So, I'm going to start with a topic that's a little off kilter, but relate it back. I promise.. I am a bit appalled by this to the point I just have to express it to someone, so here it goes.

When I was homeless, I decided to spend some time everyday at church. I was not raised Catholic but converted a few years back. I picked up a bunch of booklets on all kinds of crap just to read in my spare time when I was there. I happened to pick up one on homosexuality. The view I was taught is NOT reflected in these books and I am absolutely appalled that something written as recent as 2007 would even cradle such ignorant and downright destructive ideas that have no basis in reality.

I won't spew all it's nonsense but the I will put in quotes parts that are verbatim, I'll sum up the issue from the get-go. They focus on "early identification of homosexuality, in children." ... let's not even begin to talk about how psychologically unethical, and unsound it is to attribute sexual attraction and feelings to a CHILD... but anyway...

3 guidelines to help prevent homosexuality.

1. A male child has to have a male parent he interacts with, if the house happens to be a one parent household and it's not the male parent, "in that case it is to be hoped he develops as a heterosexual."

2. Mothers must avoid over-mothering, especial single mothers, because that may lead "to the kind of relationship with her son which, in turn, is conductive to homosexual proclivities."

and my personal favorite.

3. "Parents should give attention to the very early preschool behavior of their children. A boy who does not take part in scrambling or physical games with his peers, who is constantly being protected by his mother from the neighborhood "roughnecks", who is buried in books with high academic achievement, has some of the characteristics found in the person with SSA. (Same-sex attraction). The point to be made is that all three kinds of conditions together constitute the possibility for the development of male homosexual tendency."

.... can we just take a minute to say they LITERALLY went as far as to say, you're smart and have interest in school and not sports or being a bully? GAY! Not that any of the other points are any better.

It's shameful such ignorance exists in this world. My point here isn't to get religion involved or pull someone to a side, but opinions needs to be based in reality and not irrational fear based on no real science. It's OK not to agree with portrayed lifestyle choices and have opposition to it personally. But please, don't be drawn in to such chaotic and demeaning crap. It's sickening.



Now, relating it back -- I guess the same holds true for the mentally ill, but I don't have a booklet on the topic. I guess if I did it would probably be called: "The tell-tale signs of the mentally ill: a handbook to igniting fear of someone different." Ugh.



Have you come across literature that has been factless and really pushed the narrative of mentally ill being dangerous, sub par, or to the point of sub-human? Just curious, I guess.

[unaluna]

Holy carp.

[Bipolarchic14]

I try to stay away from churches so I have not been exposed to demeaning literature. I have heard of conversion camps. Hard to believe things like that exist. Honestly with all the corruption going on in the Catholic Church, they don’t have any room to judge people with mental illness or homosexuality or anything else.

[*Beth*]

That literature sounds like it was written in 1950. It's absurd. Fortunately, I don't recall ever seeing such an ignorant type of reading material about mental illness. I know it's out there, though. Also, the church where you picked that stuff up sounds super conservative. In my experience, most Catholic chrches are not so rigid.

[wolftrap]

I was raised Catholic (now 'lapsed') and I never heard or saw anything like this! I knew some people in fundamentalist denominations who spouted such drivel. I have not heard of anything like this for mental illness, but, unfortunately, it is probably out there.

[Victoria'smom]

The pope doesn't stand with that church on matters like sexual orientation. He advocates patient centered recovery for mentally ill.

I do wanna be clear -- I don't think this representation is the official view or take of the Catholic Church. When you convert to Catholicism you have to go through RCIA and I spent many years reading and working through understanding the Catholic Church. Homosexuality was not a big topic, but from what I read, and with conversations with a priest and things, it definitely left me with the impression that, the bible says what it says about homosexuality, but people are people and all people are God's people. It ran along the same vein as marrying outside the Church. In my area that still such a taboo and treated like sacrilege. I remember the priest mentioning that topic saying -- "They believe in God, still hold core values and marrying someone who shares at least major ones, and is of Christian faith. I think it could be a lot worse." -- he was very "modern" I suppose in his ideas.

For what its worth -- like I said I converted to Catholicism and while I'm not devout as I should be, I do believe in a lot of core principles there, for me. My intention wasn't to blame the Catholic Church for what this booklet says, or pretend it's indicative of the people as a whole. I definitely don't think it is. I've learned through interactions with those who are very devout, their attitude is more "we need to as a society embrace Jesus' teachings, and it's hard because we are stubborn, finite people. I pray everyday we learn a little more how to embrace what was taught to us by Christ, not society." That said, we've seen the Pope ruffle some feathers with his comments on homosexuality, but I think he's doing what we all wish we could do -- step aside and really apply what God's taught us.



This isn't a Sunday School Lesson! I don't mean to make it that, just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to put down religion, specifically one I personally identify with. I do think, however, it's a sign of we don't know how deep the problem runs. It's a lot like the protests with police brutality and hatred, this presidency brought out a lot of people in numbers I've never dreamed existed based on my limited perception of the world. I'd say this probably falls in that scope, too.



But, I did mean to redirect the conversation to mental health and stigma, and I don't think I made it very evident-- I was saying, did you ever have a circumstance were stigma played a role in a social setting such as at church. I haven't had much issue with that.


I wasn't going to write again because I was kinda hoping this topic would die out, but since it's returned to the surface I figured I should clarify my intentions, what I'm trying to say, and where I wanted to see this threat go. I'm sorry if I didn't do a good job of that the first time around.

[*Beth*]

No worry...I got what you meant from your first post. The anti-gay thing just grabbed my attention.

[wolftrap]

No worries! Thanks for your thoughtful explanation.

[Daonnachd]

I am a Protestant, as are my in-laws, though I am more liberal than they. When I was hospitalised my MIL had the nerve to tell me that if I had a stronger relationship with God I wouldn't have mental health issues. I was gobsmacked. I wanted to get up and walk away - then tell the hospital staff to escort them out of the facilities.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Daonnachd

I am a Protestant, as are my in-laws, though I am more liberal than they. When I was hospitalised my MIL had the nerve to tell me that if I had a stronger relationship with God I wouldn't have mental health issues. I was gobsmacked. I wanted to get up and walk away - then tell the hospital staff to escort them out of the facilities.

I think that is the worst and most cruel words anyone can speak to someone who has mental illness. My husband, who is highly suspicious of psych meds, tells me to "pray" when I feel depressed/anxious. I resent it terribly. I think it's a way for the person to not bother to listen.

[Crazy Hitch]

I don’t go to church anymore but when I was googling churches in my area there is legit one down the road that you can’t join if you’re on antidepressants. Not making that up.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

I don’t go to church anymore but when I was googling churches in my area there is legit one down the road that you can’t join if you’re on antidepressants. Not making that up.

I believe it. There are a number of religions that scorn the use of psychiatric medication. Some of them discourage (or ban) the use of any medical care and medication. I don't think anything on earth, or not much, causes me to feel angrier. I know a woman, for example, who was an artist, belonged to one of those religions, and went blind due to her refusal to have a routine cataract procedure done. Pathetic.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by MarcusAurelius

So, I'm going to start with a topic that's a little off kilter, but relate it back. I promise.. I am a bit appalled by this to the point I just have to express it to someone, so here it goes.

When I was homeless, I decided to spend some time everyday at church. I was not raised Catholic but converted a few years back. I picked up a bunch of booklets on all kinds of crap just to read in my spare time when I was there. I happened to pick up one on homosexuality. The view I was taught is NOT reflected in these books and I am absolutely appalled that something written as recent as 2007 would even cradle such ignorant and downright destructive ideas that have no basis in reality.

I won't spew all it's nonsense but the I will put in quotes parts that are verbatim, I'll sum up the issue from the get-go. They focus on "early identification of homosexuality, in children." ... let's not even begin to talk about how psychologically unethical, and unsound it is to attribute sexual attraction and feelings to a CHILD... but anyway...

3 guidelines to help prevent homosexuality.

1. A male child has to have a male parent he interacts with, if the house happens to be a one parent household and it's not the male parent, "in that case it is to be hoped he develops as a heterosexual."

2. Mothers must avoid over-mothering, especial single mothers, because that may lead "to the kind of relationship with her son which, in turn, is conductive to homosexual proclivities."

and my personal favorite.

3. "Parents should give attention to the very early preschool behavior of their children. A boy who does not take part in scrambling or physical games with his peers, who is constantly being protected by his mother from the neighborhood "roughnecks", who is buried in books with high academic achievement, has some of the characteristics found in the person with SSA. (Same-sex attraction). The point to be made is that all three kinds of conditions together constitute the possibility for the development of male homosexual tendency."

.... can we just take a minute to say they LITERALLY went as far as to say, you're smart and have interest in school and not sports or being a bully? GAY! Not that any of the other points are any better.

It's shameful such ignorance exists in this world. My point here isn't to get religion involved or pull someone to a side, but opinions needs to be based in reality and not irrational fear based on no real science. It's OK not to agree with portrayed lifestyle choices and have opposition to it personally. But please, don't be drawn in to such chaotic and demeaning crap. It's sickening.



Now, relating it back -- I guess the same holds true for the mentally ill, but I don't have a booklet on the topic. I guess if I did it would probably be called: "The tell-tale signs of the mentally ill: a handbook to igniting fear of someone different." Ugh.



Have you come across literature that has been factless and really pushed the narrative of mentally ill being dangerous, sub par, or to the point of sub-human? Just curious, I guess.

I have come across literature such as this. Factless and pushing narratives that don’t even belong in the “dark ages’ as you describe. It truly disgusts me. Thanks for posting.