[why98]

My ideas of reference are usually about random people saying mean things about me and plotting to hurt me. These thoughts used to really haunt me and hurt me. It got to where I stayed away from people in order to protect myself.

I read someting at goodtherapy.org that made me think. I would put the link her but the message board won't let me because I only have 8 posts. The article said:

"a person with low self-esteem or who is suspicious of other people might often feel that people are laughing at him or her."

I've been thinking about this for some time before I read it. I know my self esteem is not high. Could that be my problem instead of having ideas of reference? I'm going to the pdoc soon and will get his opinion.

What about you? Do you think you have low self esteem instead of ideas of reference? Or do you just think they're linked?

[*Beth*]

Hi why98, Can you explain what you mean by "ideas of reference"? Do you mean delusions?

[why98]

There are ideas of reference and delusions of reference. With ideas, you can be persuaded that the ideas, like people plotting to hurt you, aren't true. When you can't be convinced that the ideas aren't true, they're called delusions of reference.

There have been periods of delusions of reference in my life where my brain is convinced that what it heard is true and I wouldn't listen to reason. I've never had the kind of delusion of reference where you think characters are speaking to you through the TV.

If you Google "good therapy ideas of reference", there's a little information on the Good Therapy web site.

[Soupe du jour]

Hi why98. I'll post the link on your behalf. It's at Blog Therapy, Therapy, Therapy Blog, Blogging Therapy, Therapy,..

I think the ideas of reference are ones many experience. The article emphasizes that it can be at both ends (low or high self esteem). I suppose most are influenced by life experiences, though not just "nurture", perhaps also "nature". Unless they become more serious "delusions of reference" which may need medications to help, I think therapy (either way) is helpful. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) would likely be particularly effective as it helps challenge cognitive distortions and work through past influences for certain ways of feeling and thinking.

Nature and nurture were fairly kind to me, in terms of self esteem. Yet I do feel grounded enough not to have excessively high esteem for my abilities, etc. Certainly bipolar depression and mania have knocked it down or lifted it, at times, and even reached delusional levels, at its worst. I can certainly also see other mental health issues causing delusional issues. Severe anxiety, PTSD, unipolar depression, and other struggles listed in the DSM-5, from somatic disorders to others.

[why98]

Thanks for posting that link, Soupe. My counselor has given me behavioral tips for dealing with this. My self esteem has risen greatly throughout the years. It can never be as high as I'd like unless I'm manic. Still working on that.

[*Beth*]

This is interesting: Ideas and Delusions of Reference in Bipolar Disorder

[why98]

Originally Posted by BethRags

This is interesting: Ideas and Delusions of Reference in Bipolar Disorder

That's a great article. Now I'm better equipped to talk to my doc about my experiences. Thanks, @BethRags.

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks for this thread why98

[why98]

Originally Posted by Soupe du jour

Hi why98. I'll post the link on your behalf. It's at Blog Therapy, Therapy, Therapy Blog, Blogging Therapy, Therapy,..

I think the ideas of reference are ones many experience. The article emphasizes that it can be at both ends (low or high self esteem). I suppose most are influenced by life experiences, though not just "nurture", perhaps also "nature". Unless they become more serious "delusions of reference" which may need medications to help, I think therapy (either way) is helpful. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) would likely be particularly effective as it helps challenge cognitive distortions and work through past influences for certain ways of feeling and thinking.

Nature and nurture were fairly kind to me, in terms of self esteem. Yet I do feel grounded enough not to have excessively high esteem for my abilities, etc. Certainly bipolar depression and mania have knocked it down or lifted it, at times, and even reached delusional levels, at its worst. I can certainly also see other mental health issues causing delusional issues. Severe anxiety, PTSD, unipolar depression, and other struggles listed in the DSM-5, from somatic disorders to others.

It's nice to hear that nature and nurture were kind to you! Have you tried DBT? It's like CBT but with an Eastern philosophy flavor. Lots of mindfulness. I took a workshop on it years ago but have forgotten much of what I learned, it was so long ago.

[Soupe du jour]

Originally Posted by why98

It's nice to hear that nature and nurture were kind to you! Have you tried DBT? It's like CBT but with an Eastern philosophy flavor. Lots of mindfulness. I took a workshop on it years ago but have forgotten much of what I learned, it was so long ago.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with DBT. I was sent to many Intensive Outpatient Programs and they always seemed to want all women to do DBT, regardless of diagnosis. It was a "woman's program". Not sure why men didn't get DBT. Anyway, I do still value some of the DBT coping tools. However, I mostly just mentioned CBT because it more intensely challenges cognitive distortions. I think that's particularly helpful for anxiety and surely self-esteem issues, too. Catastrophising, black & white thinking, etc.

[MickeyCheeky]

So Sorry for what you've been through! Please Do not give up! i have never heard of this before but i think i can relate to having low self-esteem at least. Hugs. i agree with the other wise and wonderful posters about thanking you all for posting this thread and for posting the article as well. i suppose i'd need to work on my self-esteem as well. Perhaps it's just not that easy though. Be Safe. Love. Be Kind. Sending many Safe, warm hugs to ALL of you, @why98, your Families, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!