[*Beth*]

It's difficult for me to understand the term "racing thoughts". I feel like I always have noise in my mind...thoughts, memories, sounds coming one after another. Yet, medication doesn't stop any of it, at least, not consistently. How can I know what "normal" thoughts are, as opposed to "racing" thoughts? Would someone describe what your racing thoughts feel like?

[BeyondtheRainbow]

When I am not having racing thoughts I can transcribe my thoughts as I am doing now. I may have other noises in my head but I can ignore them.

When my thoughts are racing if I try to just write what I am thinking it will make absolutely no sense. A sentence will start and then end with another thought and the thoughts just pile up on top of each other with none of them completing. I tried writing my thoughts when racing once and it was so hard to even "listen" to it because it was so overwhelming,like the ocean I love when calm during a hurricane.

I have a hard time determining when I have racing thoughts, but my therapist says she can tell by the way I talk. Apparently, I have tangential speech when my thoughts race. For example, I might say something like, "Yesterday, I spent some time hanging out with my dad. We went to the mall and bought some stuff. I did eat like 2 apples for breakfast this morning. Also, I'm going to buy a new iPad. But 2 days ago, my mom said that she lost her phone charger, so I had to go in the garage to help her find it."

I don't really notice it in the moment, so someone has to point it out to me. But usually the thoughts are random. It's like I want to say or do a billion things at once, and I can't seem to pick which thing to say or do, so I try to say or do all of them at once. lol.

[sarahsweets]

Hey @BethRags: I thought this article had some good descriptions of racing thoughts.

Racing thoughts are more than just thinking fast. Rather, they are a rapid succession of thoughts that cannot be quieted and continue without restraint. They can progressively take over a person's functional consciousness and gallop out of control to a point where daily life can be affected. This symptom can become so severe that it interferes with the ability to sleep.

Racing Thoughts and Bipolar Disorder

The famous German psychiatrist, Emil Kraepelin, from the late 1800s and early 1900s, described flight of ideas (another way of saying racing thoughts) like:

"In states of excitement they [manic patients] are not able to follow systematically a definite train of thought, but they continually jump from one series of ideas to a wholly different one and then let this one drop again immediately. Any question directed to them is at first perhaps answered quite correctly, but with that are associated a great many side remarks which have only a very loose connection, or soon none at all, with the original subject."

I can definitely relate to what Kraepelin wrote, but it is most pertaining to the hypomanias I have experienced, from mild to more severe. In the case of my full blown manias, it can sometimes become even more extreme. With what Kraepelin described, my thoughts can almost feel like multiple radio stations (with DJs and music, and/or thoughts) playing simultaneously. That can be quite disturbing. Sometimes in my mind, I may even repeat phrases or words rapidly or the thoughts take on a musical rhythm, which sometimes even become vocalized. Or such rapid thinking, vocalized, can even turn into a kind of stutter it is so fast that I can't even keep up with them vocally. At its worst, the thoughts feel as if I am trying to juggle many many balls in my head coming from all directions, trying hard not to let them fall. Trying hard to organize them, but not being able to adequately. It can build up into a chaos that becomes so extreme that it makes me literally scream. This is especially the case during my severe manic episodes with mixed features.

Another type of interference I experience during racing thoughts are clang associations and a tendency to rhyme. In the case of the rhyming, there can be some appropriateness in the meanings, but other times, not so much, then as Kraepelin mentioned, the next sentences go off in a totally different direction, which is usually not a direction within my direct control.

I am a big fan of the composer Beethoven. Some people have speculated that he had bipolar disorder. If this is the case, I believe his string quartet, Grosse Fuge Op. 133, may be an example of a flight of ideas, of a sort. I wrote about an experience at a concert that included the Grosse Fug. Though some of it (especially the beginning) seems from a stable mind, a little later it becomes more like flight of thoughts. Anyone who wishes to hear this piece can listen to it on Youtube at

The beauty of this video is that it literally shows what I interpret as multiple thoughts expressed simultaneously. What is written as captions at the top then later bottom of the video is quite interesting. When first heard, people were quite perplexed. Beethoven was even asked to rewrite this finale to the opus. Luckily this first version was not lost. In modern times, only the original version is usually played.

When I heard Beethoven's Grosse Fuge live, I was lucky enough to be sitting in the first row of the concert hall. The experience for me was intense and I understood it. At the end of the piece, the musicians in the quartet were visibly shaken from the experience. There, I knew that they understood flight of ideas, too, from this pieced. It was both a mental and physical experience for them. They were spent and frazzled. I remember locking eyes with the violist. She knew I truly understood, too.

[*Beth*]

BeyondtheRainbow, bluebicycle, sarahsweets, Birdy, thank you for taking the time to reply to my question.

sarahsweets - it's a well-written article. It explains racing thoughts thoroughly and succinctly.

Birdy, thanks for the link to Grosse Fuge Op. 133. I am also a Beethovan fan, but I have never heard that piece before. Pretty much says it all without saying a single word, doesn't it?! What's truly telling is that as I understand, B. wrote it when he was deaf. So that music was emerging from his mind. Sure, memory...but even more, the "sounds" of Beethovan's inner life. It's fascinating and brilliant!

So thanks to each of you. It is a bright blessing to be among peers.

[Jester's Rags]

For me it’s thoughts tangled with anxiety. I think of things that were, things that happened. Things that might happen. Fictional conversations based on these hypothetical situations I come up with. Thoughts bouncing around that make my brain hurt.

And then all of those thoughts splintering off into their own tangle. Trying to stop just leads me down a different path with many more thought roads. I’ve gone through this in the past week. Things have calmed down the past couple of days.

Have you ever seen the experiment where there are hundreds of mouse traps set up and each has a ping pong ball on it? All it takes is someone to drop one more ball in and they all start firing with no pattern, rhyme or reason. That’s as close to a visual description I can think of.

[franz kafka]

I can tell I have racing thoughts when I keep rambling and losing track of what I'm saying because my speech can't keep up with my thoughts. When this happens, I need someone to redirect me back to the conversation.

[yellow_fleurs]

This is a great question and one I don't know the answer to for myself, but am trying to figure out. I get jumbled, distractible, quickly moving and unorganized thoughts sometimes. I also get fast, panicky thoughts sometimes. I don't know if these are racing thoughts as in something you'd see with bipolar disorder, or just a symptom of anxiety, or the way my brain always kind of functions, sometimes made worse by mood/anxiety, but maybe more of an underlying attention issue or a busy mind at baseline. My therapist thinks almost all of my issues are anxiety related, but I can't figure out if a mood state is making my thoughts race and increasing anxiety, or if anxiety is making my thoughts race and making me irritable, etc.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Jester's Rags

For me it’s thoughts tangled with anxiety. I think of things that were, things that happened. Things that might happen. Fictional conversations based on these hypothetical situations I come up with. Thoughts bouncing around that make my brain hurt.

And then all of those thoughts splintering off into their own tangle. Trying to stop just leads me down a different path with many more thought roads. I’ve gone through this in the past week. Things have calmed down the past couple of days.

Have you ever seen the experiment where there are hundreds of mouse traps set up and each has a ping pong ball on it? All it takes is someone to drop one more ball in and they all start firing with no pattern, rhyme or reason. That’s as close to a visual description I can think of.

Perfect description, in my experience. Wow. Yes. The visual you've given is spot on. This (I do want to TRIGGER this video, just because it's so overstimulating)

[*Beth*]

Thank you J Rags, kafka, sunshine-yellow flowers!

Everything on this thread makes so much sense to me. It's one thing to hear symptoms from a doctor, something else entirely to share experiences with peers.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by Jester's Rags

For me it’s thoughts tangled with anxiety. I think of things that were, things that happened. Things that might happen. Fictional conversations based on these hypothetical situations I come up with. Thoughts bouncing around that make my brain hurt.

And then all of those thoughts splintering off into their own tangle. Trying to stop just leads me down a different path with many more thought roads. I’ve gone through this in the past week. Things have calmed down the past couple of days.

Have you ever seen the experiment where there are hundreds of mouse traps set up and each has a ping pong ball on it? All it takes is someone to drop one more ball in and they all start firing with no pattern, rhyme or reason. That’s as close to a visual description I can think of.

I'm still fairly new to my bipolar dx, so I don't have much to add except to say that this matches my experience quite closely.

[Jester's Rags]

BethRags,

I found something I posted a long time ago. This is what racing thoughts look like when they're written down.

What the.....?

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Jester's Rags

BethRags,

I found something I posted a long time ago. This is what racing thoughts look like when they're written down.

What the.....?

Thank you for sharing that. What a terrific idea, to actually write out your racing thoughts.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Yes, thanks for that! I find it helpful to see other experiences like this because it makes me realize I've had similar things happen during hypomania. I looked in my journals and noticed I have documented some of it. Normally I only write a few words about how I'm doing but when I'm hypomanic it tends to turn into a long semi-coherent rant. As long as it's not too bad I find the tangential thinking can actually help boost my creativity, but when dysphoric it can get pretty intrusive.

Somebody else mentioned having fictional conversations in your head, and I've had that as well, to the point that I lose track of my surroundings and it almost becomes real. I have my eyes open but I don't really see anything anymore, I'm all caught up in my head. I don't know if that's related to racing thoughts or not but I've noticed it gets worse during episodes.

[luvyrself]

When I have racing thoughts, all my reminder stickies are a mess and so is my to do list. Tangential thoughts, hard to prioritize. Whew. What an experience, Bird Dancer. Yes, many brilliant artists have been bipolar. Sometimes I call myself an idiot savant because I can make certain leaps for family decisions that prove to be right tho my thoughts might sound disorganized. A brilliant bipolar therapist friend says not to punish myself for not always thinking in a linear way. I find racing thoughts to be uncomfortable but when I have them I can’t always take the time to rest.

[Tucson]

Originally Posted by Jester's Rags

For me it’s thoughts tangled with anxiety. I think of things that were, things that happened. Things that might happen. Fictional conversations based on these hypothetical situations I come up with. Thoughts bouncing around that make my brain hurt.

And then all of those thoughts splintering off into their own tangle. Trying to stop just leads me down a different path with many more thought roads. I’ve gone through this in the past week. Things have calmed down the past couple of days.

Have you ever seen the experiment where there are hundreds of mouse traps set up and each has a ping pong ball on it? All it takes is someone to drop one more ball in and they all start firing with no pattern, rhyme or reason. That’s as close to a visual description I can think of.

This describes me very well. Fortunately, it is uncommon, perhaps due to meds, but still happens from time to time.

[Fuzzybear]

It’s when... tangled and ensnared with anxiety... their lies and repeated lies in my head and other unwanted lies and scary and sub optimal thoughts and memories talk louder and faster than I can counter them... not the best description but it’s what I have to share right now

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Jester's Rags

For me it’s thoughts tangled with anxiety. I think of things that were, things that happened. Things that might happen. Fictional conversations based on these hypothetical situations I come up with. Thoughts bouncing around that make my brain hurt.

And then all of those thoughts splintering off into their own tangle. Trying to stop just leads me down a different path with many more thought roads. I’ve gone through this in the past week. Things have calmed down the past couple of days.

Have you ever seen the experiment where there are hundreds of mouse traps set up and each has a ping pong ball on it? All it takes is someone to drop one more ball in and they all start firing with no pattern, rhyme or reason. That’s as close to a visual description I can think of.

I find this a good description. I “suck with words” often although I know I am able to talk “lucidly” and rationally if the listener is receptive.. but my brain argues and ... the mouse traps. Good description.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

It’s when... tangled and ensnared with anxiety... their lies and repeated lies in my head and other unwanted lies and scary and sub optimal thoughts and memories talk louder and faster than I can counter them... not the best description but it’s what I have to share right now

Yep - that makes sense to me. Very much so. Maybe for some people (for example, you and I) BP and trauma tend to lead to the sort of "racing thoughts" you've described.

[bpcyclist]

Some degree of raciness is almost a constant with me, unless I am really, really medicated and sort of comatose. It is kind of my baseline state.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Currently hypomanic, and I've been paying some attention to this racing thoughts stuff. Here's what I've noticed so far, I wonder if any of this sounds familiar to anyone else.

• While I'm doing one thing I keep thinking of other things to do and new stuff keeps getting added to my mental todo list. I'm multitasking like crazy and getting a kick out of doing as many things as possible as fast as possible.
• Losing my train of thought a lot while talking or forgetting what the subject was.
• Can't stop my mind to get to sleep.
• If I do manage to doze off it's this sort of half-sleep where my mind keeps going and I have these really feverish dreams.

In general I'm just doing everything at turbo speed, fidgeting a lot, hands are shaking, pressured speech, etc. Before this I was depressed for a month or so and then a major family emergency came along where I had to jump in and it almost immediately turned into hypomania. At first it was really anxious and agitated energy and I didn't immediately recognize it as hypomania, but somewhere along the line euphoria kicked in. Now that the emergency seems to be averted it's mostly fun and games, although I'm really agitated at the lack of time I have to do everything I want to do.

[Row Jimmy]

For me, racing thoughts don't allow me to process the present. Racing thoughts get in the way of being mindful. We can't slow our roll. Instead of controlling life, life controls me.

[luvyrself]

For me its like having a bumble bee inside my head without the bee-buzz, buzz, buzz.
Well, this time Im having an extremely creative period with it, so I cant complain-too much LOL

[*Beth*]

Yes, I can relate to all of these. Fluffy Dinosaur, I can multitask until I feel like I'm spinning in a carnival ride. I always did really well at jobs...until I was burning myself out, taking on so much.

This thread is really interesting.