Borderline VS. Anti Social

What do you think is the deciding factor when deciding if you are borderline or anti-social?

There are some psychologists/psychiatrists, Kernberg, Yoeman & Clarkin to name a few, who believe that people organized at the Borderline level of functioning often exhibit many of the traits of anti-social PD, paranoid PD, and malignant narcissim. They developed a treatment for BPD called Transference Focused Psychotherapy. Don't read their text if you want to get distressed and frustrated, because the picture they paint of us is not a pretty one.

Once BPD was considered a death sentence. Then it was hypothesized that some could age out of this disorder. However, now with Marsha coming out of the closet, it seems those who know and treat the disorder, have the disorder. I do exhibit some anti-social traits but I just don't think the diagnosis fits. I guess if you spend too much time reading about pathology you find you find you have everything.

These disorders can overlap at times. You could be Borderline with antisocial traits or the other way around. But here is my conclusion:

The Borderline craves self-harmony and connection with others.

The Psychopath craves power and control.

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Two very different goals.

I am social, but I like my alone time as well. I would say I am often asocial, but not anti-social. Although I don't feel like I fit in, I want to sometimes, other times I'm not interested.

Anti-social as referred to in this thread has nothing to do with enjoying time alone or with others. This thread is about comparing two personality disorders whose symptoms sometimes overlap.

Antisocial personality disorder
Sociopathic personality; Sociopathy; Personality disorder - antisocial

Antisocial personality disorder is a mental health condition in which a person has a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others. This behavior is often criminal.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

The causes of antisocial personality disorder are unknown. Genetic factors and child abuse are believed to contribute to the development of this condition. People with an antisocial or alcoholic parent are at increased risk. Far more men than women are affected. The condition is common in people who are in prison.

Fire-setting and cruelty to animals during childhood are linked to the development of antisocial personality.

Some people believe that psychopathic personality (psychopathy) is the same disorder. Others believe that psychopathic personality is a similar but more severe disorder.

Symptoms

A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

Be able to act witty and charming

Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions

Break the law repeatedly

Disregard the safety of self and others

Have problems with substance abuse

Lie, steal, and fight often

Not show guilt or remorse

Often be angry or arrogant
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Borderline personality disorder
Personality disorder - borderline

Borderline personality disorder is a condition in which people have long-term patterns of unstable or turbulent emotions, such as feelings about themselves and others.

These inner experiences often cause them to take impulsive actions and have chaotic relationships.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

The causes of borderline personality disorder (BPD) are unknown. Genetic, family, and social factors are thought to play roles.

Risk factors for BPD include:

Abandonment in childhood or adolescence

Disrupted family life

Poor communication in the family

Sexual abuse

This personality disorder tends to occur more often in women and among hospitalized psychiatric patients.

Symptoms

People with BPD are often uncertain about their identity. As a result, their interests and values may change rapidly.

People with BPD also tend to see things in terms of extremes, such as either all good or all bad. Their views of other people may change quickly. A person who is looked up to one day may be looked down on the next day. These suddenly shifting feelings often lead to intense and unstable relationships.

Other symptoms of BPD include:

Fear of being abandoned

Feelings of emptiness and boredom

Frequent displays of inappropriate anger

Impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, or shoplifting

Intolerance of being alone

Repeated crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing

Yes, thanks, I understand.
But some don't realize the distinction between anti-social and asocial, so I hoped my post showed that asocial is a different animal.

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a·so·cial (-sshl)
adj.
1. Not social: "Bears are asocial, secretive animals" (David Graber).
2. Avoiding or averse to the society of others; not sociable: "It's not that you're so asocial, but a man who likes people doesn't wind up in the Antarctic" (Saul Bellow).

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

asocial [eɪˈsəʊʃəl]
adj
1. avoiding contact; not gregarious
2. unconcerned about the welfare of others
3. hostile to society or social practices
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
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"Asocial" and "anti-social" do seem to overlap.

The 2nd definition appears to be anti-social.

I agree.

I don't think Anti-social is a good name for the said personality disorder.To me anti-social sounds like a person who avoids people because others make them uncomfortable.

I often get confused as I understand that the two disorders can overlap a lot. I was diagnosed BPD a few years ago, yet recently once again I was diagnosed ASPD because I show a lot of the signs of it. Mostly because I have a distinct inability to empathize with my actions and have no desire to make new friendships with people. I'll talk to a brick wall because it passes the time, but becoming close to people my therapist says I generally show little interest because I drop people from my life on a regular basis. So I often get confused on where my BPD ends and my ASPD begins.

And by the same token. I have half the people I know completely agree with my ASPD dx and half the people I know not agree with the dx at all. This includes treatment people at my treatment place. It's just become rather confusing. I don't see the benefit of empathy nor making new friendships. I have few friends and that's fine by me. If they wrong me, I get rid of them.

My treatment facility won't treat my ASPD because apparently it's untreatable.

Michael, our resident Psychopath (and might I add a very good writer) would know more about this issue.I thought I had ASPD because there are some people in my life I really do wish would die. If they were dead, it would make me feel better. Relieved. However, I do care about the feelings of the people. I enjoy making others feel better. I don't have any interest in lying or manipulating people for fun. I can be manipulative but that's only because I feel great pain and I need to do what I can to help get through the pain.

Read both the disorders of BPD and ASPD and see which category you feel is your primary diagnosis. The thing with personality disorders is that most people have a primary one and traits from all the others.

We're a fun group.

Thanks.

I had psychological testing done at my current facility and I came up as both BPD and ASPD (as well as my bipolar and EDNOS).

When I asked my therapist why, she said that my manipulation, difficulty empathizing, and remorse fall outside the lines of that of BPD. While BPD is my primary diagnosis, the ASPD symptoms, they said, were at a range that could not be ignored. However, they are only directly treating the BPD at treatment.

I have no idea. When they've approached me on the issues stated above, I don't understand where I'm entirely wrong. However, I don't particularly like having ASPD on my chart, because my old therapist has now dropped me as a client because she said she doesn't treat ASPD patients. :\