Do you feel you've lost IQ points?

What kind of research? I used to be microbiologist until two things happened. 1 mouse allergy 2 cognitive decline. My former boss thought I was functioning at the level of a tech despite being a research assistant professor. That’s when I got the testing done for IQ.

[This is too long. Basically, YES and YES.]

I feel like I've definitely been mentally dulled, either by age, meds, or bipolar itself. Probably all three.

In 5th grade I would stay up at night, with a flashlight, reading, reading, reading. I finished off two dictionaries and an encyclopedia that time, not to mention a lot of (well, short) novels.

In junior high everbody got IQ-tested; they told my parents I scored somewhere north of 145 -- the tests apparently couldn't reliably test for higher numbers. There was a physical science teacher who let me teach her classes sometimes.

I aced most classes in high school...everybody hated me, of course.

I'm not trying to brag, but to show the contrast to the rest of my life. For instance, I quit college (electrical engineering -- good grades) to become a baby photographer. There were a whole string of other stupid decisions that followed, which I realize now were probably when I was in either hypo/manic or hard depressive states. I wasn't diagnosed or treated until my mid 50's, but then lithium wasn't being commonly used until after I was in my early 20's, and I was/am considered "high performing", and able to hide any problems I was hiding.

Anyway, over the following years I seem to have gradually lost it all -- I'd bet my IQ wouldn't crack 100 now. My memory has big holes in it, and seems to be getting much worse. Vocabulary, word-finding and spelling are getting pathetic (hooray for Google, on-line thesauruses and cut-n-paste), regular cognition is slower, and I get confused a lot. I used to be able to calculate cube-roots in my head. Now if addition has more than two digits and two numbers I need a calculator.

So, yes, I think medicines [i]and[\i] bipolar disorder have robbed me of a lot.

I'm a computer scientist with a love for physics. Cognitive decline is a really terrifying prospect to me. Would you say it's more due to meds or due to the disorder itself? Thankfully my psychiatrist agreed to work with me to keep meds to a minimum or even none when the situation allows it. It's rough, but if it keeps my brain working better I'm hoping it's worth it.

I've recently left the university for an industry research job. The research I can still do, it's the teaching that tripped me up. The research projects span a long time, so I can kind of "average out" my ups and downs, but the teaching requires me to function well consistently, which I just can't.

I also have a love of writing, which I'm trying to focus more on. My first book came out last year and is doing well. It's a technical book though. I'm focusing more on fiction now. It's a learning curve, but I figure even after my brain is shot I ought to still be able to make up stories.

I've never had many IQ points to begin with!

I'm sorry to hear that. I can relate to the ill-informed decisions. At some point I even quit my PhD halfway through for some dumb reason (too stupid to mention here). Luckily they were kind enough to let me come back. Honestly I think a lot of where I am right now is due to dumb luck and very tolerant people who are kind enough to put up with my bad decisions from time to time.

I too am afraid of Anxiety and my ADD meds causing long term problems, but I know I really need my ADD meds. But when It comes to meds for my Social anxiety I hesitate... I’ll start a SSRI Med then stop after awhile thinking it will effect my already poor memory😥🥴.

That’s cool.....I’m on pretty low meds, abilify 7.5mg and that’s it....I do still believe it’s the meds because I really only had one episode lasting one month and that was almost ten years ago. I might have mild depression scattered in but nothing I think would cause damage. Also my genotype is sensitive to meds as far as working memory. Luckily fish oil is helping my mind quite a bit. I’m going back to school for a masters in library this spring. I would try science again but the mouse allergy is pretty limiting. Anyway my million dollar advice is omega 3s for neuroprotection....

Congrats on the upcoming masters, that's cool! I might try the omega 3 thing as a preventive measure. If it's mostly due to meds, then at least that part is encouraging for me to try and minimize that. I'm seeing my psychiatrist this week, so I'll be sure to get his input on meds vs nature in terms of cognitive decline, I'm curious whether he has any more insights on that.

I'm also curious if you have the same experience I do where the bipolar forces you to really re-evaluate who you are. For me, not being able to do some of the things I love anymore has led to a sort of identity crisis where I sometimes don't really know who I am anymore. I imagine you might have experienced something similar when you weren't able to do science anymore.

Thanks yes I don’t define myself entirely by my job anymore for one but at the same time while in cognitive decline I didn’t feel like me anymore...I was the salutatorian of my high school class, got my PhD then I was looking at learning entry level helpdesk just to have something I could still learn and survive on but I didn’t identify with it because being smart was always part of my identity, in fact a key part. If you asked people I was either smart or quiet. The fish oil has allowed me to feel that again though not to the same extent. Sorry I hope this doesn’t sound stuckup....I mean the intelligence was a gift from birth but I still identified with it as part of who I am/was so I’m glad to have it back.

It doesn't sound stuckup at all, and I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I'm happy for you that at least the omega 3 is helping to some extent.

I don't know if you like Star Trek at all, but have you seen that Voyager episode called Riddles where Tuvok loses most of his skills and memory? The cognitive decline thing always kind of reminds me of that, and his frustration is really relatable... (Hope that wasn't too nerdy. )

I agree with the fish oil advice. I felt less fuzzy after taking it.

I had one experience of psychosis and it ramped up for a few weeks before it became severe. I am also med sensitive and was on a very low dose of an antipsychotic afterward. I don't need a mood stabilizer and like you I've never had true depression.

My doctors first diagnosed me as bipolar and now they are calling what I experienced 'brief reative psychosis'. They said it was most likely caused by a hormonal and/or adrenal imbalance along with the PTSD I was experiencing at the time.

Do you feel you were correctly diagnosed? Ten years without another episode would potentially indicate you do not cycle and may not have a mood disorder. Has your doctor ever considered weaning you slowly off meds to see if they are truly needed?

I may actually have a mood disorder. It is too soon to tell, but after 9 months stable my doctors agreed it was time to try life without meds to see how I respond. I feel a bit like a science experiment, but I am also curious and feel I need to give myself a chance.

Just curious if any of this has ever come up with your doctors given your long run of stability.

Just went out and bought some fish oil supplements, we'll see how well it helps. I was reading up on it and saw that some studies found it also helps with depression. That would definitely be nice since I get depressed a lot! I don't imagine it will be a silver bullet but I'll take all the advantages I can get. Thanks again for the advice.

I stopped watching voyager at some point mostly due to time constraints but that sounds like a cool episode, I’ll have to look into it.

I feel I was correctly diagnosed because it only takes one manic episode to be considered bipolar, you don’t need the depression. Plus genetically I have a lot of bipolar and sz markers, some rare. According to the pdoc it’s the meds keeping my moods in check because APs can be a mood stabilizer. They thought I might have a transient psychosis due to work place pressure originally which is why they allowed me to taper meds down to zero. I tried twice, the first time I went from ten to 7.5 to 5mg....at five mg I was just the most irritable I’ve ever been in my life...I suspect I was still manic. So we went back up to 7.5 my last working dose and stuck with it for a year. My first pdoc was all about getting me off the meds. So two years out we tried again, it took at least a year to taper for me...we were going to do it right this time. I was off meds for nine months then I started getting psychosis again. There was no indication of mania, I just started hearing knocking all the time, the occasional music or hello out of no where. So whatever it is is recurring psychosis. I went back on 7.5mg to stop it before it fully started. This is why I normally post in the psychosis forum. I feel it’s the main problem not the moods but technically I’m bipolar so occasionally I post here. I personally feel I’m long cycling. There is another guy kinda like this called Mark Vonnegut, Kurt Vonnegut’s son. He’s a doctor now but had like six month of psychosis, recovered for like twenty years without meds then relapsed....this was in two books, one was eden express. Anyway he was originally diagnosed sz then later bipolar.

I don’t think I’ve lost IQ points but something (either the episodes or the medication) has impacted my memory in a negative way. Big things, like my daughter choking on a carrot and me performing the Heimlich are being lost in my long term memory. Also, when I was doing Lumosity brain training, all areas were above average except memory.

Just watched the voyager episode....pretty good and emotionally accurate.

Makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I am wondering if I might have a similar type of cycle. So far, I haven't had any psychosis creep back up. I stay vigilant though because I know there is no cure and relapse can come at any time.

I hope you never have psychosis again. Are you off meds? If so how long? My understanding is relapse typically occurs within a year off meds if it’s going to happen at least based on psychosis research but there’s so little out there. The vigilance is the worst, in some ways I was jumping at every sound off meds...

Thanks! Me too. I was on the lowest dose possible of Geodon for 9 months and then I tapered off in September. So it seems it is just too soon to tell at this point. I could never tell if the meds were doing anything for me or not.

My mother had an episode similar to mine about 15 years ago. She refused her diagnosis and never took meds. She hasn't had another episode since. She was going through menopause at the time. My doctor was thinking it is possible she and I are ultra sensitive to hormonal swings. That wouldn't surprise me. All meds hit me hard and birth control made me feel like a raging B for months until I adjusted.

Yes, the vigilance can feel daunting, but I'm framing it in my mind as the service I am offering myself and my family so that we never have to experience the trauma we went through before. It feels less like work when I just view it as something proactive I'm doing to help myself catch any off behavior before it spirals out of control.

Yeah, I thought so too. Only, being Star Trek, everything is of course AOK in the end. Too bad real life isn't like that.



I tend to find that the most motivating attitude as well. My kids are a major motivation for me to get treatment. Otherwise I'm not sure if I would have, honestly.

My memory and thinking problems go in extended cycles. At one end, I have allot of trouble coming up with words to express my thoughts, I feel that it is a challenge to put a five letter word together. On the other end, out of nowhere, these large words can pop out of my mouth, nit realizing until then that I actually understand what they mean, One one end, simple things can confuse me, At the other end of the cycle, solutions can come to me on more complex problems. Unfortunately, my being able to utilize my innate intelligence does not last long. Did you know that I actually failed an IQ test when I was younger? LOL