[LillyAnn]

I have a daughter who has been difficult from a very early age - rages that lasted hours, mood swings and violent. She could change at a moments notice with no reason.

By the time she was 8 she was seeing a P-doc and dx'd as ADD, ODD and depression. Through the years we have had to change meds numerous times. When the meds are correct she is a happy, outgoing, social, funny and vivacious person.

She stopped being violent towards us (her family) about 4 years ago but, to control how she feels she began "cutting" herself. This has been addressed numerous times by her P-doc and therapist.

Currently: she is 16 and in a Psychiatric Facility (in-patient). She "cut" her leg up pretty bad. The P-doc at the facility believes her previous dx of ADD, ODD and depression really fit under the Bipolar category (not definite) and are not separate issues and her cutting has become an addiction.

As a very worried and concerned parent I have agreed to allow them to start her on Lithium (last night). I am concerned about her future and the affects of Lithum as well as most of the other mood stabilizers.

I want my happy, outgoing, funny, vivacious child back and not a child who is zoned out or sedated.

I am hoping someone here has had an experience with what we are dealing with and could give me some insight or advice.

[Kim P.]

Originally Posted by LillyAnn

I have a daughter who has been difficult from a very early age - rages that lasted hours, mood swings and violent. She could change at a moments notice with no reason.

By the time she was 8 she was seeing a P-doc and dx'd as ADD, ODD and depression. Through the years we have had to change meds numerous times. When the meds are correct she is a happy, outgoing, social, funny and vivacious person.

She stopped being violent towards us (her family) about 4 years ago but, to control how she feels she began "cutting" herself. This has been addressed numerous times by her P-doc and therapist.

Currently: she is 16 and in a Psychiatric Facility (in-patient). She "cut" her leg up pretty bad. The P-doc at the facility believes her previous dx of ADD, ODD and depression really fit under the Bipolar category (not definite) and are not separate issues and her cutting has become an addiction.

As a very worried and concerned parent I have agreed to allow them to start her on Lithium (last night). I am concerned about her future and the affects of Lithum as well as most of the other mood stabilizers.

I want my happy, outgoing, funny, vivacious child back and not a child who is zoned out or sedated.

I am hoping someone here has had an experience with what we are dealing with and could give me some insight or advice.

Hi LillyAnn,

I have a 17 year old son. He's Bipolar, ADD, ODD, and substance abuser. He refuses treatment. He spent a year (age 16) in a youth detention center for assaultive behavior. He was released after 10 months, back living with us, assaultive again and now 17. He's been in county jail for just over a week. I cannot get him to try any meds. He's failing at home, school, with friends. His psychologist feels he's better off without any meds, but I'm not sure. What type of a life does he have in jail. I'd be interested to hear how your daughter does with the new medications. Fondly, Kim

[gravyssugar]

Originally Posted by Kim P.

Hi LillyAnn,

I have a 17 year old son. He's Bipolar, ADD, ODD, and substance abuser. He refuses treatment. He spent a year (age 16) in a youth detention center for assaultive behavior. He was released after 10 months, back living with us, assaultive again and now 17. He's been in county jail for just over a week. I cannot get him to try any meds. He's failing at home, school, with friends. His psychologist feels he's better off without any meds, but I'm not sure. What type of a life does he have in jail. I'd be interested to hear how your daughter does with the new medications. Fondly, Kim

I, too, have a 17 year old son that is bipolar and ADD. He was placed on Lithium 2 years ago and he repsonded very well to treatment. This lasted until this past summer. He wouldn't take his meds as he should as he said he didn't like how it made him feel. He is now on Abilify and seems to do well with that medication although, he is suffering greatly academically and has had a few problems with the law. He will soon be 18 and has the credits of a sophomore, now I am looking for options to have him 'graduate/get GED' on time. He's very immature and doesn't seem to care that he is behind in school.
Tracie

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by Kim P.

Hi LillyAnn,

I have a 17 year old son. He's Bipolar, ADD, ODD, and substance abuser. He refuses treatment. He spent a year (age 16) in a youth detention center for assaultive behavior. He was released after 10 months, back living with us, assaultive again and now 17. He's been in county jail for just over a week. I cannot get him to try any meds. He's failing at home, school, with friends. His psychologist feels he's better off without any meds, but I'm not sure. What type of a life does he have in jail. I'd be interested to hear how your daughter does with the new medications. Fondly, Kim

Hi Kim P
I'm sorry that you are having such a difficult time with your son!

The substance abuse is probably the most malignant "cancer" here, as it provokes the other issues. Do you know how long he has been using and what he uses? Is his drug addictions/abuse currently being effectively dealt with? How long has he been seeing the psychologist? If he saw the same psychologist before he went to jail, I'd have to say---maybe change psychologists to get a good response.

I think it's important to try to nip this in the bud before he turns 18 and faces adult penalties. The sad part is that jail and prison is never rehabilitative; it's just punitive, and the mental health treatment is for crap.

How are YOU holding up with this? You ever see a therapist yourself so that you can work with all of these extremely frustrating issues? A T can probably help guide you more and give you some insight into things your son is experiencing and help you cope.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by LillyAnn

I have a daughter who has been difficult from a very early age - rages that lasted hours, mood swings and violent. She could change at a moments notice with no reason.

By the time she was 8 she was seeing a P-doc and dx'd as ADD, ODD and depression. Through the years we have had to change meds numerous times. When the meds are correct she is a happy, outgoing, social, funny and vivacious person.

She stopped being violent towards us (her family) about 4 years ago but, to control how she feels she began "cutting" herself. This has been addressed numerous times by her P-doc and therapist.

Currently: she is 16 and in a Psychiatric Facility (in-patient). She "cut" her leg up pretty bad. The P-doc at the facility believes her previous dx of ADD, ODD and depression really fit under the Bipolar category (not definite) and are not separate issues and her cutting has become an addiction.

As a very worried and concerned parent I have agreed to allow them to start her on Lithium (last night). I am concerned about her future and the affects of Lithum as well as most of the other mood stabilizers.

I want my happy, outgoing, funny, vivacious child back and not a child who is zoned out or sedated.

I am hoping someone here has had an experience with what we are dealing with and could give me some insight or advice.

Ack. I'm happy you don't just sit back and take whatever it is they tell you without investigating yourself! Good for you!! Your kinda a rare bird these days, as far too many parents give no thought to medicating their kids without assuring that they really need it.

I would get a second opinion with an unaffiliated PSYCHOLOGIST. The psychologist wouldn't be biased by their hockney opinions and reports. He also wouldn't be basing his diagnosis off of what drugs respond to what symptoms.What worries me here (primarily) is their method of assessment. They should be able to diagnose a mental health disorder by diagnostic skill; not basing it on response or lack of response to meds! That's pretty sloppy work IMO, and with medication you want to make sure it's indicated, especially in a still developing young person.

What are your thoughts on the unaffiliated second-opinion idea?
Hang in there!!!!

[musikcrazy]

I am also a 'cutter'. I started as a teenager and it is VERY difficult to break. Cutters feel an emotional release when cutting and you almost get a 'high' from the endorphins that are released.
It definitely sounds like bipolar because in my experience everyone thought I was just ADD and depressed (mania often appears to be add), but FINALLY after YEARS of misdiagnose, I am doing much better.
In my experience, Geodon has worked the best for me. I am suprised that the doc's started her on Lithium first in this day and age. I take Lamictal and Geodon and it has worked for me. SOmetimes it takes many tried before they find out what works.
Cutting is often associated with sexual abuse in young women (it is in my case as well), so are you aware of any abuse that may have occured?
Therapy is a MUST for any cutter, so that's good that she is going.
Cutting is very much so an acting out behavior, so she is trying to tell people how much she hurts. Does she have other ways to express herself that are healthy? For me, it's music (piano, violin, singing, etc)
Some kids do well with art, writing,etc. Is thee a healthy hobby in her life that you can encourage? That always helped me.
Being involved in church also has been a tremendous help. I credit making it through my teenage years without knocking myself off to God and my youth ministers.
I will pray for you and your daughter because I believe that God can help and that you find doctors that are the very best for your daughter. I know cutting is very disturbing (and enbarrassing when youa re older), so I hope that she gets the help she needs to stop now. Hang in there and know that there is ALWAYS hope, no matter how bad it gets.

Originally Posted by LillyAnn

I have a daughter who has been difficult from a very early age - rages that lasted hours, mood swings and violent. She could change at a moments notice with no reason.

By the time she was 8 she was seeing a P-doc and dx'd as ADD, ODD and depression. Through the years we have had to change meds numerous times. When the meds are correct she is a happy, outgoing, social, funny and vivacious person.

She stopped being violent towards us (her family) about 4 years ago but, to control how she feels she began "cutting" herself. This has been addressed numerous times by her P-doc and therapist.

Currently: she is 16 and in a Psychiatric Facility (in-patient). She "cut" her leg up pretty bad. The P-doc at the facility believes her previous dx of ADD, ODD and depression really fit under the Bipolar category (not definite) and are not separate issues and her cutting has become an addiction.

As a very worried and concerned parent I have agreed to allow them to start her on Lithium (last night). I am concerned about her future and the affects of Lithum as well as most of the other mood stabilizers.

I want my happy, outgoing, funny, vivacious child back and not a child who is zoned out or sedated.

I am hoping someone here has had an experience with what we are dealing with and could give me some insight or advice.

[LillyAnn]

Originally Posted by Simcha

Ack. I'm happy you don't just sit back and take whatever it is they tell you without investigating yourself! Good for you!! Your kinda a rare bird these days, as far too many parents give no thought to medicating their kids without assuring that they really need it.

I would get a second opinion with an unaffiliated PSYCHOLOGIST. The psychologist wouldn't be biased by their hockney opinions and reports. He also wouldn't be basing his diagnosis off of what drugs respond to what symptoms.What worries me here (primarily) is their method of assessment. They should be able to diagnose a mental health disorder by diagnostic skill; not basing it on response or lack of response to meds! That's pretty sloppy work IMO, and with medication you want to make sure it's indicated, especially in a still developing young person.

What are your thoughts on the unaffiliated second-opinion idea?
Hang in there!!!!

Thank you, Simcha.

What bothered me about the Hospital (have since learned it's common practice due to what insurance companies will or won't cover ) is I found out most every teen in there was dx'd bipolar and on Lithium.

Her current pdoc stands by her belief ("until the day she dies") my DD IS NOT bipolar and DOES NOT meet criteria. For the moment since my DD is doing well on the Lithum we are going to leave her on it.

Her pdoc was quite blunt with her: if she does not make changes with therapy regarding her actions and behaviour and better coping skills she has a very good possibility of carrying the diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder BUT due to her age she cannot be dx'd with BPD right now. She was strongly encouraged to take full advantage of the therapy being offered which includes one on one with the therapist who does DBT and also her therapist does group therapy with teenage girls.

Originally Posted by musikcrazy

I am also a 'cutter'. I started as a teenager and it is VERY difficult to break. Cutters feel an emotional release when cutting and you almost get a 'high' from the endorphins that are released.
It definitely sounds like bipolar because in my experience everyone thought I was just ADD and depressed (mania often appears to be add), but FINALLY after YEARS of misdiagnose, I am doing much better.
In my experience, Geodon has worked the best for me. I am suprised that the doc's started her on Lithium first in this day and age. I take Lamictal and Geodon and it has worked for me. SOmetimes it takes many tried before they find out what works.
Cutting is often associated with sexual abuse in young women (it is in my case as well), so are you aware of any abuse that may have occured?
Therapy is a MUST for any cutter, so that's good that she is going.
Cutting is very much so an acting out behavior, so she is trying to tell people how much she hurts. Does she have other ways to express herself that are healthy? For me, it's music (piano, violin, singing, etc)
Some kids do well with art, writing,etc. Is thee a healthy hobby in her life that you can encourage? That always helped me.
Being involved in church also has been a tremendous help. I credit making it through my teenage years without knocking myself off to God and my youth ministers.
I will pray for you and your daughter because I believe that God can help and that you find doctors that are the very best for your daughter. I know cutting is very disturbing (and enbarrassing when youa re older), so I hope that she gets the help she needs to stop now. Hang in there and know that there is ALWAYS hope, no matter how bad it gets.

Musikcrazy, I am so very glad your doing better and I hope you continue with your positive improvements

I understand what you have said about cutting, my daughter has said the same thing as well has her pdoc. She has never been abused in any way. Unfortunately, she seems to have inherited some of the genetic, DNA (or whatever you want to call it) that seems to be on my side of the family. Yes, there are mental health problems that appear to run in my family.

Her pdoc is standing by the diagnosis that was made years ago by a different pdoc: ADD, ODD, and depression. The pdoc gave my daughter examples of conversations that can happen with somone with ADD and ODD and the possible parent responses. Both my daughter and myself could completely relate to every single thing her pdoc said.

The cutting is a coping mechanism which we are all hoping will stop as she learns better ways to cope through her therapy. The Lithum will stay for the moment, it helps decrease suicidal thoughts and appears to help control the urge to cut.

Our goal right now is to keep her in therapy doing DBT and group. She has been told by her pdoc she is at risk for a dx of Borderline Personality Disorder unless she makes changes. She is still young enough for changes to happen. She is 16 and BPD is not dx'd until they are at least 18 or a little older.

I would just like to say thank you to each of you for being here to help

[agony007]

lillyann,

i am so glad that your daughter is responding well to the lithuim, that's so important when trying a new med. finding one that works sometimes takes several tries. i am Dx with bipolar, and my friend who is a nurse went over some of the ADD criteria and it's seems i fit that bill too. i was on lithuim it did not help me, now i am on seroquel for the bipolar, and ambien to sleep. i truly hope that everything works out well for your daughter. i too am concerned about everyone in the hospital Dx'ed with bipolar and on lithuim, that's really strange.

[agony007]

Kim P,

maybe your son is using drugs to self medicate himself because the meds he's been on are not working. did the psychologist mention anything like that? i am surprised that she just wants him off all meds, giving the fact that he has a history of using. i hope he can get on the right path soon, jail is not a good place for anyone to rehabilitate.has he even been in inpatient treatment? wishing you all the best,

agony

[Direction]

Originally Posted by LillyAnn

I am hoping someone here has had an experience with what we are dealing with and could give me some insight or advice.

Experience only from the otherside really...I can offer reassurance...keep doing what you are doing...no one picked up on me at 13...hid it for over 20 years...

It is in the open...I think that is a really good thing...