Possible cure or "biologically proven" (add.) treatment for BP/SZ-subgroup (theory!)

Sorry for double-posting, but I might've derailed another thread. Any answers already given or comments made don't have to be repeated here, as far as I am concerned.

I am also gonna be, in a way, exclusive or divisive (something which is completely against my nature and I hope/think yours as well), but this might be important. Don't feel bad: we all share the same syndrome, mostly the same struggles and we are all caring and special individuals in our own right. I just try to find a helpful division for better research and treatment.

I want start with a few questions (if you don't want to read further due to the length of this post, I understand):

Have you had quite severe memory problems, e.g. obsessional repetition of thoughts/ideas and difficulty learning arbitrary words, motor or any other sequences (in time or space), like riding a bicycle, almost real delusional thinking and mild hallucinations (since you might not have recognised them as such, this one is optional), problems with details and precision, problems with remembering the steps/items of sequences but not having difficulty performing them, mood swings, early on difficulties with expression, a gradually increasing feeling you were different, often forgetting thinks with changing surroundings, in childhood or early adolescence?

If so, or if not so, have you had or do you still suffer from a drug or alcohol addiction or a severe trauma and/or PTSD?

Same for the next three:
Were you diagnosed previously with ADHD (either inattentive or hyperactive type)?

Were you previously diagnosed with a schizo* personality disorder, psychotic disorder NOS, a borderline personality disorder, or do you have clearly some BPD traits, or an autism spectrum disorder (which includes PDD-NOS and Asperger's disorder)?

What is your "psychotic spectrum" or BP/SZA/SZ diagnosis (including specifiers)?

Everyone answering these questions rightfully deserves and will get a hug.

That said, I give extra long hugs to anyone that comments on these hopefully-not-ramblings!

Don't/never, ever, feel like you have to. It might, however, still be an interesting read. I hope so.

As I said before, it is very long, but years in the making (including some other similar posts). I would greatly appreciate your comments and/or suggestions.

It is possibly due to hindered cell "migration" and (or due to) cell death and/or decreased myelination and cell interconnectivity. That would be primarily in some parts of the prefrontal cortex (the very advanced dorsolateral and ventromedial parts), but more interestingly the cortical anterior cingulate cortex and the subcortical basal ganglia (possibly mostly the striatum) (and some, possibly quite majorly important, interaction with the cerebellum. All these areas are very much functionally related to SZ and BP.

So far the 101 (well actually quite specific, of course) in neuroscience.

The takeaway from this is that all these areas are more or less involved in the arbitrarily sequential operations/functions in the brain. Any (rote) learning of facts, use of language, speech, writing, walking, hair- and teeth-brushing and all other internalised movements and associations go through and use these brain areas.

Now, my hypothesis is that the toxicity for/of the brain that is associated with SZ and, to a lesser extent BP (mixed group and/or just less severity, less severity being unlikely given the enormous, enduring excitotoxicity of mania?), causes the brain to prioritise or focus on (not actively!), just a small set of "tricks"/habits, which by necessity are also much reduced/abstract (so that habits that are similar in function/meaning can use the same brain "instruments", memory storage space, leading to a smaller set of "basic brain data" to store). A good analogy would be evolution (by natural selection).

That would explain why and how people with dyslexia or dyscalculia or whatever you might call it (I use the umbrella term dysreductia, which includes SZ and BP prodromes and consequent syndromes), have difficulty with learning arbitrary sequences, but once they have learned one, they are both more capable of "transferring" that knowledge to be used for similar sequences, but they are also much better in them, since there is less "clutter", there are fewer perceived inconsistencies: action is taken with just enough reduced perception so as to excel. It also requires less energy: it is more energy efficient.

Mania makes these processes far more pronounced (just because of cell damage as well as the effectively shutting down of some, mostly (frontal-)cortical, brain areas). Things blend together.

This all looks perfect, allowing for quick reactions, but it has the ingredients for disaster. Your reactions become less accurate.

Indeed, when fear or anxiety sets in (the end of the "just doing it"), all brain areas switch on and much of what is very much damaged and left unrepaired takes over: call it the very rational checks and balances system. But since much of it is damaged great mistakes are made: things are lost or (abstract) emotions are rationalised wrongly. I call this "secondary psychosis initiation": you (auto)rationalise using a, or a few, wrong assumption(s).

Most of the problem is not just damage (it a necessary prerequisite even if only mild: common), but the speed at which you rationalise. Call it "hyper-rationalisation". It may mess up not just thought structures, including the relation to the self, but all kinds of perception: auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory, proprioceptive, etc.

A (hopefully) good analogy is taking an extended lunch break, then rushing to finish your work: more mistakes are probably made.

Fear for not finishing your work in time first builds confidence ("I can do this without thinking!"). What you have to do also becomes more important ("no time for chitchat!"). All you can talk or think about is work and you do it very fast.

Thinking to much about your habits will lead to anxiety ("there seems to be no rational underpinning" (they have been lost due to being largely inconsequential) "of what I do, is it actually correct.") and this will actually cause some kind of mini-psychosis: you make mistakes.

Just like one wrong assumption at work can make all the difference ("do I have to send these requests for a quote to 221B or 221A Baker Street?"), you might lose touch with reality.

SZ psychosis initiation might very well just be a very short mania cut short by fear. In case of SZ, this may primarily be caused, it being the feature that most distinguishes SZ from BP(-I) and SZA(/BP), by environmental factors: there is a greater probability, greater negative consequences and greater consequent fear of failure. There is also a greater need to continue after this "initiation", not allowing for "recharging, rewiring and rational backtracking and resolution" depression/recuperation, leaving the delusional thinking intact, leading to a (relatively) long period of psychosis. It is like you keep stumbling (anxiety, confidence build-up and overconfident and too fast rationalisation) and you don't know why.

Clinically, the only things to do are reducing anxiety ("pre-rationalising" and/or anxiolytic meds), finding the cause of brain toxicity and reducing or eliminating that toxicity (neuroprotective meds and/or supplements and excitement and stress reduction).

The first and last of these is generally already done in psycho- and pharmacotherapy (mostly with the exception of the necessary supplements). The second of these is still mostly lacking, but especially due to the heterogeneous character of BP and (even) SZ, very important: there might (even) be a cure.

All this is very tentative, but there is very much scientific literature, as well as anecdotal evidence, to support each part of it.

A side note: as I believe in a continuum from the psychotic spectrum, through normalcy, to the autism spectrum, assuming we all experience some form of mania, the problems experienced by those with ASD might best/also be described as transnormal, ultra-rapid mania.

Another side note: some other (arguably) supporting evidence is the relatively low incidence of cancer and the high incidence of cardiovascular problems: rapid cell death may lower the chances of cancer cell proliferation and heighten the chance of damage to the heart and vascular cells.

And when I say "possible cure", there would still be a long way to go, but you (and we) are essential in finding it. Treat it as a teaser of sorts.

And for me, factor in the brain fry-12-15 ECT.
And the promise was false. Memory did not return. Yesterday after a year and 1/2 of not seeing my neighbor, I saw him but could not recognize his face.

Yes, honestly I have no idea how more, artificial brain excitation would help, but apparently it does for some. It probably does help to untangle before naturally rewiring, so to speak. Maybe with time...

I hope eventually it benefits you or at least your memory is as good as it used to be. There should probably be better research done to establish which groups might benefit and which won't, before such things are tried.

I personally would at least try everything (aside from the regular meds) to protect your brain: vitamin E, acetylcysteine, methylfolate and methylcobalamin do all help a bit. It is a safe bet. Much safer than ECT.

Hope it might help!

I have no idea what you said but I will support your right to say it ... whatever it is .... sorry went over my head like an airliner ... thanks for giving breaks in the text , makes it much easier to read ...

Thank you so much, wiretwister. It means maybe more than you can imagine.

I am sorry it is so hard to read. Thanks for trying.

I am stable, myself, try to be respectful, be supportive and be and stay optimistic, and I feel utterly destroyed.

I seek no limelight, but somewhere to—really—belong. This was probably the last corner of the world.

Possibly for the first time since childhood, stable and in sorrowful tears.

Thanks again, dear friend.

Welcome ... you can , you do , belong here ... if you can put up with this rag tag outfit ... I for one hope you will accept my friend request ... and my friendship ..... Tigger.

To anyone who didn't find me (or others) too annoying: .

Maybe I'll be back. Need some time.

At a loss just what to say. I hope you find you do. Kind of choked up. Very relatable.

I am back, so you know. Scotch and jazz does wonders.

I'll try to scotch any solace found in sorrow or lamentation.

I will try to be a scotch when you are slipping.

I'll try to be responsible for all and everything I do.

Be all my sins remembered.

Tigger, of course I accept your friendship!

I really want to know how to use the trigger collapse thingy: I rarely drink much alcohol and I don't want to suggest it is a cure for anything we're dealing with, since (at least in the long run) it is absolutely not.

As I mentioned, I am stable and the alcohol was just something done for a very rare occasion.

I don't think there is any single simple cure, much less biologically based one.

BP is seems too spiritual and sociologically based for that. There are plenty of heavily medicated bipolars and still not cured. The people that found some solace found it outside of the pill bottle. Taking or not taking meds does not seem really matter in the larger aspect of having meaningful existance and finding the inner peace. Meds only calm you down enough to make your more bearable or less threatening to others, numb you from your realities... the more we explore the MI from sciency view point, the more does the general unsatisfaction and unhappiness increase.

Slavic chick approves of booze.

When you drink, you know it's not a solution, you know it's not cure. You are not drinking vodka or absinth thinking it's medicine curing some imbalances. You drink it.... well because.

People drank for world woe for a long time. And I trust E. M. Remarque more than some random white sheltered shrink from the suburbia.

Glad to have your approval. For once.

Fair point about the white sheltered shrink. Just don't want be overenthusiastic about something that is also not necessarily cause for extreme reverence.

Now, for the trigger thingy...

I don't believe in a simple, much-less single cure. As in really a cure. It is as much a gift (for me, at least) and even partly/consequently a way of life I wouldn't want to miss completely, so it cannot really be cured. Or I can't be.

If it's genetic, and it really is at least for some, to some (definitely not full) extent—if you include everything as part of an illness/disease, with some people having a latent/dormant disease—a real cure is also not likely or desirable.

If it is not, genetics only predisposing to develop a mental disorder, which doesn't really make much of a difference in the sciency way, there are still some biochemical changes which are relevant.

Much of that correlates with social and spiritual matters. Whether you see these (in a reduced fashion) rather as one, monistic (materialistic or mystic), or not, doesn't really matter much for the problems we face.

Though I do believe philosophy can help anyone, but especially us, to pre-rationalise as it were to keep a rational mind longer during mania. You might then land safely and largely unscathed without the use of meds.

But, if I may so (though I don't think it is much of anything in itself), I have a pretty rational mind, yet I do need meds to not lose my grasp of it. Arguably, even that is not a problem, but for me it really is. It's just what I do that demands a rather firm grasp. Mileage may vary.

Susceptibility to fear because of losing touch might vary. I don't have much fear, but also not much allowance. It is a choice and highly social and spiritual. I need philosophy and science to enrich my soul. For some, music will do or some other artistry. I chose science.

You can't (or you are just being illogical, fair enough) say science has a wrong viewpoint. Science, per se, is looking at all viewpoints.

Work in academia and other research work (much of it sponsored if it readily applies to the actual lives of people), however, is corrupt through and through. But also there you find (more and more) internal opposition.

Theories based on findings can still be very valid and helpful. The more sponsorship from big companies, again, can make theorising less viable, it not being readily useful, sometimes considered dangerous. It's not like it should make any sense to laypersons, surely! Sadly, that's how it works. Much effort goes into obfuscation.

Hopefully I (and of course others) do no such thing. I at least try to make the more sciency stuff I write as clear and simple (the essentials, but also giving caveats) as possible.

But maybe my view point of everybody being somewhat tragic is also a skewed one. Who knows.

We all don't live on geopolitical faultlines. Some don't even notice these.

Trigger thingie, demystified:
If I type it out, it will just make one, so a slightly roundabout way we shall go. Like other code (italics etc.) there are brackets [ ] at the beginning and end of the trigger part. Within the first set, type the word trigger. Within the second set, the first bracket is followed by a / (which indicates "end")
So... [/trigger] and [trigger]. Just reverse those. The one without a slash precedes the trigger material, the one with the slash is at the end of the trigger material.

Oooh! I will type one. If you hit quote, like responding to a text, it will show it in the same way you see quoted sections.


The kudos go to Resident Bipolar for coming up with this very useful feature.

Thank you (also Resident Bipolar)!



You see: it's all a show. Keep 'm laughing as you go.



Depression is the lesser of two evils, if an evil at all: if you continue without it, your problems will become more chronic. It is self-improvement time: you can always improve yourself. It can be hard. But: