[Blaire]

It's hard to admit, but I do this when people don't respond to me the way I want. I want to stop. Anyone else do this? Do you have any advice?

[Wild Coyote]

Since this is a Bipolar forum, let's be clear for our readers that self-sabotage does not stem from Bipolar illness.

How does self-sabotage punish others?
I can see if you are financially tied in with another person, your self-sabotage in the financial realm may negatively affect a partner.
Yet, outside of that, how does self-sabotage punish others?

As for changing this behavior, I'd suggest working on this with your therapist.

I wish you success in your desire to change this behavior.


WC

[Blaire]

Thank you, I know it isn't a symptom of my bipolar disorder, I think it's just one of my messed up coping strategies for dealing with it. For example, when I'm having a bad depression, I will want to drink or starve myself to get people to help me. I'm not sure where is a better place to pose the question.

[dermald]

Is it not possible to reach out to a friend and let them know that you need help from them, and then let them know what kind of help you need from them?

I've gone through a period where I had some attention-seeking behaviors. It is manipulative, and not well-received by others.

A therapist is definitely the way to go on this. Best of luck.

[Blaire]

Originally Posted by dermald

Is it not possible to reach out to a friend and let them know that you need help from them, and then let them know what kind of help you need from them?

I've gone through a period where I had some attention-seeking behaviors. It is manipulative, and not well-received by others.

A therapist is definitely the way to go on this. Best of luck.

I need to get to where I feel okay to ask directly for help instead of trying to lure people to me. I'm afraid to be direct I guess. I'm afraid I will be denied. Major neglect issues. Maybe I test people to "see how much they love me." I will honestly admit that if I don't get the attention I want, I will employ the "well, I'll show them!" tactic and let myself fall apart. It's pathetic. Could this be a borderline thing?

Sorry, I know this isn't quite the right venue for this, I just feel so messed up and confused right now. A lot of weird things are coming up for me right now, and it's hard to sort out what's what.

Thank you for being patient with me.

[Unrigged64072835]

You might want to try the Borderline Personality Disorder subforum in the Personality Place forum.

I have both Bipolar and BPD. Being rejected is a hard thing to put up with. It can be terrifying to me. I had to self-consciously and mindfully learn that someone saying no is not about them punishing me or degrading my self-worth. It is actually helpful that the person doesn't take on more than being able to, and upholding boundaries. I went to therapy to work on why I was so needy, and how to meet my own emotional needs that couldn't be met by other people. DBT also helped.

[*Laurie*]

Are you diagnosed with bipolar disorder? If not, I also suggest that you post on the BPD board.

[tippitippi]

Yeah I think I do

[Wild Coyote]

You are fine here.

Without calling a diagnosis into play, we could simply say this pattern is maladaptive and not in your best interest, which you now see and hope to change.

We all have something we do based upon past experiences. Your pattern made the most sense to you, given your history.

Once we gain insight into the fact that a specific pattern is not the healthiest, we then can change that pattern.

Kudos to you for gaining the insight and for admitting your past pattern. This all helps you in your healing!


WC

[Blaire]

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

Are you diagnosed with bipolar disorder? If not, I also suggest that you post on the BPD board.

Yes, I'm BP2. I am not diagnosed with borderline, but I'm wondering if it might be a factor. I know some folks on here have both and thought they might have some insight.

[Wild Coyote]

Members here with BP and BPD can be very helpful to you.


WC

[Guiness187055]

I am without a doubt bipolar 1 and I do the same thing Blaire.

[Blaire]

Originally Posted by Guiness187055

I am without a doubt bipolar 1 and I do the same thing Blaire.

Whew! There are others! LOL

Originally Posted by Blaire

I need to get to where I feel okay to ask directly for help instead of trying to lure people to me. I'm afraid to be direct I guess. I'm afraid I will be denied. Major neglect issues. Maybe I test people to "see how much they love me." I will honestly admit that if I don't get the attention I want, I will employ the "well, I'll show them!" tactic and let myself fall apart. It's pathetic. Could this be a borderline thing?

This sounds to me very much like a BPD issue; a trait even if you don't have enough of those traits to qualify for the full BPD diagnosis. I would suggest being honest with your T about this and about the abandonment fears. I understand that it will be scary to admit this. I think you are brave to admit it here. But a T is the best person to help you change this maladaptive pattern.

Hopefully your T is good enough to be able to help you, but a simple perusal of the therapy forum here will show that many Ts aren't equipped to respond therapeutically to these types of behaviours. Hopefully your T is a good one, but if not, please find a T experienced in these issues to help you (DBT might be an idea) because it CAN get better.

All the best

*Willow*

[*Laurie*]

Just from reading your posts I get the feeling that you have BPD.

[Icare dixit]

As to whether the self-sabotaging, a desire to be validated and the desire to hurt yourself by provoking others and anger could be part of BPD: yes (it's not really made explicit in the previous answers, albeit implied).

But do you think hurting others might be a reason behind your self-sabotaging behaviour or is your behaviour really based on a desire to hurt others and not some compulsion or borderline delusion (i.e. it just pops into your mind, it's based on sudden strong emotions, starting with (one causing) anxiety, and you act accordingly even though you don't want to).

The need to rationalise very quickly to reduce anxiety resulting in an incorrect assumption (causing anger) and a bad solution. The borderline delusion resulting in the "I'll show them", if that's what it is, doesn't mean you want to hurt others, just that you want to fail, you want to self-sabotage and you want a response, regardless whether others get hurt. Maybe you want to make a point, lower expectations and/or maybe you want abuse.

So, if it's BPD, you hurt yourself because you "want" to hurt yourself and/or you require validation and you can't help yourself.

One might self-sabotage by hurting others, but hurting others by self-sabotaging is not typical of BPD, I'd say.

That you think you want to hurt others might also be a way to hurt yourself. You "want" to see yourself as a worse person than you really are.

BPD is irrational, emotional. Borderline delusional due to surges of anxiety, it's (quickly) going back and forth between great uncertainty and great certainty. It's impulsive and compulsive. It's about you and how your personality developed. It's not about blame.

It's about you, what you do, how things/reactions affect you and what you (seem to) desire. Explain yourself and restrain yourself. Don't assume, just describe.

If it's just about validation, proving a point, just about lowering expectations or (really) deliberate, it's unlikely to be BPD, but you might be mistaken and it's not just about one of these things.

[Sunflower123]

Please work on this with your therapist. It is not getting you what you want and can hurt you. There are better ways to go about getting attention. I wish you the very best.

[Nammu]

Its a form of manipulation, trying to get others to act or do what you want them to by saying see what you made me do. My mother has a form of this.

[Blaire]

This is a lot of really good information, thank you!

[wildflowerchild25]

I used to do this a lot when I was a teenager. For example, I was mad at a hospital for making me go home, so I planned an elaborate suicide and acted it out. However my intention was never to actually die so I got "caught" fairly early on. When I think of the harm I did my family during those times I just feel awful. Definitely work on it in therapy because the pain it causes is just not worth it!