Chicken and egg problem--

Which comes first: lack of sleep or mania?

I'm talking about lack of sleep as being a "trigger" for mania. Is lack of sleep a trigger? If you don't think so, do you think that a lack of sleep for a few days always indicates the start of mania?

I get insomnia sometimes without Mania. I believe a lack of sleep contributes to Mania, but it's definately not the only symptom present. Lack of sleep with boundless energy is the combo to look for.

[SpasticBliss]

I find that it becomes self-perpetuating if you let it get out of control, but at the onset I always have a trace of mania that makes me not want to sleep. Elsa referred to insomnia. To me, that's, "Oh god, I'm so tired, why can't I just sleep?!" At the onset of hypomania my sleeplessness is just wakefulness. No desire to get in bed, no desire to rest yet. Not needed. But it is needed, eventually. You can go a while, but if you don't catch it, and if you don't get enough sleep, you get more manic. Tricky tricky stuff.

[BeyondtheRainbow]

For me not sleeping means mania to some degree (or mixed since occasionally I just straight there before noticing at least) is present. I'm supposed to let my pdoc know when I have 3 nights of limited sleep; I used to take an increased AP dose then but now I'm not allowed to have the extra meds present and I'm not sure you could have a PRN dose of clozaril during the year of bloodwork to be sure it's not harming you since they are only supposed to dispense it if you labs are fine for the week (my pharmacy has yet to figure that out and I get a month at time but it shouldn't be that way). There are times not sleeping means my mood has dropped but my pdoc needs to know that too (and generally I think that means I'll be mixed very soon).

[st0psign]

I've had it go both ways, both before and after the onset of mania

Originally Posted by SpasticBliss

I find that it becomes self-perpetuating if you let it get out of control, but at the onset I always have a trace of mania that makes me not want to sleep. Elsa referred to insomnia. To me, that's, "Oh god, I'm so tired, why can't I just sleep?!" At the onset of hypomania my sleeplessness is just wakefulness. No desire to get in bed, no desire to rest yet. Not needed. But it is needed, eventually. You can go a while, but if you don't catch it, and if you don't get enough sleep, you get more manic. Tricky tricky stuff.

Yeah, this is how it is for me...

[BipolaRNurse]

Originally Posted by SpasticBliss

I find that it becomes self-perpetuating if you let it get out of control, but at the onset I always have a trace of mania that makes me not want to sleep. Elsa referred to insomnia. To me, that's, "Oh god, I'm so tired, why can't I just sleep?!" At the onset of hypomania my sleeplessness is just wakefulness. No desire to get in bed, no desire to rest yet. Not needed. But it is needed, eventually. You can go a while, but if you don't catch it, and if you don't get enough sleep, you get more manic. Tricky tricky stuff.

This. ^^

[OctobersBlackRose]

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

I get insomnia sometimes without Mania. I believe a lack of sleep contributes to Mania, but it's definately not the only symptom present. Lack of sleep with boundless energy is the combo to look for.

I agree with this, and I'll add I get lack of sleep in depressive episodes as well.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by st0psign

I've had it go both ways, both before and after the onset of mania

This for me.

I can also get it with depression.

There are journal articles mentioning disturbances in circadian rhythms.

Either way, sleep issues are great targets for which to find solutions, as further insomnia generally creates further exacerbation. Nip it in the bud, as fast as possible.

[Wild Coyote]

Just a couple of many:

Circadian rhythms and sleep in bipolar disorder: implications for pathophysiology and treatment. - PubMed - NCBI

J Clin Psychiatry/The Relationship Between Bipolar Disorder and Biological Rhythms

[Darkangeloflight]

[QUOTE=bluebicycle;5171768]Chicken and egg problem--

Which comes first: lack of sleep or mania?

I'm talking about lack of sleep as being a "trigger" for mania. Is lack of sleep a trigger? If you don't think so, do you think that a lack of sleep for a few days always indicates the start of mania?[/QUOTE
Hi I'm new here and I don't really know how to post. But my experience here is that if I have insomnia, I may be going into a manic or hypomanic episode. But I work nights, and my schedule severely affects my illness, and seems to cause a lot of irritability and more depression than mania. I know I shouldn't work this shift but I have no other options right now. But I guess in my situation, it just depends if I can't sleep because of work or if I can't sleep because of insomnia.

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

I get insomnia sometimes without Mania. I believe a lack of sleep contributes to Mania, but it's definately not the only symptom present. Lack of sleep with boundless energy is the combo to look for.

yeah... what she said

(how are you doing with your imsomnia elsa?)

it can really suck i know

[nativechic]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

C

I'm talking about lack of sleep as being a "trigger" for mania. Is lack of sleep a trigger? If you don't think so, do you think that a lack of sleep for a few days always indicates the start of mania?

Lack of sleep is definitely a trigger--my first two episodes were direct result of some all-nighters. It snowballs though. Circadian rhythm gets screwed up and all that.

[pirilin]

Going to sleep now.