[ChaoticSymphony]

I notice I can be having a normal day then get reminded of something then sit there and dwell on it for forever if I let myself...key words let myself. Like why can't we just get over stuff? Waaah things aren't going my way I guess I should go write a 100 page novel about it...no I should probably just suck it up like the rest of the world does. I don't really do that, in fact I usually internalize things and am just learning how to express them through groups like this. I can't help but get annoyed that some people are just whiners, like nothing can be right...ever. I want to shake them. It's really pathetic to see it for me. I don't know if it is the fact that I never got the chance to have a healing ground, if that my logical mind is just that much easier for me to follow (not always of course) or if maybe I don't belong here.

I know secrets keep you sick but I also know that if I allowed all the secret thoughts out that I risk the possibility of going backwards and indulging in all of that stuff all over again. I understand that bpd has added significant problems to my past especially and to my present but on the same token it's really not that bad being me. I assume most of the whiners also struggle big with depression...I only get depressed when circumstantial things happen and even when I am depressed I don't know I am depressed because everything just feels numb...numb means no hurt, no happiness but more importantly no hurt. I like no hurt I don't know I guess I am ranting now.

I can only speak for myself, but when I complain about something, it's usually because it really bothers me and has been a long time coming. A lot of my internal soliloquies involve trying to bully myself out of being bothered by things. Like, "Stop being such a pansy. Things have been worse, and they can always get a lot worse than they are." But while it can keep me from speaking up or help me to suppress the feelings for longer periods of time, it doesn't make me feel better. Either by design or experience, I'm not built to hold onto happiness. I don't wallow in self-pity, but I also try to face reality and myself as best I can.

I really think it depends on the person and his/her mindset. I think it's important to take ownership and responsibility, and deciding that we're not going to give in or be victims, no matter what happens or has happened to us.

[nicoleb2]

Originally Posted by ChaoticSymphony

I notice I can be having a normal day then get reminded of something then sit there and dwell on it for forever if I let myself...key words let myself. Like why can't we just get over stuff? Waaah things aren't going my way I guess I should go write a 100 page novel about it...no I should probably just suck it up like the rest of the world does. I don't really do that, in fact I usually internalize things and am just learning how to express them through groups like this. I can't help but get annoyed that some people are just whiners, like nothing can be right...ever. I want to shake them. It's really pathetic to see it for me. I don't know if it is the fact that I never got the chance to have a healing ground, if that my logical mind is just that much easier for me to follow (not always of course) or if maybe I don't belong here.

I know secrets keep you sick but I also know that if I allowed all the secret thoughts out that I risk the possibility of going backwards and indulging in all of that stuff all over again. I understand that bpd has added significant problems to my past especially and to my present but on the same token it's really not that bad being me. I assume most of the whiners also struggle big with depression ...I only get depressed when circumstantial things happen and even when I am depressed I don't know I am depressed because everything just feels numb...numb means no hurt, no happiness but more importantly no hurt. I like no hurt I don't know I guess I am ranting now.

The point of therapy is to be able to talk about all of those things we have bottled up. Going back to talk about it is not a bad thing, it helps to get through it, and to try not to repeat it in the future.

As for " I assume most of the whiners also struggle big with depression" - I can only speak for myself here when I say, I am not whining. I am trying to work through my issues, and if you only deal with circumstantial depression and on top of that have the attitude that people are whining, you'll never be able to understand what life is really like for someone who deals with depression 24/7

[ChaoticSymphony]

I am grateful I don't understand it and it isn't my main goal in life to figure it out either. I am not talking about those type of whiners, I am talking about the self-indulgent whiners. Respectfully if you are one of them then I can see this bothering you...I am doing a bit of soul searching right now and trying to identify my issues on my own, when I see someone whining cuz bf didn't call me back blah blah whine whine and call it a bpd moment when I know I have done that before but I know I was being a self serving little brat then I call them whiners No need to get upset, carry on somewhere else more helpful

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by morsecoded

I can only speak for myself, but when I complain about something, it's usually because it really bothers me and has been a long time coming. A lot of my internal soliloquies involve trying to bully myself out of being bothered by things. Like, "Stop being such a pansy... " Either by design or experience, I'm not built to hold onto happiness.

Beautifully put. I'm trying to move to a more positive baseline, seems like I could get more done starting from there. And instead of that negative self talk, what? Start? Continue? My T says "it's about consistency" - I don't really have a record of successes building on successes like he does. My mother would knock me down everytime I felt good about myself - she didn't want me to get a "big head". Now what?

Originally Posted by hankster

Beautifully put. I'm trying to move to a more positive baseline, seems like I could get more done starting from there. And instead of that negative self talk, what? Start? Continue? My T says "it's about consistency" - I don't really have a record of successes building on successes like he does. My mother would knock me down everytime I felt good about myself - she didn't want me to get a "big head". Now what?

Thank you! I really relate to what you've said here. My mother felt I'd become arrogant if she praised me (she told me this much later - obliquely). Nothing I did was ever good enough for my own mother, and she rarely praised me for anything. She held me to an entirely different standard from the rest of humanity, it seemed like. She praised other children in front of me all the time for things that I would never have been praised for.

I'm also trying to establish a more positive baseline, but it's very difficult to do so alone, especially with people fulfilling my greatest fears all too often.

You definitely seem like you're headed in the right direction.

[Perna]

If self-indulgent whining helps one, I say go for it; won't make friends and influence other people positively perhaps but. . .

Technically I'm not here to judge other people and what they do in their lives and, as an adult, I can move away from them or kick them out of my space if I don't like what I experience when I am around them. I don't find whining about them or my experience helpful in that regard, unless my whining drives them away, LOL.

But, seriously, that happening (their being driven away) actually hurts me because then I don't ever learn who is annoying versus what I like/don't like about my own behavior and how to look at things in a different fashion so everything isn't quite so annoying in the first place. Everyone just gets driven away by habit instead of intent.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

self-indulgent brat? to me, that's a very strong phrase. For me, as a borderline myself, I might call myself that, too. But I am also aware that there are kinder ways to address this, to myself and also to others.

Instead of "stop being a pansy" (namecalling and putdown) I can say, "You are probably strong enough, Billi, to deal with this and if you're not, you will still be okay. the worst case scenario usually does not happen..." etc.

Instead of calling myself a "self-indulgent brat", I can call myself "someone who feels things very strongly and thinks very fastidiously and perhaps may need to pick her battles".

But that's me. I love big words. lol

But the point: being kinder to myself.

And judging ourselves and others for "whining" does not help. I think we whine because we are insecure. No matter.

And some of us are depressed and have less ability to regulate ourselves. Some of us have never even heard of DBT. I was in MUCH WORSE SHAPE before I was ready to try DBT. And before I was ready to validate myself. And before I became more aware of my behavior.

thanks,

Billi

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by billi_leli

Instead of "stop being a pansy" (namecalling and putdown) I can say, "You are probably strong enough, Billi, to deal with this and if you're not, you will still be okay. the worst case scenario usually does not happen..." etc.

THANKS BILLI!! that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, only I really could not think of the words!

Sorry, guys, I hate myself. I have a hard time saying nice things to myself when I'm trying to get results.

Originally Posted by billi_leli

Instead of "stop being a pansy" (namecalling and putdown) I can say, "You are probably strong enough, Billi, to deal with this and if you're not, you will still be okay. the worst case scenario usually does not happen..." etc.

Instead of calling myself a "self-indulgent brat", I can call myself "someone who feels things very strongly and thinks very fastidiously and perhaps may need to pick her battles".

But that's me. I love big words. lol

But the point: being kinder to myself.

And judging ourselves and others for "whining" does not help. I think we whine because we are insecure. No matter.

And some of us are depressed and have less ability to regulate ourselves. Some of us have never even heard of DBT. I was in MUCH WORSE SHAPE before I was ready to try DBT. And before I was ready to validate myself. And before I became more aware of my behavior.

thanks,

Billi

...I am not averse to "big words". That has nothing to do with anything. However, my idea of being kind to myself - when I'm capable of that - does not reach so far as thinking nice things, etc. It's more like trying not to self-sabotage, cut myself, or commit suicide. Having others criticize how I treat myself or talk to myself does not affect it in the least.

[unaluna]

Self-sabotage is a habit of mine. 2 things - someone posted in Psychotherapy an article about Shame and the Attachment Disordered Child that I think relates to what is gng on here. 2. I have this "thing" where I'll go "Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!" and slap myself on the head - I thought it was from The Simpsons, but the other night, I saw D ick Van Dyke do it on an old re-run. I told T about it - I once did this when we were hugging and just about strangled him, poor guy!

[likewater]

Has anybody read, nonviolent communication? It talks about labels like stupid or lazy.

[cboxpalace]

chaoticsymphony wrote - I notice I can be having a normal day then get reminded of something then sit there and dwell on it for forever if I let myself...key words let myself. Like why can't we just get over stuff?

Well for many they have no support system or friends, other than the forum. They also have low self esteem, they also have ineffective coping mechanisms.

Waaah things aren't going my way I guess I should go write a 100 page novel about it...no I should probably just suck it up like the rest of the world does. I don't really do that, in fact I usually internalize things and am just learning how to express them through groups like this.

It's a support forum, and many people are going to write about their issues when they need support. So while you "waah and internalize" their expressing and externaizing which I'd say is far healthier.

I can't help but get annoyed that some people are just whiners, like nothing can be right...ever. I want to shake them. It's really pathetic to see it for me.

Since you don't have complete access to their life.. this would be your opinion and a judgement about them that your making.. These whiners as you refer to them, is it possible their trying to get better, trying to understand what's wrong with them and why.. they are taking a healthy approach to their illness, while you choose to internalize things which you've admitted...

I don't know if it is the fact that I never got the chance to have a healing ground, if that my logical mind is just that much easier for me to follow (not always of course) or if maybe I don't belong here.

I think that you belong here, and I think you could have a lot to offer others. I think, what you need to determine is how effective you want to be in helping others. I would agree with you that it seems like you do internalize things, and my guess is if you really examined yourself you’d find a lot hurt and pain which then comes out as hostility. You do seem to be a hostile person. The question then is where does that hostility come from? I’d say expressing frustrations is a good thing, and I think that you’d agree with that because below you acknowledge secrets keep you sick. I think we also need to be aware of many people with bpd don’t have any close friends, and this forum is the only place they can express their frustrations. If people come here to ***** and complain etc.. cool.. If that’s what they need to do in order to move on ..that’s a good thing.. After all this is a support forum..

I know secrets keep you sick but I also know that if I allowed all the secret thoughts out that I risk the possibility of going backwards and indulging in all of that stuff all over again.

You know secrets keep you sick…. Yet you don’t allow them out for fear you’d go backwards. You admit above that you internalize things, and wonder if you belong here. I “think” the whole purpose of having a support forum is so you can let those things out in a safe environment and not be judged, attacked or made fun of… not so you go backwards, but that you can learn and progress forwards, and have better understanding of who you are.

I understand that bpd has added significant problems to my past especially and to my present but on the same token it's really not that bad being me.

It’s this same pattern of where you recognize that you have “significant” problems, and yet it’s not bad being you. So… are you here to express yourself to learn and get better or criticize others for trying to get better, or are you content with the “it’s not bad being me”. If you’re content with the “it’s not bad being me” then I guess you’d have to ask yourself, “why are you here?”
　

I assume most of the whiners also struggle big with depression…

Why refer to them as whiners? What are you looking to accomplish?? Do you think calling someone a whiner is going to be antagonistic or protagonistic?
　
　

I only get depressed when circumstantial things happen and even when I am depressed I don't know I am depressed because everything just feels numb...numb means no hurt, no happiness but more importantly no hurt. I like no hurt.

You really can’t compare your depression to others, because yours is circumstantial. Regardless, the fact that you get depressed and become numb is an ineffective coping mechanism to deal with the hurt at hand. I’d rather not hurt.. So I’ll feel numb. You’re right there is no pain in feeling numb, the problem is the issue which is causing the hurt isn’t being dealt with, and has stated above by you.. You internalize it. Now, lets for a moment you took the time to express this in a forum and someone then told you to stop your *****ing and whining etc and get over it… Are you going to feel supported/validated or are you going to feel attacked?? If

I am grateful I don't understand it and it isn't my main goal in life to figure it out either.

But you do want to figure it out as it relates to you and your life? I’ll assume the answer is yes, because if it’s no… Then is there really any point for you being here??

Hopefully something in here was of help!!

[MDDBPDPTSD]

Originally Posted by billi_leli

self-indulgent brat? to me, that's a very strong phrase.

And judging ourselves and others for "whining" does not help. I think we whine because we are insecure. No matter.

And some of us are depressed and have less ability to regulate ourselves.
thanks,

Billi

I agree that self-indulgent brat is a very strong and negative phrase.
Judging ourselves does not help.
Personally I am a whiner. I do not like that I whine. Even so, I do it. In my case, I do not do it because I am insecure. (I am insecure though.) The reason I do it is because of the pain I feel. I am almost always in some sort of pain. I do feel pain with depression. I am not numb. And I have depression ALL the time. If I did not have pain, then I would not whine.

I do have a decreased ability to regulate myself. No one in my family seems to understand that. Not being understood is difficult too. On top of the pain I already feel, I must endure the judgmental statements of my family, who is supposed to love me. They seem to think that my illness is just because I am lazy or attention seeking. I am neither of those things. I am legitimately actually hurting.

I am very tired of hurting. I am tired of waking up to face another day of pain. Yet i do, everyday. I am not saying whining is pleasant to be around, but considering the life I have, whining is a reasonable response. In fact, whining is probably the most innocuous response.

Maybe there are more beneficial responses. I hope so. I hope they exist and I hope I can find and learn them. If I did not have to listen to my own whining, what a relief that would be!

[ChaoticSymphony]

boxcutter, I appreciate you taking the time to break down everything like that...the time must be nice

[amaviena]

I like hurt and sickness. I appreciate every emotion because often I don't feel anything at all. DBT has taught me this. I didn't even realize I had been implementing it in everything I do/process.

[Forgive77]

Originally Posted by ChaoticSymphony

I notice I can be having a normal day then get reminded of something then sit there and dwell on it for forever if I let myself...key words let myself. Like why can't we just get over stuff? Waaah things aren't going my way I guess I should go write a 100 page novel about it...no I should probably just suck it up like the rest of the world does. I don't really do that, in fact I usually internalize things and am just learning how to express them through groups like this. I can't help but get annoyed that some people are just whiners, like nothing can be right...ever. I want to shake them. It's really pathetic to see it for me. I don't know if it is the fact that I never got the chance to have a healing ground, if that my logical mind is just that much easier for me to follow (not always of course) or if maybe I don't belong here.

I know secrets keep you sick but I also know that if I allowed all the secret thoughts out that I risk the possibility of going backwards and indulging in all of that stuff all over again. I understand that bpd has added significant problems to my past especially and to my present but on the same token it's really not that bad being me. I assume most of the whiners also struggle big with depression...I only get depressed when circumstantial things happen and even when I am depressed I don't know I am depressed because everything just feels numb...numb means no hurt, no happiness but more importantly no hurt. I like no hurt I don't know I guess I am ranting now.

I reply to this not having read the other posts. What I want to say is that you were me 2 years ago. I had five kids, and still do, was going to nursing school, and felt that others on my husband's side of the family were dramatic little whiners....and compared to me they are. My sister in-law actually thinks that her husband works two jobs because he does his teaching by day...and coaches soccer...which he really loves by night. Not how I see it. I see it as he teaches so he can coach. She also thought she worked two jobs because she did one job during the day, and helped out her boss at night occasionally with other things at night. It was the same freaking job. I had no empathy get a freaking grip Get a grip. What I've learned...despite my disease etc., some people were coddled and enabled through life, and I wasn't, and I have to 'try' to empathize and show some sense of empathy because there are just people out there who are dramatic, and think they have it hard even though they lived in a perfect little bubble their whole lives, and have the nerve to still complain about it. Makes me want to smack them....but I've just learned to say nothing, and not enable their dramatic b.s. Some people are just weaker, or their level of stress is their highest level, and no where near ours. So we have to give sympathy or empathy. But everyone in my husband's family bought into it. It was a load of crap to me because I was a single mom working a day job, and going to school while raising my daughter as a single mom at 20 - 23 years of age. Suck it up is what I always thought. So you had one freaking baby....people do it every single day. What are you whining about? I've just had to learn that people can only rise to the amount of stress they've been exposed to in their life. One kid, working, and going to school seems okay to me, and if you can't do it what the heck is wrong with you? But I have to find ways to empathize with her...blah...blah..blah....make me want to throw up. But that is just some people's deal. We have to find ways to empathize. Because there are just babies out there that can't handle real life. And I mean real life that nothing happens like high school musical.