day they say one thing and the next day they say the opposite - it depends what corporation gave money to fund the study.

I agree that there is more than simply low self-esteem. I've had low self-esteem my entire life, but I haven't been delusional except one brief period. I do have mild delusional thoughts every couple of weeks, but they go away if I get some sleep. I have heard that bipolar makes it hard to sleep, so this would probably contribute to creating delusions. (I don't have bipolar myself, so I am just repeating what I've heard from people like yourself that suffer with it.)

[Nix]

I wonder if there is a difference between types of delusions or their severity.

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[jacky8807]

Sounds like hypo or manic delusions to me for sure. I have had these type as well
But didn't realize the thinking was wierd until after the episode. When I had a complete psychotic break it was nuts.

[jbuttz]

Originally Posted by Pastel Kitten

Sometimes I feel the sun shines extra brightly just for me and that I'm somehow in sync with the weather and nature.

That's actually really nice

[x123]

Originally Posted by phoenix31

I wonder if there is a difference between types of delusions or their severity.

That's probably true, but when I read your description of how you felt, I noticed some similarities to how I felt.

The idea of food being contaminated seems to be common. I remember going to the grocery store and not buying anything, because I wasn't sure which items had come from farms and food processing plants that were controlled by "them". I stopped drinking coffee, because I thought they had come into my apartment and done something to my coffee. Actually just a couple of weeks ago, I became mildly delusional about some food I bought the day before and then decided had been magically contaminated. (I went to sleep, and the next day I was able to eat the food reluctantly.) That reminds me of what you said about grocery shopping at distant stores, etc.

What seems unique about your delusions, is that you were happy and hopeful in spite of the fact that some of your ideas were persecution delusions. When I am delusional, I feel shaky, weak, hopeless, and want to curl up in a ball LOL. Probably the difference is that you were manic along with being delusional?

[Nix]

Whether I was manic is what I've been trying to determine, because normally my paranoia and delusions have been very negative, as what you described with yourself. I haven't recognized any mania and have gotten upset with people who tried to point out that I might have been manic at different times. I've only recently begun to be able to see more clearly and maybe identify things as others see them, which is why I'm wondering if I was manic during the period of time I described.

Would you consider your delusions psychotic? It sounds like it to me but I don't really get how all of this works just yet, as some people have mentioned delusions based in anxiety, etc. That's why it seemed weird that delusions like what you described could come from low self esteem, because it seems psychotic so I don't get how that works.

[x123]

Originally Posted by phoenix31

Whether I was manic is what I've been trying to determine, because normally my paranoia and delusions have been very negative, as what you described with yourself. I haven't recognized any mania and have gotten upset with people who tried to point out that I might have been manic at different times. I've only recently begun to be able to see more clearly and maybe identify things as others see them, which is why I'm wondering if I was manic during the period of time I described.

The part of your description that sounds manic to me is how you spent or donated all your paycheck sometimes. The other part that sounds manic is that you felt very happy and hopeful.

Originally Posted by phoenix31

Would you consider your delusions psychotic? It sounds like it to me but I don't really get how all of this works just yet, as some people have mentioned delusions based in anxiety, etc. That's why it seemed weird that delusions like what you described could come from low self esteem, because it seems psychotic so I don't get how that works.

I think my delusions were psychotic, because there were also some hallucinations. But like you, as I read about psychosis and talk to people who have different forms of psychosis, it isn't a perfect match. Somebody told me that the labels such as bipolar, schizophrenia, whatever are not perfect. Everybody is different and experiences something unique.

On the low self esteem, I think it is only one of many factors. Some psychiatrists think that psychosis is the brain's way of repairing itself - sort of like how a fever helps to combat a virus. For example, it is very common for people to hallucinate loved ones while grieving a death. Also, many people develop psychosis during stressful times like when they are moving away from home around 18 and so forth. In my case, the psychosis seemed to be a result of my psychological condition and circumstances at one particular time in my life instead of being a medical condition. Most people need to take medication. On the other hand, I do have these mild relapses of delusional thinking, so I'm not quite back to normal after the psychotic episode. The difference is that I know the thoughts are ridiculous now.

Even if you can't precisely identify what happened to you, you might be able to look at preventative measure that work for a range of illnesses. For example, exercise, sunshine, sleep, nutrition, breathing exercises, etc. IDK Maybe it was a once in a lifetime thing like it was for me - especially if you take care of yourself.

[Nix]

Those are very interesting thoughts to consider, about the brain repairing itself. I've never heard that idea before.

Unfortunately for me, I've had too many problems over a long span of time to consider it a once in a lifetime thing. I wish I could, though I have had enough trouble already with denying or being blind to the problems. I am trying to make it up to my husband by taking it seriously, staying on my meds and in therapy, and trying to sort it all out. He says life has been hell for way too long so I am trying to consider that, I guess.

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(Re: Phoenix31's "I wonder if there is a difference between types of delusions or their severity" and the question of self-esteem's potential relationship to delusion. Sorry to not quote in proper format.)

It sounds like we might be talking about the word being used in a common vs medical sense. For instance, one can experience a delusion in a manic episode -- like believing that they can control the weather. Or that Abraham Lincoln is spying on them. (Like x123 points out, grandiosity or persecutory.)

Or, we could be talking about my mother. She's about as famous and accomplished as dryer lint. Yet she is always seeking to puff herself up -- going on about being in some "business womens' league" (she's an ordinary laborer). Or insisting she is a computer whiz, yet sending out things with viruses due to being oblivious of the need to update her anti-virus software.

Mind you, she's chock full of psychological problems. But I think the above examples are about self-esteem, yes? It would be said she's rather delusional about her abilities and social group. But they're the things of ordinary life, puffed up in an attempt to impress others or simply avoid admitting how utterly ordinary she is. A resumé of overstatement might be a good comparison.

She also believes that an old beat up violin stuffed in her closet is a real Stradivarius. It isn't even a fake, let alone a real one. I think we move into delusion in a more formal sense with that, don't you? It's preposterous, easily proven to be so, yet she's convinced. It goes way beyond resumé-fluffing. It's pathological.

[Nix]

Inner zone, that makes sense to me.

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