[sarahsweets]

I have seen a lot of stuff lately (not just here) about bipolar being a mind over matter thing. I have read success stories where someone will read some prolific authors' success story about overcoming bipolar that completely ignores science, past experiences and childhood. I believe there can be success stories. I believe you can get your bp under control and manage it well. I also believe there are people who will suffer for years, if not their lifetime with bp.
I am a proponent of medication to treat bp. Sure, there are people I guess who can live without meds But IME those people are few and far between. I believe in the science of BP and that its a brain disorder-chemical imbalance and that past experiences can make it better or worse. A combo of nature and nurture if you will. I would consider myself a success story as far as how I function but this is with a well defined plan of medications and in the past, therapy. I had to come to terms with what was biological and what was behavioral and what experiences from my past impacted my life. I think that in most cases medications are a must. This doesnt mean that meds are guaranteed to help or that meds do not fail. I just think its one of the tools that can promote wellness. I actually get offended when people say they overcame bipolar with a behavior change and positive thinking because I think it does a disservice to those of us who suffer. I think there can be an anti-med sentiment by people who use mind over matter and that we who use meds can be seen as weak, sheep or a slave to "big pharma". What do you all think?

[FluffyDinosaur]

I completely agree with you. I don't believe you can just wish BD away, and like you I do get offended when people pretend that you can. That sort of stuff promotes stigma and validates the general public's opinion that people with mental illness are "weak", in my opinion.

It reminds me of that movie "A Beautiful Mind" about that mathematician (John Nash) who struggles with schizophrenia. It's a good movie, but in the end he manages to overcome his schizophrenia by sort of "out thinking" it, and it's such a shame because it just propagates this notion that people with mental illness have themselves to blame for not trying hard enough.

For me the genetic component and my family history of BD is actually sort of helpful in the sense that it makes it more tangible, and therefore it's easier to accept that I have the illness and need medication. Which is not to say that I don't strive to keep meds to a minimum, of course.

[bpcyclist]

Interesting thread, Sarah. Personally, I believe bipolar disorder is an as yet ill-understood electrochemical, neuroendocrine, and anatomic disorder of the human brain. Some are more severely affected than others. There is as of 2020, no known cure, though a very small percentage of patients may enter long-term remission. Some of these people may do well absent meds.

For the rest of us, symptoms may be out of control sans meds, more constantly for some, less frequently for others. For me, positive thinking and yoga and mind over matter are all terrific and useful, but they will not address the problem of thinking I am Jesus or the president or that infrared cameras are in my walls. Those kinds of symptoms are way beyond positive thinking in me. But it would be lovely if that were not the case, on that, I do agree.

[Crazy Hitch]

I totally agree with you! I can't function without meds. Tried ... and it didn't end well. When I'm my most stable is when I'm on the right kinds of meds, because I've certainly been on meds in the past that have not worked. Meds are not an option in my life - I HAVE to take them. This is 150% a chemical imbalance.

[fern46]

I can see both sides. I've lived both sides. I agree with bpcyclist that we're dealing with an electrochemical, neuroendocrine, and anatomic disorder of the human brain. I think understanding that better will lead to future breakthroughs. Right now, I think people see the reactions we experience as a chain of events, but really it is more of a complex web of interactions.

As for positive thinking... In some cases I think positive thinking is actually kryptonite. If your thoughts are reinforcing themselves and you're on a high, adding a dose of positive thinking to that can fuel a fire.

I believe it is all about the ability to see where you are, where you are going and where you'd like to be. From there you can see which forces are at play and then apply counter force or supporting force to get you there. That is incredibly tricky to do. I was successful for a time without meds. I believe it can be done at times. However, at least for me, things can shift incredibly quickly and I have learned that sometimes meds are the counter force I need to shift back to stability. I am in that boat at this very moment. I am using the right tool at the right time to keep myself and my family safe. My pride hurts a little, but that is an opportunity for personal growth for me. I feel broken at times, but my husband told me the other day I would be broken if I wasn't willing to do the right thing to address my issues. Admitting I needed help was incredibly hard, but it set me free.

Meds can also be a force that causes instability and more issues than we would have otherwise. I feel they are used as a solution far too often when in some cases they are better served as a situational tool that constantly needs to be reevaluated for value. For some, meds need to continually be in the mix. I recognize that. For others, they can be a crutch to get you through a rough patch. Both can be true. I think insight, environment, support, and one's personal history all play a role.

Most of all, I think it is important we honor each other and recognize how incredibly unique we all are. We should be brave and honest and point out when people are potentially falling victim to delusions, but we should also consider that everyone's strength of will to control their own thoughts and emotions varies. Because of that, everything everyone has said here is 100% accurate because it is true for them. I support you all in whatever works for you and encourage you to change whatever is not working. We all deserve to find health in whatever form that comes in.

I learned a lot from this current cycle of my disorder. I will take what I learned and carry it with me to hopefully make even better choices for myself in the future.

And finally, to everyone who taught me how episodes manifest through offering their experiences here... I want to extend my deepest gratitude. Your stories of triumph and struggle helped me see issues when they happened to me this time around. It gave me better insight. That helped me stop a train before it went off the rails which is why I am still at home with my family right now instead of in a hospital. I can never thank you enough. You all are my heroes.

[Gabyunbound]

I'm someone who has posted about how self-care strategies have helped my stability a great deal (i.e. exercise, part-time work rather than full-time, therapy, etc.), but in that post -because it wasn't relevant to the OP's question- I don't think I mentioned that all of this wouldn't be enough but for the meds I take for BP. I wouldn't have stability without meds, however, for me, it has taken a combination of self-care (lifestyle changes, whatever you want to call it) and meds.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by fern46

I can see both sides. I've lived both sides. I agree with bpcyclist that we're dealing with an electrochemical, neuroendocrine, and anatomic disorder of the human brain. I think understanding that better will lead to future breakthroughs. Right now, I think people see the reactions we experience as a chain of events, but really it is more of a complex web of interactions.

As for positive thinking... In some cases I think positive thinking is actually kryptonite. If your thoughts are reinforcing themselves and you're on a high, adding a dose of positive thinking to that can fuel a fire.

I believe it is all about the ability to see where you are, where you are going and where you'd like to be. From there you can see which forces are at play and then apply counter force or supporting force to get you there. That is incredibly tricky to do. I was successful for a time without meds. I believe it can be done at times. However, at least for me, things can shift incredibly quickly and I have learned that sometimes meds are the counter force I need to shift back to stability. I am in that boat at this very moment. I am using the right tool at the right time to keep myself and my family safe. My pride hurts a little, but that is an opportunity for personal growth for me. I feel broken at times, but my husband told me the other day I would be broken if I wasn't willing to do the right thing to address my issues. Admitting I needed help was incredibly hard, but it set me free.

Meds can also be a force that causes instability and more issues than we would have otherwise. I feel they are used as a solution far too often when in some cases they are better served as a situational tool that constantly needs to be reevaluated for value. For some, meds need to continually be in the mix. I recognize that. For others, they can be a crutch to get you through a rough patch. Both can be true. I think insight, environment, support, and one's personal history all play a role.

Most of all, I think it is important we honor each other and recognize how incredibly unique we all are. We should be brave and honest and point out when people are potentially falling victim to delusions, but we should also consider that everyone's strength of will to control their own thoughts and emotions varies. Because of that, everything everyone has said here is 100% accurate because it is true for them. I support you all in whatever works for you and encourage you to change whatever is not working. We all deserve to find health in whatever form that comes in.

I learned a lot from this current cycle of my disorder. I will take what I learned and carry it with me to hopefully make even better choices for myself in the future.

And finally, to everyone who taught me how episodes manifest through offering their experiences here... I want to extend my deepest gratitude. Your stories of triumph and struggle helped me see issues when they happened to me this time around. It gave me better insight. That helped me stop a train before it went off the rails which is why I am still at home with my family right now instead of in a hospital. I can never thank you enough. You all are my heroes.

I am glad you are advocating for yourself, fern. Hugs!!!

[Nammu]

I think there’s a lot of people who talk docs into the BP diagnosis and or self diagnosis then go on to say they wished way their illness. BP is more than just up and down moods. And it’s not going up and down in a day, that’s BPD. Medication is a big part of stability but too being on too much meds can keep you in an unstable state. There is coping skills and lifestyle components to stability too, it’s not the whole ball of wax. Oh I don’t know what I’m trying to say. Just beware of those that claim they beat BP by wishful thinking, they were never BP

[Rick7892]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

... I think that in most cases medications are a must. ...

I am happy for and envious of everyone who can effectively treat their BP with meds!

I am envious because I have a multitude of sensitivities to medications (including psych). So far, I haven't had a medication that has been effective and tolerable for treating my BP. I once had a psychiatrist who thought I was making up my sensitivities in my mind, so he gave me another psychiatric diagnosis that is on my medical record now. He was unaware of developments in the past 10-15 years that there can be a genetic basis for people metabolizing meds differently. Finding out that there could be a genetic basis for not being able to take meds has helped me not beat myself up and feel ashamed for not being able to take meds. For example, see Mayo Clinic's Drug-Gene Testing

Pessimistic thinking that just because I can't take meds or must take meds even though the side effects are so bad I question why I am here does not help me either. Depression is part of my BP and pessimism takes me to dark, dark places...

Positive thinking hasn't cured me either. I have been like this long enough to know that temporarily feeling well in my case is a false hope because another round of mania/hypomania or depression will be coming again. When I start feeling like I got BP licked, and I am going to save everyone by telling them how to do it like I did it is a red warning flag of grandiosity that my mania/hypomania has again returned or is imminent.

One day at a time

[FluffyDinosaur]

@Rick7892: I'm sorry to hear that meds are such an issue for you. It must be incredibly frustrating to not even have that to pin your hopes to. I definitely believe people can react "abnormally" (i.e., not according to "the book") to meds. It's happened to me in the past with some meds, too.

As for what everyone else said, I completely agree that a good treatment plan should include both meds and coping skills/lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. That's exactly why I have both a Pdoc and a therapist. The therapy, for me, is more of a preventative measure. I can try to make my life as stress-free and stable as possible (although I'm utterly failing at that right now) and in that way try to prevent episodes from starting. To an extent the therapy also helps me recover after an episode. Coping skills help me when the episodes are still mild. But when the symptoms become more severe, there's no way I can manage it without meds.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Nammu

I think there’s a lot of people who talk docs into the BP diagnosis and or self diagnosis then go on to say they wished way their illness. BP is more than just up and down moods. And it’s not going up and down in a day, that’s BPD. Medication is a big part of stability but too being on too much meds can keep you in an unstable state. There is coping skills and lifestyle components to stability too, it’s not the whole ball of wax. Oh I don’t know what I’m trying to say. Just beware of those that claim they beat BP by wishful thinking, they were never BP

I agree.

[The Black Dog]

I think meds are an important part of the puzzle for feeling well. I think even more importantly is having the relationship with a doctor so that if/when things do get worse you already have that avenue for yourself.

[ducky2030]

I agree there is a lot of confusion among general public on BPD vs BD

[luvyrself]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

I completely agree with you. I don't believe you can just wish BD away, and like you I do get offended when people pretend that you can. That sort of stuff promotes stigma and validates the general public's opinion that people with mental illness are "weak", in my opinion.

It reminds me of that movie "A Beautiful Mind" about that mathematician (John Nash) who struggles with schizophrenia. It's a good movie, but in the end he manages to overcome his schizophrenia by sort of "out thinking" it, and it's such a shame because it just propagates this notion that people with mental illness have themselves to blame for not trying hard enough.

For me the genetic component and my family history of BD is actually sort of helpful in the sense that it makes it more tangible, and therefore it's easier to accept that I have the illness and need medication. Which is not to say that I don't strive to keep meds to a minimum, of course.

--The version I know is that John Nash retired and then, with less stress, was able to drop the meds. For me, stress or the lack of it are the biggest factor that influence my bipolar. Meds greatly help me function, and I adjust them considerably. Huge genetic component in my family as well. Some refused meds

[luvyrself]

Originally Posted by The Black Dog

I think meds are an important part of the puzzle for feeling well. I think even more importantly is having the relationship with a doctor so that if/when things do get worse you already have that avenue for yourself.

--I love your screen name. I want to rename my terrier Winston because Churchill called his depression The Black Dog. He painted landscapes to ease his mind.
Such an amazing man!

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by luvyrself

--The version I know is that John Nash retired and then, with less stress, was able to drop the meds. For me, stress or the lack of it are the biggest factor that influence my bipolar. Meds greatly help me function, and I adjust them considerably. Huge genetic component in my family as well. Some refused meds

Yes, that sounds a lot more plausible! Wish Hollywood didn't feel the need to romanticize everything so much.